Why are Derby getting all the toughest fixtures at once

[Jourdan]

In what universe would we get 13 points from the next 15 and people still be calling for Cocu’s head?

It simply wouldn’t happen.

Cocu deserves better from the fans, does he?

How can the fans be blamed? We are constantly told we have no perspective, we have no patience, we have no tolerance, we are ignoring the circumstances.

Mel has alluded to Cocu putting himself under pressure and Cocu has apparently spoken to the media and said he is under pressure and our start hasn’t been good enough.

Yet the fans are being unreasonable?

You only have to look at how desperate Cocu’s expressions are on the touchline. He knows he is fighting for his livelihood and he expects more from himself and the team.

If you asked him, it sounds like he’d agree with those of us that are saying he has to do better and this hasn’t been good enough.

[David]

5 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

I really can't see anything happening,no matter what the results are,until the takeover either happens or doesn't.

I'd be surprised though if any teams fan base wouldn't be debating the managers future whilst they sit in the relegation zone after 10 or do matches on the back of an extended poor run of games,whatever the circumstances surrounding them.

I do think that the gaffers position is in a precarious place at the moment if a takeover is going ahead as I'm sure a new owner would be looking for a bright start to their tenure and attracting positive attention to their new acquisition.

Now if we were flying at the minute,the impressions would be a lot more favourable but sadly we are not.

 

The writing is on the wall now for Cocu anyway, new owners will always want their own man, if this goes through I wouldn't be surprised if he's gone by Christmas.

Feel for the guy so much, what he's been dealt with you couldn't make up, remained classy throughout. 

Understand that a managers position will always be debated, just find the "Sack" and "Next Manager" threads incredibly disrespectful. 

 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

5 minutes ago, David said:

The writing is on the wall now for Cocu anyway, new owners will always want their own man, if this goes through I wouldn't be surprised if he's gone by Christmas.

Feel for the guy so much, what he's been dealt with you couldn't make up, remained classy throughout. 

Understand that a managers position will always be debated, just find the "Sack" and "Next Manager" threads incredibly disrespectful. 

 

I agree and the "sack Cocu" thread was particularly badly titled.

I don't think anyone can argue he has been anything other than dignified and honourable in the face of the horrendous hand he has constantly been dealt.

He probably hasn't helped himself with his tactics and team selections though which allied to the ongoing background and financial problems have increased the pressure on himself of late.

Sometimes situations just don't seem to work out despite everyone's good intentions and this would appear to be one of them which is sad for all concerned.

 

[Mick Brolly]

12 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

You only have to look at how desperate Cocu’s expressions are on the touchline. He knows he is fighting for his livelihood and he expects more from himself and the team

I hope we stick with him a bit longer but I don't think he'll struggle for food and a roof over his head. 

[David]

10 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

In what universe would we get 13 points from the next 15 and people still be calling for Cocu’s head?

It simply wouldn’t happen.

dcfcfans.uk

10 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Cocu deserves better from the fans, does he?

Yes

10 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

How can the fans be blamed? We are constantly told we have no perspective, we have no patience, we have no tolerance, we are ignoring the circumstances.

Easily. 

10 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Mel has alluded to Cocu putting himself under pressure and Cocu has apparently spoken to the media and said he is under pressure and our start hasn’t been good enough.

Of course he is under pressure, any manager not picking up wins will be under pressure, but that doesn't take away from the fact it's been a very difficult run of fixtures this month. As the post I quoted earlier mentioned, we all said it when the fixtures were announced. 

10 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Yet the fans are being unreasonable?

Yes.

10 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

You only have to look at how desperate Cocu’s expressions are on the touchline. He knows he is fighting for his livelihood and he expects more from himself and the team.

Nobody has ever claimed he isn't, of course he knows the results must come and is incredibly frustrated. When you look at Cardiff and Rooney putting it just wide at the end. Jozwiak's wrongly disallowed goal at Forest. Buchanan effort off the line at Bournemouth. 

It's not all on the manager. Those 3 incidents would have resulted in 6 extra points which would put is in 14th which still wouldn't be good enough for some.

10 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

If you asked him, it sounds like he’d agree with those of us that are saying he has to do better and this hasn’t been good enough.

Of course. How could anyone disagree with that? 

[Rammy03]

9 minutes ago, David said:

When you look at Cardiff and Rooney putting it just wide at the end. Jozwiak's wrongly disallowed goal at Forest. Buchanan effort off the line at Bournemouth. 

It's not all on the manager. Those 3 incidents would have resulted in 6 extra points which would put is in 14th which still wouldn't be good enough for some.

For me that's just clutching at straws, we simply haven't been good enough. Yes the outcomes could have been different but I wouldn't say they should have been. We need to do more across 90 minutes, Cocu has to get more out of them.

[David]

1 minute ago, Rammy03 said:

For me that's just clutching at straws, we simply haven't been good enough. Yes the outcomes could have been different but I wouldn't say they should have been. We need to do more across 90 minutes, Cocu has to get more out of them.

Didn't say they should have been, just pointing out the fine margins that you can't put everything on the managers shoulders. The players need to accept some responsibility. 

As for not being good enough, last month has seen a lot of improvement in what has been a difficult run of fixtures. 

We're actually unbeaten in 3 now if you wanted to look at it positively, unbeaten in 3 tough games and we only conceded 5 goals. Win on Wednesday and we can start building more confidence to be more clinical. 

[Jourdan]

6 minutes ago, David said:

dcfcfans.uk

Yes

Easily. 

Of course he is under pressure, any manager not picking up wins will be under pressure, but that doesn't take away from the fact it's been a very difficult run of fixtures this month. As the post I quoted earlier mentioned, we all said it when the fixtures were announced. 

Yes.

Nobody has ever claimed he isn't, of course he knows the results must come and is incredibly frustrated. When you look at Cardiff and Rooney putting it just wide at the end. Jozwiak's wrongly disallowed goal at Forest. Buchanan effort off the line at Bournemouth. 

It's not all on the manager. Those 3 incidents would have resulted in 6 extra points which would put is in 14th which still wouldn't be good enough for some.

Of course. How could anyone disagree with that? 

If we got 13 points from the next 15, everyone would be delighted. There might be a few murmurs of ‘It’s not Mac 1...’ and ‘If Martin was still with us, we’d have 15 points from 15’ but I think on the whole we’d all be enjoying winning again.

How can the fans be accused of lacking perspective If their views actually align with what the manager is thinking?

If you ask most fans on this forum, their frustrations with Cocu do not stem from the last six games, but from the long term, the overall picture.

But in all those recent games, the opposition also can count themselves unlucky. Norwich were denied by 2-3 world class saves from Marshall and a wonderful last ditch tackle from Byrne. Cardiff hit the woodwork twice. Bournemouth again were denied twice by Marshall and they also hit the post.

It’s only really Watford and Forest where you could argue the opposition got more than they deserved on the balance of play.

If we had six extra points and were three points from the play-offs, the majority of people would be saying that we have the perfect opportunity to kick on with the fixtures coming up.

Derby fans really aren’t as unreasonable as you are making out and Cocu is not so precious and delicate to need constantly protecting in such a way. He has been in football for over 30 years. He knows what to expect.

If the manager is coming out and saying it’s not good enough, surely that tells you that Derby fans are perfectly within reason to think so too?

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Derby fans really aren’t as unreasonable as you are making out and Cocu is not so precious and delicate to need constantly protecting in such a way. He has been in football for over 30 years. He knows what to expect.

If the manager is coming out and saying it’s not good enough, surely that tells you that Derby fans are perfectly within reason to think so too?

And what does it matter? This is a forum, we're not at the ground or even on Twitter/Insta. If things aren't going well and you go searching social media for things written would you really be surprised if there was bad things? No, how daft would you have to be, stop looking! But even so we are not the one's hiring and firing and most people on here haven't been making personal comments even when commenting on the football, the players and the manager.

If you don't want there to be comments why have a forum?

[David]

2 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

If we got 13 points from the next 15, everyone would be delighted. There might be a few murmurs of ‘It’s not Mac 1...’ and ‘If Martin was still with us, we’d have 15 points from 15’ but I think on the whole we’d all be enjoying winning again.

How can the fans be accused of lacking perspective If their views actually align with what the manager is thinking?

If you ask most fans on this forum, their frustrations with Cocu do not stem from the last six games, but from the long term, the overall picture.

But in all those recent games, the opposition also can count themselves unlucky. Norwich were denied by 2-3 world class saves from Marshall and a wonderful last ditch tackle from Byrne. Cardiff hit the woodwork twice. Bournemouth again were denied twice by Marshall and they also hit the post.

It’s only really Watford and Forest where you could argue the opposition got more than they deserved on the balance of play.

If we had six extra points and were three points from the play-offs, the majority of people would be saying that we have the perfect opportunity to kick on with the fixtures coming up.

Derby fans really aren’t as unreasonable as you are making out and Cocu is not so precious and delicate to need constantly protecting in such a way. He has been in football for over 30 years. He knows what to expect.

If the manager is coming out and saying it’s not good enough, surely that tells you that Derby fans are perfectly within reason to think so too?

Were you not around for the Gary Rowett tenure?

It's pretty difficult to respond to the rest of the post as you are arguing points I haven't even made. 

If you look back I have said that

1) Cocu is not beyond criticism

2) Cocu has made mistakes

3) Cocu is under pressure due to results

4) Cocu could have done better

BUT

It has been an incredibly tough run of fixtures which if you look, thats what this topic was about and on reading it was being dismissed as excuses. There has been a lot of difficult circumstances that Cocu has had to deal with, yet they are now brushed off as excuses which is incredibly unfair on the guy and ruins all kind of discussion.

I'm sure you are aware of them all without me repeating them, ANY manager would have struggled so it's no real surprise we are struggling whilst also being tasked with lowering the wage budget and bringing through academy players.

Cocu has been a classy guy throughout his tenure, I just wish some of the fans had a tiny amount of class he has when discussing his position. I just think he deserves a little bit more respect and if you want to disagree with that, feel free. 

Next manager threads whilst a manager is in place, will always be one of the most disrespectful topics on a fans forum. Nothing will ever change my mind on that regardless of my opinion on the manager in place.

[cheron85]

44 minutes ago, David said:

I'm sure you are aware of them all without me repeating them, ANY manager would have struggled so it's no real surprise we are struggling whilst also being tasked with lowering the wage budget and bringing through academy players.

This is the problem we have though - The Cocu Out brigade don't seem to understand context or have any perspective - They are 100% convinced that another manager would have done better and that manager also desperately wants to be Derby manager but is being kept out by Cocu

I'd like to know who this mysterious, magnificent Derby-mad manager is and why none of these guys seem to want to name him/her

[TomTom92]

3 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

This is the problem we have though - The Cocu Out brigade don't seem to understand context or have any perspective - They are 100% convinced that another manager would have done better and that manager also desperately wants to be Derby manager but is being kept out by Cocu

I'd like to know who this mysterious, magnificent Derby-mad manager is and why none of these guys seem to want to name him/her

I'd say that's unfair as a sweeping statement, I'm Cocu out but I also acknowledge that there's been injuries this season and a tough fixture list. That said in my opinion I think even with the two issues our form is sub par and another manager could be doing better even if that's only by 4-6 points extra. 

In regards to who could be doing better I'd personally have Cook and Howe on the shortlist for a start. I would suggest Warnock although he's currently in work but assuming he wasn't a lot of fans would be dead set against him because he doesn't play the beautiful game. Unfortunately the debate of the beautiful game versus the pragmatic approach will never be settled as 50% would rather see us play the right way even if we lose a few extra matches. The other half like myself couldn't give two hoots about much as long as Derby are getting the 3 points.  

There's no guarantee that any of them 3 would be doing better but I'd like to see one of them given the opportunity. After a season and 9 matches if someone doesn't rate the manager then I think in most parts that's a fair opinion. Others clearly do rate him after a season and 9 matches but the only way for us negative nancy's to be shut up is for Derby to win matches which we've done once in 9 attempts this season.

[Tyler Durden]

42 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

This is the problem we have though - The Cocu Out brigade don't seem to understand context or have any perspective - They are 100% convinced that another manager would have done better and that manager also desperately wants to be Derby manager but is being kept out by Cocu

I'd like to know who this mysterious, magnificent Derby-mad manager is and why none of these guys seem to want to name him/her

I was waiting for someone to post that. Impossible to prove or disprove unless you have a time machine and parachute another manager in at the start of the season then compare how he gets on comparitive to Cocu, best make it 5 managers actually to make it a balanced test. 

Or you're waiting for someone to put up names so you can then systematically poo poo each one, again without being able to prove that they would have struggled just as much as Cocu has. 

 

[cheron85]

2 hours ago, TomTom92 said:

Unfortunately the debate of the beautiful game versus the pragmatic approach will never be settled as 50% would rather see us play the right way even if we lose a few extra matches. The other half like myself couldn't give two hoots about much as long as Derby are getting the 3 points.  

Well this is what it boils down to for me - Having been a season ticket for a quarter century I very nearly gave up going under Rowett - I don't want to spend hundreds of pounds a year to watch dreary dullness however effective it might be

I prefer the style Cocu is going for and I think it's starting to bear fruit - We've been the better side for long periods against sides which finished above us last season (Cardiff and Forest), showed we can smash and grab (Norwich) and adapt our style and still play well (Bournemouth) - I think it's starting to come together and making a change now is daft

If we're still in the bottom three come the end of November I will probably have less patience

[cheron85]

2 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

I was waiting for someone to post that. Impossible to prove or disprove unless you have a time machine and parachute another manager in at the start of the season then compare how he gets on comparitive to Cocu, best make it 5 managers actually to make it a balanced test. 

That's my entire point...

The Cocu Out brigade are saying get rid of Cocu because he's rubbish - And saying that injuries and transfer embargos and lack of funds are inconsequential - Because he's rubbish

But to be able to ignore all of that there must be a baseline somewhere? A point of comparison which says the manager is the problem rather than other factors?