Abu Derby County

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

The longer tihs is going the less I am convinced it is going to happen

[TomG]

3 minutes ago, EtoileSportiveDeDerby said:

The longer tihs is going the less I am convinced it is going to happen

[G STAR RAM]

2 hours ago, CornwallRam said:

If the takeover goes through and the stadium is included, the EFL will take note of the valuation of the stadium in the transaction. If it is below the value that Mel used in his FFP wheeze, they may consider re-opening the case. The value of other assets and liabilities are irrelevant in this case. If the headline figure is £60m it will increase pressure (with insistence from Gibson) for them to act. That does not mean they will, or that such an action could not be successfully defended, but to claim that it is not possible is simply wrong.

The new owners are not buying the stadium, they will be buying the shares of DCFC.

If Mel is selling the stadium too it is up to him what price he sells it for and that has absolutely no bearing on its value at June 2018, when it was independently valued by an expert.

There is not a cat in hells chance the EFL will be revisiting the stadium sale given the findings of the IDC.

[GenBr]

2 hours ago, CornwallRam said:

If the takeover goes through and the stadium is included, the EFL will take note of the valuation of the stadium in the transaction. If it is below the value that Mel used in his FFP wheeze, they may consider re-opening the case. The value of other assets and liabilities are irrelevant in this case. If the headline figure is £60m it will increase pressure (with insistence from Gibson) for them to act. That does not mean they will, or that such an action could not be successfully defended, but to claim that it is not possible is simply wrong.

The three amigos purchased the entire club for £1 - does that mean the stadium is only worth a quid? Obviously not. 

The same applies here. Mel can sell the club and stadium for whatever he likes. It has absolutely no bearing on the valuation of the stadium. 

[CornwallRam]

 

 

8 minutes ago, GenBr said:

The three amigos purchased the entire club for £1 - does that mean the stadium is only worth a quid? Obviously not. 

The same applies here. Mel can sell the club and stadium for whatever he likes. It has absolutely no bearing on the valuation of the stadium. 

The difference is that it has since been used as way to get around FFP. The stadium valuation is now an issue because Mel made it so. It will probably come to nothing as the stadium will appear in the transaction at the correct figure and be offset by liabilities to get the lower value, but the EFL will certainly have a look.

[i-Ram]

3 hours ago, CornwallRam said:

If the takeover goes through and the stadium is included, the EFL will take note of the valuation of the stadium in the transaction. If it is below the value that Mel used in his FFP wheeze, they may consider re-opening the case. The value of other assets and liabilities are irrelevant in this case. If the headline figure is £60m it will increase pressure (with insistence from Gibson) for them to act. That does not mean they will, or that such an action could not be successfully defended, but to claim that it is not possible is simply wrong.

The valuation of PP really can’t be questioned anymore - the EFL have conceded that point. They, or anyone else for that matter, are really  in no position to challenge a valuation confirmed by two industry leading concerns (Jones Lang Lasalle and Lambert Smith Hampton).

The Bin Zayed Group has been involved in a huge number of multi-million investment projects. I am sure that if they pay £60m for the club inc. PP, they (or their very clever Accountants) can structure the Balance Sheet of Derventio Holdings to show the asset at it’s confirmed 2018 valuation. The EFL have no jurisdiction over what value a football club sells for; it is only worth what someone is willing to pay.  They can only decide if the entity buying is ‘fit and proper’.

[kevinhectoring]

we've been told the delay is that the Sheikh is negotiating with Dell. Whatever Dell agrees will probably need to go through an internal credit committee  and I doubt they will schedule a special meeting for us. So maybe that's the delay. But MM and the Sheikh will have known the range of possible outcomes and so I can't believe the Sheikh has a basis to walk away because of Dell.

Wonder if there are also negotiations ongoing with 32red   Would like to be itk on that one 

The £60m is surely just for the company that owns the club. It does not tell us anything about the rest of the deal (loans repaid, assumed, consultancy agreements, stadium arrangements, deferred payments, options etc).  I can't see how we would ever know what the overall deal involves - too much of it is private. But you'd assume they will structure the stadium aspects to avoid further FFP problems

This is going to happen (so long as some tax accountant does not spot some horrible problem) and it will be wonderful 

[Archied]

7 hours ago, CornwallRam said:

 

 

The difference is that it has since been used as way to get around FFP. The stadium valuation is now an issue because Mel made it so. It will probably come to nothing as the stadium will appear in the transaction at the correct figure and be offset by liabilities to get the lower value, but the EFL will certainly have a look.

Yep what’s the value of a stadium that nobody is allowed to pay to enter since the beginning of the year and for god knows how long going forward?

[CornwallRam]

6 hours ago, i-Ram said:

The valuation of PP really can’t be questioned anymore - the EFL have conceded that point. They, or anyone else for that matter, are really  in no position to challenge a valuation confirmed by two industry leading concerns (Jones Lang Lasalle and Lambert Smith Hampton).

The Bin Zayed Group has been involved in a huge number of multi-million investment projects. I am sure that if they pay £60m for the club inc. PP, they (or their very clever Accountants) can structure the Balance Sheet of Derventio Holdings to show the asset at it’s confirmed 2018 valuation. The EFL have no jurisdiction over what value a football club sells for; it is only worth what someone is willing to pay.  They can only decide if the entity buying is ‘fit and proper’.

You can say it as many times as you like, but it is still incorrect. The EFL can reopen the investigation into the valuation if new information comes to light.

[CornwallRam]

8 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

The new owners are not buying the stadium, they will be buying the shares of DCFC.

If Mel is selling the stadium too it is up to him what price he sells it for and that has absolutely no bearing on its value at June 2018, when it was independently valued by an expert.

There is not a cat in hells chance the EFL will be revisiting the stadium sale given the findings of the IDC.

We don't know what the new owners are buying. There are at least 5 different companies that make up DCFC in a wider sense. I'd say that it's unlikely that they won't buy the academy, so they are unlikely just to be buying shares in DCFC. They might or might not buy the stadium.

[GenBr]

27 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

You can say it as many times as you like, but it is still incorrect. The EFL can reopen the investigation into the valuation if new information comes to light.

And you can keep saying this as many times as you want, but it is still incorrect.

As said previously whatever Mel sells the club for has absolutely zero bearing on the value of the stadium. If you want to elaborate on what you think the new information is that could cause them to launch a new investigation then please do so. 

[G STAR RAM]

24 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

We don't know what the new owners are buying. There are at least 5 different companies that make up DCFC in a wider sense. I'd say that it's unlikely that they won't buy the academy, so they are unlikely just to be buying shares in DCFC. They might or might not buy the stadium.

Regardless of whether they do or do not buy the stadium there is absolutely no reason for the EFL to revisit the stadium revaluation issue.

[Boycie]

I wonder if Dell are being asked to be stadium sponsors?

The Dell stadium.  Sounds familiar?

[CornwallRam]

20 minutes ago, GenBr said:

And you can keep saying this as many times as you want, but it is still incorrect.

As said previously whatever Mel sells the club for has absolutely zero bearing on the value of the stadium. If you want to elaborate on what you think the new information is that could cause them to launch a new investigation then please do so. 

The value he sells the club for is only relevant in publicising the deal. The relevant part is the value that the stadium is sold (if it is sold) for within that transaction. It is a bona fide test of the true commercial value of Pride Park Stadium. Thus, it is new information.

The EFL reserve the right to revisit any judgements when new information comes to light - we know that because they originally agreed to the valuation, but then chose to charge us when Gibson commissioned his own valuation - which was ridiculously amateurish, but gave them an excuse. That does not mean that anything will happen. My point is that it is possible that it could.

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, CornwallRam said:

You can say it as many times as you like, but it is still incorrect. The EFL can reopen the investigation into the valuation if new information comes to light.

I don't know whether you are right about the EFL being able to re-open the investigation, but given that they have decided not to appeal the IDC decision in this respect, I would guess you are wrong and that they would not legally have a leg to stand on if they tried to.

What you are getting completely wrong is the revaluation issue, as you do not seem to undestand how they work.

The stadium was valued sometime prior to June 2018 and would have been valued using factors that were relevant at that point in time. If the value has subsequently decreased it does not alter the valuation at the point it was revalued.

What you're saying is akin to me going back to the person I sold my house to 10 years ago and saying that they now owe me more money because the value of the house has increased. 

[G STAR RAM]

8 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

The value he sells the club for is only relevant in publicising the deal. The relevant part is the value that the stadium is sold (if it is sold) for within that transaction. It is a bona fide test of the true commercial value of Pride Park Stadium. Thus, it is new information.

The EFL reserve the right to revisit any judgements when new information comes to light - we know that because they originally agreed to the valuation, but then chose to charge us when Gibson commissioned his own valuation - which was ridiculously amateurish, but gave them an excuse. That does not mean that anything will happen. My point is that it is possible that it could.

From memory a factor in the price of the stadium valuation was money generated per seat.

So if valued now, it would be much lower than the value in 2018.

That does not alter the value of the stadium as at 2018, it just means the value has decreased since then.

[Ghost of Clough]

12 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

From memory a factor in the price of the stadium valuation was money generated per seat.

So if valued now, it would be much lower than the value in 2018.

That does not alter the value of the stadium as at 2018, it just means the value has decreased since then.

It was a cost per seat (about £3000). The stadium still has the same capacity so should still hold a similar value

[G STAR RAM]

3 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

It was a cost per seat (about £3000). The stadium still has the same capacity so should still hold a similar value

But that 'cost' would have been derived from income generation surely?

[G STAR RAM]

15 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

But that 'cost' would have been derived from income generation surely?

Ignore this. Thinking back to the findings, I think it was compared to cost per seat for new stadiums.

[Ghost of Clough]

16 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

But that 'cost' would have been derived from income generation surely?

It's used to calculate the build cost of the stadium. Income isn't a consideration. They'd consider things such as quality of facilities to arrive at the c£3000 figure -