I think we need change of formation

[B4ev6is]

I think we need change of formation maybe 442 or 4141 but 4321 does not seem to work as it put us on the back foot from the off. I know huddersfield lot better in first half with our midfield did not know how to deal with us but once shinnie came off it went to bits. But it was good to see waghorn back nearly providing us with a point but not quite with Clark header hitting the post and Richard I cant spell first name lively maybe work well with waghorn or Lawrence upfront in the attacking role. But I would like us lift it up a couple more levels.

[Rammy03]

Why don't we just play 433, the formation Cocu said he would use when he got the job. We now have the personal to do it. This 5 at the back system just isn't giving us enough going forward and while we do look more solid, it's no good because we're still losing. 

[B4ev6is]

Just now, Rammy03 said:

Why don't we just play 433, the formation he said he would use when he got the job. We now have the personal to do it. This 5 at the back system just isn't giving us enough going forward and while we do look more solid, it's no good because we're still losing. 

I think formation we all agree on that needs change mate.

[Dethorn]

I personally like 3-1-4-2

using the wide men of the 4 to adjust the style - Byrne and Buchanan, Lawrence and Joswiak, perm one from six

but our indulgence of wingers and lack of strikers would not support that at the moment

bit maybe 

wisdom Evans clarke

bird

RWB/RM Knight Sibley LWB/LM

Waghorn Rooney/CKR/JHI

[FindernRam]

There is no point playing a system with wide men when:

a: They are incapable of hitting a decent cross

b: Even if they did there's no one to hit it to.

We need to fill the midfield and play through. 4-5-1. The front man being a holding play maker rather than a sriker.

[Gaspode]

It's a criticism I have of a lot of managers (particularly prevalent at international level) - they have a belief in the way that football should be played and the formation that they want to use and then try to squeeze players into that formation. It certainly seems to be what Cocu is doing at the moment and is probably why he's constantly tinkering with the matchhday squad.

There comes a time however when there needs to be a realisation that the players simply cannot deliver the type of football being requested of them (whether that's due to a lack of technique/ability or simply that the currently squad doesn't have what's needed). That's when the manger needs to look at what's available to him and try to get the most from them in their best positions, utilising whatever formation will allow that - that buys the time needed to address the deficiencies via transfer windows or bringing through young players who have been coached to play the desired way. 

Having a long-term vision is great and wanting to play a certain style of football is also fine - but if that's not delivering results, either the manager has to be pragmatic and forget his beliefs in the short-term or the manegr needs to be changed....

[Ambitious]

I don't mind the formation, really, it has made us much more competitive and we saw promising signs that it can be done right in the first half against Huddersfield. We played much higher up the pitch as a team and really that is the success behind this formation. You almost have to force yourself higher up the pitch to make the distance between the defenders and the striker(s) smaller so that you don't have many players isolated from the ball. 

I'm sure that he will probably go back to a back 4 with a fully fit squad: Bielik sitting deep with Bird, Shinnie, Knight, Sibley or Holmes as a two infront of him. Ibe, Lawrence, Waghorn and Jozwiak as the four infront of them. Davies has been excellent as a third CB, but I don't know if he's up to it in a two anymore. It seems to have helped having him there no end. 

If you're asking me what I would do until Forest, really, what I would do until Bielik is 100% then I would continue with 5 at the back. 

[Rampage]

3 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

I don't mind the formation, really, it has made us much more competitive and we saw promising signs that it can be done right in the first half against Huddersfield. We played much higher up the pitch as a team and really that is the success behind this formation. You almost have to force yourself higher up the pitch to make the distance between the defenders and the striker(s) smaller so that you don't have many players isolated from the ball. 

I'm sure that he will probably go back to a back 4 with a fully fit squad: Bielik sitting deep with Bird, Shinnie, Knight, Sibley or Holmes as a two infront of him. Ibe, Lawrence, Waghorn and Jozwiak as the four infront of them. Davies has been excellent as a third CB, but I don't know if he's up to it in a two anymore. It seems to have helped having him there no end. 

If you're asking me what I would do until Forest, really, what I would do until Bielik is 100% then I would continue with 5 at the back. 

The issue is that each Individual player needs to up their game and be more competitive to get the ball off the opposition.

[RadioactiveWaste]

I think the current set up is as much "needs must" as Cocu is ever going to go. He's changed the set up from the terrible first few games and we've moved from abject to very poor. At the moment it's not what Cocu really wants, it's not the way the pragmatist managers of the champioship would have them either. It's a compromise given what we have.

Ultimately, the main problem isn't the formation, or even the selections and tactics, the problem is confidence and belief which appear to be shot. Tuesday was "alright" until we went a goal down then everyone just felt like "oh well, that's that then".

Players, coaches, manager just all need to rebuild the belief we are going to win games because we have a good side that's been playing very badly this season.

 

[i-Ram]

10 hours ago, B4ev6is said:

I think we need change of formation maybe 442 or 4141 but 4321 does not seem to work as it put us on the back foot from the off. I know huddersfield lot better in first half with our midfield did not know how to deal with us but once shinnie came off it went to bits. But it was good to see waghorn back nearly providing us with a point but not quite with Clark header hitting the post and Richard I cant spell first name lively maybe work well with waghorn or Lawrence upfront in the attacking role. But I would like us lift it up a couple more levels.

Colon.

[Shang]

We might be playing as a 3-5-2 on paper, but if you watch the previous game you'll notice Wisdom stepping up into midfield a lot. That's where Huddersfield caught us out, they rushed the area where Byrne and Wiz were missing. When we're on the ball it goes to more of a 2-2-3-3 of sorts, similar to how Leeds set up when they have the ball.

[Rampage]

1 hour ago, Shang said:

We might be playing as a 3-5-2 on paper, but if you watch the previous game you'll notice Wisdom stepping up into midfield a lot. That's where Huddersfield caught us out, they rushed the area where Byrne and Wiz were missing. When we're on the ball it goes to more of a 2-2-3-3 of sorts, similar to how Leeds set up when they have the ball.

Only Ibe and Bielik to come back now. Perfectly normal to have a couple of potential first team players Injured so if we cannot beat half the league it is simply the case that the other teams are better than us. Hello. Formations are not the key. Is each player better than his opposite number. We will see.

[FindernRam]

14 minutes ago, Rampage said:

Formations are not the key. Is each player better than his opposite number. We will see.

The formation is key to knowing who your opposite number actually is. Derby seem to defend zonally and no-one seems to know which zone they own.

[Taribo]

After/during a losing streak on footy manager I revert to 442, creates stability to build off 

[Millenniumram]

4-3-3! Or just some more forwards on the pitch. Even just one attacking mid. Feel like Newcastle under Steve Bruce at the moment. Please Phil, just attack!

[Richard246]

4-4-2 or 4-1-4-1 the two only options right now.

Both make us more solid.

[Rampage]

3 hours ago, FindernRam said:

The formation is key to knowing who your opposite number actually is. Derby seem to defend zonally and no-one seems to know which zone they own.

On that basis, Derby players do not know what the formation is. I do not get it but I do know that changing the formation is not going to help unless the players improve. Why not use the three tier system and close the opposition down where they are most likely to cause problems. This will mean not going to the pub etc. unless you are having a meal while catching Covid. If there is an opponent who has the ball, get it off him. Do not let him get past you. Pass to a guy with a similarish shirt Do not pass to those who do not have a similarish shirt. Try to pass the ball forward nearly all the time. Have a shot on goal as it is not as yet banned. 

[oomarkwright]

5-5-0 nearly worked for a point.