Curtains Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, GboroRam said: I don't have anything bad to say about Mel. He's supported with money and given time to some (maybe not all, and maybe not unlimited time) of the managers he has appointed. I think it's harsh to say he's the root of our failures, or he's the main issue. But I can't hand on heart say he's the solution to our problems. Whatever his intentions are/were, we've found ourselves at the foot of the table and struggling. The long term project I'm fully behind, but I also can see that it's not worked the way Mel wanted. Maybe new investment and new ownership will bring the results we all want. Mel's hasn't, that's the harsh fact. I’ll say it then. He’s the root of our failures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, GboroRam said: I don't have anything bad to say about Mel. He's supported with money and given time to some (maybe not all, and maybe not unlimited time) of the managers he has appointed. I think it's harsh to say he's the root of our failures, or he's the main issue. But I can't hand on heart say he's the solution to our problems. Whatever his intentions are/were, we've found ourselves at the foot of the table and struggling. The long term project I'm fully behind, but I also can see that it's not worked the way Mel wanted. Maybe new investment and new ownership will bring the results we all want. Mel's hasn't, that's the harsh fact. Won’t get an argument from me , as I say I’m pro Mel was just answering the question re cocu had been treated badly, for me that’s the only bit I could find fault with and cocu could fairly have a gripe with?♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 40 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: 1) That shouldn't be a barometer of whether something was a mistake or not. 2) The person at the top has all the information when it comes to finances and admin. I think the fans have a right to get excited about big money signings because they trust that it's within our budget and won't result in, for example, the sale of the stadium to get round FFP rules. 3) The person at the top should always be held accountable. His heart is clearly in the right place, but if I were the owner and I'd left the club in a worse state than when I found it (which I believe it is), I wouldn't fall back on the excuse of "I meant well". I would expect reasonable levels of criticism. 4) It was deemed socially acceptable to say that Cocu was a nice bloke who cared but was ultimately not good enough. Why can't people say the same of Mel without being accused of being ungrateful? FWIW, I still think the club would benefit from keeping him on as an advisor. The new owner will be a complete rookie when it comes to football ownership. Mel, as I've made clear, has made a lot of mistakes. There's something to be said for having someone on the board who can say "I did X and it resulted in Y". It could be as trivial as warning the new owner against labelling a manager "Our Alex Ferguson", or as financially significant as saying "Don't spend £10 million on replacing players who are merely injured". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hathersage Ram Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 2 hours ago, i-Ram said: Football is a results based business. The owner of a football club is under more pressure to secure results than probably any other Captain of Industry. What exactly has Mel achieved over the last 6 years? I take my hat off to him for wanting to invest and give it his very best shot, but on most of the important metrics we are worse off today than we were 6 years ago. I severely doubt the OWNER of a football club is under more pressure than a Captain of Industry. The owner is not subject to terms of employment and criteria for success/failure. Fans can not sack Mel. Unlike the MD of a company who is at the perils of shareholders to succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ram1964 Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Hathersage Ram said: I severely doubt the OWNER of a football club is under more pressure than a Captain of Industry. The owner is not subject to terms of employment and criteria for success/failure. Fans can not sack Mel. Unlike the MD of a company who is at the perils of shareholders to succeed. Md, high earnings, employment contract,pension scheme,probably share incentive package with no risk of own money and a fat pay off should you fail.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 If Mel delivers a sale of the club which potentially propels us into the upper reaches of the top flight after overseeing quite a few years of consistently pushing for promotion, whilst improving the training facilities to Premier League standard, whilst promoting youth football to the effect we are the top club in England to giving us one of the most memorable evenings in our recent times in going away and beating Leeds Utd whilst attracting Frank Lampard & Wayne Rooney I wouldn't honestly say that's a bad job....would you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said: If Mel delivers a sale of the club which potentially propels us into the upper reaches of the top flight after overseeing quite a few years of consistently pushing for promotion, whilst improving the training facilities to Premier League standard, whilst promoting youth football to the effect we are the top club in England to giving us one of the most memorable evenings in our recent times in going away and beating Leeds Utd whilst attracting Frank Lampard & Wayne Rooney I wouldn't honestly say that's a bad job....would you? Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 Who says these new likely owners are rich ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 15 minutes ago, Hathersage Ram said: I severely doubt the OWNER of a football club is under more pressure than a Captain of Industry. The owner is not subject to terms of employment and criteria for success/failure. Fans can not sack Mel. Unlike the MD of a company who is at the perils of shareholders to succeed. MDs don’t have tens of thousands of people obsessively following their company and voicing their opinions at the workplace and on social media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hathersage Ram Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, ram1964 said: Md, high earnings, employment contract,pension scheme,probably share incentive package with no risk of own money and a fat pay off should you fail.? And the Owner can pay himself what he wants, pension scheme, etc with no shareholders to satisfy. Contracts of employment come with terms, ownership of the company doesn't. So your point is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinhectoring Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, Hathersage Ram said: I severely doubt the OWNER of a football club is under more pressure than a Captain of Industry. oh really? A OWNER (MM): you pour millions and millions into the club you love, to see your competitors owned by billionaires (eg Wolves, Villa) leave you in the dust. Then Covid strikes and wipes out half your revenues, so you face the prospect of even more cash outlay. YOUR OWN MONEY B Captain of Industry: in good times you rake it in through lavish share option schemes. In bad times your shareholders lose money. And if you're sacked you get a massive pay-off !! B please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hathersage Ram Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said: oh really? A OWNER (MM): you pour millions and millions into the club you love, to see your competitors owned by billionaires (eg Wolves, Villa) leave you in the dust. Then Covid strikes and wipes out half your revenues, so you face the prospect of even more cash outlay. YOUR OWN MONEY B Captain of Industry: in good times you rake it in through lavish share option schemes. In bad times your shareholders lose money. And if you're sacked you get a massive pay-off !! B please It's only pressure if you don't have the money. MD's are judged on success or failure and affects their earning potential Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 25 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said: If Mel delivers a sale of the club which potentially propels us into the upper reaches of the top flight after overseeing quite a few years of consistently pushing for promotion, whilst improving the training facilities to Premier League standard, whilst promoting youth football to the effect we are the top club in England to giving us one of the most memorable evenings in our recent times in going away and beating Leeds Utd whilst attracting Frank Lampard & Wayne Rooney I wouldn't honestly say that's a bad job....would you? Bloody hell Scarlet, I nearly self-asphyxiated trying to read that! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: Bloody hell Scarlet, I nearly self-asphyxiated trying to read that! ? I was a bit mean with the punctuation I have to say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ram1964 Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, Hathersage Ram said: And the Owner can pay himself what he wants, pension scheme, etc with no shareholders to satisfy. Contracts of employment come with terms, ownership of the company doesn't. So your point is? If the owner pays himself what he wants ,he isn't any wealthier it's his own money already?contracts of employment protect the employed, self ownership offers you no protection what you going to do sack yourself. I run and own my own Ltd company, always the last to get paid or going without ,no employment contract all investment my own risk and / or money often subsiding business against my own home,personal loans. Any busines owner shares more responsibility ,risks than an employee with protected working rights ,guaranteed wages,holiday pay,no personal financial risk, severance pay,sick pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 37 minutes ago, Hathersage Ram said: I severely doubt the OWNER of a football club is under more pressure than a Captain of Industry. The owner is not subject to terms of employment and criteria for success/failure. Fans can not sack Mel. Unlike the MD of a company who is at the perils of shareholders to succeed. I hope your doubt is not causing you too much anguish. The point I was making is that football fans are always demanding instant results, and are never slow to vocalise their feelings, or type them on social media. There is much greater realism and expectation level from shareholders in almost all other industries/sectors as to what is realistically achievable over a period of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk Thrust Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 37 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said: If Mel delivers a sale of the club which potentially propels us into the upper reaches of the top flight after overseeing quite a few years of consistently pushing for promotion, whilst improving the training facilities to Premier League standard, whilst promoting youth football to the effect we are the top club in England to giving us one of the most memorable evenings in our recent times in going away and beating Leeds Utd whilst attracting Frank Lampard & Wayne Rooney I wouldn't honestly say that's a bad job....would you? And breeeeeath........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roymac Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 I see we've let Stoke have the Watney Cup after 47 years..... maybe clearing space in the Pride Park trophy cabinet for the silverware about to be won by the new owners & their manager??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 Anyone ever considered that without his investment, we may already be in League One. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 4 hours ago, Derbados said: What’s the point in Mel sticking around? particularly in another decision making capacity, I don’t get it? He’s tried, he’s failed and we need a change of direction and fresh ideas. Surely the new owners could hire an experienced DOF? My major, major concern is player recruitment, it’s an area Mel has never addressed and it’s been an absolute car crash throughout his tenure. Millions spent on overpriced dross, countless times of watching young, talented and reasonably priced players heading to other clubs and doing the business (Ollie Watkins anyone?) If this means it’s just Mel making decisions with someone else’s money then I’ll guarantee we’ll still be stuck in the same old championship merry go round for years to come, probably with another giant wage bill, and a failed succession of managers. Just let it go Mel Best post on this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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