Spanish Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 12 hours ago, Gaspode said: This certainly needs a club statement first thing tomorrow morning - everyone needs to know where the club stands and whether these threats of administration are genuine or simply leaked to out the potential buyers under pressure. I could wait (fairly patiently) for the deal to be completed without getting too upset but this is a whole new ball game.... if it is tactic, telling us sort of undermines it doesnt it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornwallRam Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 24 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said: Under their loan deal I don’t think MSD gets to buy the club for 30m. I think they have to pay market value (not that that’s easy to quantify these days) Have a read through the charge documents at Companies House Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 8 hours ago, Mckram said: I’m now clinging to the hope that MSD will buy us out of this absolute mess. Anyone got Jeff Bezos number? I’d take the Amazon Arena right now. What, we're going to relocate to Manaus in Brazil? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BathRam72 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 7 hours ago, JfR said: If that is the case, would it also be the case that Mel would not be able to do anything other than wait for the transaction to complete? If BZG are insisting that they have every intention of closing the transaction and that the money has been sent, then wouldn't it mean that we're obligated to sell to them? If Mel were to now instead start looking for other parties, one would assume that there could be the potential of legal ramifications from BZG as this deal wouldn't have been fulfilled. You can't sell something you've already sold. I agree with your whole post, this bit worries me however. If Mel is touting another potential buyer, that would suggest that money has not been exchanged and the deal is not as DONE as everyone is led to believe. Or as you say there would be legal ramifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean (hick) Saunders Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 My coffee is still black, my toast is still brown and takeover still hanging. Happy Thursday everyone.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinhectoring Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 10 minutes ago, CornwallRam said: Have a read through the charge documents at Companies House Uhhh? He gave them an option to buy the club and the academy and the rest for the value of the loan?????? Or are you just saying that is the effect of the charge over the club’s shares Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIllyD Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 41 minutes ago, Gaspode said: You’re missing the point (or don’t understand) that it’s not Mel’s responsibility to pay the wages - it’s the club that is responsible (the owner and the club are separate entities). Mel has been putting his own money in in order to keep the club afloat but with the takeover being delayed, Mel would be foolish to keep putting money in with almost no chance of getting it repaid (it would also take any pressure off the potential owners to complete the deal). However much you dislike Mel (and we all agree he’s made some huge mistakes during his tenure), it’s only his personal money being put into the club that has kept us afloat over the past couple of seasons. He’s now got to the point where he doesn’t want to/can’t keep doing that and so is selling up. The club is now (allegedly) taking a bridging loan to cover the wages - the alternative is most certainly administration as it’s still spending way more than it earns.... Any why is the club spending way more than it earns ? Who is responsible for bringing in high wage earners and spending millions on transfer fees chasing the PL dream. Wigan had a problem last year when the owners came in, then didn't have enough funds or didn't want to spend them to cover the outgoings and the rest is history. What we appear to have now is the same, albeit on a larger time scale. I would argue that he has a moral responsibility to pay the wages, given he is mainly responsible for where we are today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Let's say it is £12m we need to find down the back of the sofa to get us through to the end of the season - transfer fees or savings on wages. Who do you sell? Goalkeepers Marshall Roos Carson Ravas Mitchell Defenders Byrne Wisdom te Wierik Evans Davies Forsyth Buchanan Malone McDonald Midfielders Bielik Bird Knight Sibley Shinnie Holmes JBrown Watson Wingers Lawrence Jozwiak Ibe Whittaker Jozefzoon Mitchell-Lawson Gordon Forwards Waghorn Kazim Marriott Trialist Stretton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaspode Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 20 minutes ago, Spanish said: if it is tactic, telling us sort of undermines it doesnt it? It does (but I was ranting at the time and so not thinking rationally)....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 6 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said: Uhhh? He gave them an option to buy the club and the academy and the rest for the value of the loan?????? Or are you just saying that is the effect of the charge over the club’s shares I'll give you a clue. If you don't pay the mortgage on your house, what happens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, BIllyD said: Any why is the club spending way more than it earns ? Who is responsible for bringing in high wage earners and spending millions on transfer fees chasing the PL dream. Wigan had a problem last year when the owners came in, then didn't have enough funds or didn't want to spend them to cover the outgoings and the rest is history. What we appear to have now is the same, albeit on a larger time scale. I would argue that he has a moral responsibility to pay the wages, given he is mainly responsible for where we are today. Due to Covid. I'm certain we'd be posting a profit in the accounts for 20/21 otherwise. Wages should now be at a sustainable level in non-Covid times, less than 100% of income. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 I doubt you can fund a promotion bid without parachute payments without making a loss. Sure, some teams did it, Billy did it, but the mind set of the players and wages paid were different, they were hungry to succeed, wanted to succeed for each other. Last team of ours like that was Clough/Mac 1. That fine margin of loss started all this, chasing the dream with money. Sometimes high wages and transfer fee’s aren’t enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucksRam Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Always good to wake up with texts from mates asking "what the hell is going on at Derby?" I wish I knew ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaspode Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, BIllyD said: Any why is the club spending way more than it earns ? Who is responsible for bringing in high wage earners and spending millions on transfer fees chasing the PL dream. Wigan had a problem last year when the owners came in, then didn't have enough funds or didn't want to spend them to cover the outgoings and the rest is history. What we appear to have now is the same, albeit on a larger time scale. I would argue that he has a moral responsibility to pay the wages, given he is mainly responsible for where we are today. Simple really- Mel is a fan and wanted the club to get in the PL....There were very few dissenting voices when we were splashing the cash and I’m pretty sure Mel would have done things differently if he could have foreseen the issues we are having now (though even then COVID would have screwed up any plans). Easy to take potshots with the benefit of hindsight..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 1 minute ago, Boycie said: I doubt you can fund a promotion bid without parachute payments without making a loss. Sure, some teams did it, Billy did it, but the mind set of the players and wages paid were different, they were hungry to succeed, wanted to succeed for each other. Last team of ours like that was Clough/Mac 1. That fine margin of loss started all this, chasing the dream with money. Sometimes high wages and transfer fee’s aren’t enough. We made a £12.5m loss in that season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Just now, Ghost of Clough said: We made a £12.5m loss in that season We’ll, there you go then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinhectoring Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 7 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: I'll give you a clue. If you don't pay the mortgage on your house, what happens? if the debt is 125 and the house is worth 200, it is not the case that on default the bank gets the property for 125. 75 needs to be returned to the borrower. Broadly speaking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 10 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: Let's say it is £12m we need to find down the back of the sofa to get us through to the end of the season - transfer fees or savings on wages. Who do you sell? Goalkeepers Marshall Roos Carson Ravas Mitchell Defenders Byrne Wisdom te Wierik Evans Davies Forsyth Buchanan Malone McDonald Midfielders Bielik Bird Knight Sibley Shinnie Holmes JBrown Watson Wingers Lawrence Jozwiak Ibe Whittaker Jozefzoon Mitchell-Lawson Gordon Forwards Waghorn Kazim Marriott Trialist Stretton The club doesn't get the choice. It's not a seller's market. The answer to the question is whoever is desirable to any club that has disposable income. There are not many of the former and even fewer of the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIllyD Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 6 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: Due to Covid. I'm certain we'd be posting a profit in the accounts for 20/21 otherwise. Wages should now be at a sustainable level in non-Covid times, less than 100% of income. Certain based upon what ? It would need to be a big turnaround for that to happen, I would also assume the sacking of PC and his team for example would have to been minimal cost. The legal fee for the court battle as well, I'm sure that wasn't very much. Rooney's wages, all covered by Bet32 ? I could go on, but I would be very surprised if we were anywhere near a profit, neither of us know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIllyD Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 6 minutes ago, Gaspode said: Simple really- Mel is a fan and wanted the club to get in the PL....There were very few dissenting voices when we were splashing the cash and I’m pretty sure Mel would have done things differently if he could have foreseen the issues we are having now (though even then COVID would have screwed up any plans). Easy to take potshots with the benefit of hindsight..... That's not a potshot, that's simple planning. You take a business, you project your cash flow and you monitor it, spending against what you are prepared to put in. COVID, yes will have an impact, but Mel has been looking to offload the club prior to this, it's not the first time the players haven't been paid is it ?? Mel being a fan and fans not voicing their concerns is not a mitigating reason for where the club is today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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