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26 minutes ago, CocuCrazyCocuMad said:

1. Organising the academy through all levels up to the first team.

2. Reducing the wage bill and getting rid of players we normally offer silly extension contracts to.

3. Adding value to youth team players and protecting them equally (Bird being a good example).

The way I see it, Cocu is still in his first season given the circumstances and bad luck he's had. I know he's made some strange decisions, formations, substitutions, but I honestly don't see how anyone could expect any manager to come in and oversee a huge transition in culture, club management and philosophy and not see a downturn on the pitch.

Change again and what? We see better results, knock on the door of the play-offs but ultimately never get to the promised land? and then everyone say 'we need an overhaul' again.

He's stripping us right back, seeing us through a pandemic by cutting our cloth accordingly (or pay Martin money we don't think he's worth). Not to mention he's probably being told to be patient and see this period out because in two months time he can let CKR go for free and sign the striker we desperately need.

Who knows, I just think Derby fans are obsessed with the style of play until it doesn't suit anymore and then they cry out for wholesale changes before banging on about style of play again. It's getting boring. It's not about backing a manager when it suits, its about trusting the process.

See Alex Ferguson as the example. Imagine if Robins didn't save his job. Who knows we might sign our 'Cantona' in Jan. We don't know what's in the pipeline.

I think you are very wrong about virtually everything. Our academy needed to my knowledge no outside organising from Cocu. 

The club already had an agenda to substantially reduce the wage costs and all Cocu has done is operated within that framework.

Wassall has added the value to the younger players coming into the team, I am not convinced Cocu has added anything to any player, young or old. 

I have heard all these excuses for Cocu, but honestly he has had ample opportunity to at least show some progression in our play and results. 

He is in my opinion completely unsuited in character and tactics to manage in the Championship

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8 minutes ago, Monty said:

Not convinced about point 1 but in changing things as you outline he has taken us to the bottom of the league with no positive outlook IMO. This is more than just a downturn; with your comments re strange decisions, formations and substitutions don’t see how this can be viewed as good management 

I can't argue that it's good management. But I believe he will turn it around if he's given the chance and the club will be better than one ran by Gary Monk or similar run of the mill Championship manager.

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2 minutes ago, Hathersage Ram said:

I think you are very wrong about virtually everything. Our academy needed to my knowledge no outside organising from Cocu. 

The club already had an agenda to substantially reduce the wage costs and all Cocu has done is operated within that framework.

Wassall has added the value to the younger players coming into the team, I am not convinced Cocu has added anything to any player, young or old. 

I have heard all these excuses for Cocu, but honestly he has had ample opportunity to at least show some progression in our play and results. 

He is in my opinion completely unsuited in character and tactics to manage in the Championship

Cocu has played the young lads. Others wouldn't. So of course he's added value.

That's not saying you're right, I'm wrong, etc.

We might well sack him, get a manager in who takes us up and things are all good. But equally we might get someone who comes in and has to understand where we're at (during a pandemic) and we still go down. I guess Cocu gets the blame if we go down.

All ifs and buts I guess. I just heard a plan and we got a manager in who brought into the project. Nobody could foresee the misfortune he's had. Its so easy to put all the blame at his door. Not Mels because regardless of his 'mistakes' hes put money in and done his best. Not Rooney even though he's got a problem with weight because he's a legend.

Captain 1 didn't lead by example. Captain 2 isn't leading by example.

Just all Cocu's fault despite having the worst squad, in the worst period, with no money, etc.

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15 minutes ago, CocuCrazyCocuMad said:

I can't argue that it's good management. But I believe he will turn it around if he's given the chance and the club will be better than one ran by Gary Monk or similar run of the mill Championship manager.

Why?

Could you explain your reasoning behind this please.

As already stated,the academy is run and organised,very successfully,by Darren wassell and was doing so before Cocu arrived.

I haven't seen any evidence that the cub is bring run better since he landed,ongoings and outgoings have been middle of the road and we have no number 9 capable of successfully replacing the one which went out at the end of last season.

This alone has massively contributed to our current position and was entirely foreseeable.

In what way has Cocu improved on his predecessors in any meaningful way apart from the dubious honour of leading us to the bottom of the table for the first time in thirteen years or so?

Edited by kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong
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2 hours ago, minesahartington said:

How many times did PSV win it between 2000 and 2008?

7 times! 

Macs win was like Aberdeen taking the Scottish title way back when. 

How does the PSV team that won it seven times between 2000 and 2008 have anything to do with the team that won it three times under Cocu? How can that possibly diminish Cocu's achievement at all? The PSV managers for that period was Guus Hiddink and Ronald Koeman and they're no jokers either, but the teams are completely different. Cocu had to develop and build (with the good work by Marcel Brands) a team that could achieve the same title wins that he managed as a player a decade before. 

You wouldn't say Solksjaer should be expected to win the Premier League this season because Alex Ferguson did it with Manchester United in 2013.

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1 minute ago, CocuCrazyCocuMad said:

Cocu has played the young lads. Others wouldn't. So of course he's added value.

That's not saying you're right, I'm wrong, etc.

We might well sack him, get a manager in who takes us up and things are all good. But equally we might get someone who comes in and has to understand where we're at (during a pandemic) and we still go down. I guess Cocu gets the blame if we go down.

All ifs and buts I guess. I just heard a plan and we got a manager in who brought into the project. Nobody could foresee the misfortune he's had. Its so easy to put all the blame at his door. Not Mels because regardless of his 'mistakes' hes put money in and done his best. Not Rooney even though he's got a problem with weight because he's a legend.

Captain 1 didn't lead by example. Captain 2 isn't leading by example.

Just all Cocu's fault despite having the worst squad, in the worst period, with no money, etc.

You really are so immature in your assessment of our club. captain 1 was a phenomenal  leader on the pitch! Yes the incident involving him and others was disgraceful, especially the others. 

For goodness sake the whole championship is operating under the same pandemic, so it has no bearing on Cocu over others. 

Misfortune, omg can you not see the wood for the trees, this man is not fit for purpose 

The only part I agree on is Captain is not leading on the pitch by example

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1 minute ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

Why..could you explain your reasoning behind this please.

As already stated,the academy is run and organised,very successfully,by Darren wassell and was before Cocu arrived.

I haven't seen any evidence that the cub is bring run better since he landed,ongoings and outgoings have been middle of the road and we have no number 9 capable of successfully replacing the one which went out at the end of last season.

In what way has Cocu improved on his predecessors in any meaningful way apart from the dubious honour of leading us to the bottom of the table for the first time I thirteen year?

Time. He's undertaking a massive change at the club. Of course that needs time. So what if we're bottom in November. You don't get relegated in November, just like we've never won the league sitting at the top in November either.

Academy. Wassell has been in that job for years. How many of the academy players have we genuinely benefitted from or sold on for good money before Cocu arrived? Since he's been here we've had several given first team opportunities and sold Lowe/Bogle for good money in a period where we need it.

Cocu hasn't improved in comparison to predecessors because they spent all the money. He has a limited squad with a 'player/coach' captain which is arguably detrimental to any manager.

Do you really think Cocu thought 'I need a Colin Kazim-Richards in my team' to push us forward? Surely that signing (and grabbing a fat Jordan Ibe on a free) that makes you think 'he's being held back a bit here'. IF the money was available and he was able to sign one player instead that transformed us completely it would be a different story altogether.

Rome wasn't built in a day. It's about time we stopped thinking we are Rome already!

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10 minutes ago, Hathersage Ram said:

You really are so immature in your assessment of our club. captain 1 was a phenomenal  leader on the pitch! Yes the incident involving him and others was disgraceful, especially the others. 

For goodness sake the whole championship is operating under the same pandemic, so it has no bearing on Cocu over others. 

Misfortune, omg can you not see the wood for the trees, this man is not fit for purpose 

The only part I agree on is Captain is not leading on the pitch by example

Captain 1 under Cocu let him down. It's irrelevant what he was like before Cocu.

Other teams have brought players in during the Pandemic. We really haven't. Cocu's fault?

If you can't appreciate that he's had next to no luck then you deserve a Gary Monk.

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3 hours ago, Curtains said:


 

level 1PSV

TheDutchTank

2 years ago

Cocu has proven to be a great coach I’d say. He’s not as stubborn as most coaches in that he doesn’t mind to change his whole formation and style of play against certain teams, I’m pretty sure the players love him, and he became champions 3 times, 2 times of which I’m not too sure he had the better players.

He’s a very chill guy in front of the camera and you won’t see him mad very often, which is apparently a bad thing these days, but I really like it.

 

 

2 years ago

A lot of Fenerbahce fans want the new manager to play more exciting and attacking football. What can you say about that? Does he play attacking football? How is his relationship with younger players (does he give them a chance)? What kind of players does he like?

 

2 years ago

Cocu has been great for us, especially last season was a great achievement, we all expected to have some kind of break year, building the squad to really compete next year. Instead, he created champions out of a team with seemingly mediocre players (and Lozano).

I'll be really sad if he does leave for Fener, I really thought he would be able to find a decent club. Turkish clubs have a reputation for underperforming in Europe and not paying their employees. Really hope Cocu ends up in a decent competition and better club 😞

218

Posted by

u/MartCube

2 years ago

Huge complot against Cocu at Fenerbache

This was a huge investigation and the Fener president is 100% behind Cocu. The 3 guilty men are Turgay Alta, Murat Ozturk and Alper Asci. After Erwin Koeman joined Cocu’s team and got more tasks then them 3 (Obvious reasons for doing this were that they could communicate better and Erwin knows Cocu’s tactics better)

The fitnes trainer apprantly trained the players too hard on purpose to get them injured and tired before matches. They would complain but noone would tell Cocu any of this. Why his translator didn’t tell him this is beyond me since players must have complained to him directly.

Apparently they rolled out a rug before the Besiktas match and told the players they would roll Cocu up in it and send him back to the Netherlands, they did this again against Trnava.

They did this and send out information about Cocu’s tactics, videos of training sessions and the line up before the matches. They also apparently deleted all the stats and performance charts of last season so Cocu had to start again from scratch with a team he barely knew.

The 3 players that got suspended (Demirel, Dirar and Chachechoue) Demirel apparantly started a discussion with Koeman and someone from the board. Dirar and Chachechoue apprantly kept being happy about the results and never seemed to care what happened to the club.

Koc said is that Cocu really wanted to keep Giuliano and Souza but they couldn’t reject 25 million with the fair play rules for the club. Cocu was allowed to spend a maximum of 10 million and they had a preference for younger players and quality.

Last thing he said was that he should lose his emotions more often. Cocu has always been a captain and thus had an example to set by being calm and focused even in moments of panic.

Boring me !!!

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Just now, CocuCrazyCocuMad said:

Captain 1 under Cocu let him down. It's irrelevant what he was like before Cocu.

Other teams have brought players in during the Pandemic. We really haven't. Cocu's fault?

If you can't appreciate that he's had next to no luck then you deserve a Gary Monk.

Not brought players in, Marshall, Byrne and Jozwiak are big improvements on the team. 

You really are Philip Cocu aren't you, as no other person could be so blind to the negative effect he has had on the club

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25 minutes ago, Hathersage Ram said:

Not brought players in, Marshall, Byrne and Jozwiak are big improvements on the team. 

You really are Philip Cocu aren't you, as no other person could be so blind to the negative effect he has had on the club

Maybe I am.

But least you've acknowledged something he's done well. Three good signings. Byrne for Bogle (good money made there). Imagine if he could have brought more players in - that would have meant he had to sell more though 😀

Negative impact. I think every manager we've had over the past twenty years has had a negative impact in some way. I bet you're one of those that moaned that Clements football was boring, called Rowetts football hoof ball, said Wassell got it wrong, Mac didn't have a plan B, Lampard got it wrong at Wembley and binned us off, etc. You are aren't you? All of which had a squad that was far far better than this squad. None got us got promoted.

Edited by CocuCrazyCocuMad
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2 minutes ago, CocuCrazyCocuMad said:

Maybe I am.

But least you've acknowledged something he's done well. Three good signings. Byrne over Bogle. Imagine if he could have brought more players in 😀

I have acknowledged several times on here how successful this latest window has been. I have also stated my belief that really we are only short of a tall mobile cf, but that the squad as it stands are capable of top 6. It's just the manager is inept at tactics and motivation.

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I think it's quite simple really the players are not good enough and the squad is worse than last year in my opinion. We are therefore doing worse than last year. When everyone is fit and available we will progress up the league; I'm sure we will not go down but will be no more than mid table until we get better players.

Question is really will a change of manager improve where we finish in the league significantly I.e. get us up. If not will the next manager be able to attract better players so we improve next year when we have more funds?

I think Cocu will be able to attract better players when we have the funds.

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8 minutes ago, Hathersage Ram said:

I have acknowledged several times on here how successful this latest window has been. I have also stated my belief that really we are only short of a tall mobile cf, but that the squad as it stands are capable of top 6. It's just the manager is inept at tactics and motivation.

Not a chance they're a Top 6 team. No way. Miles away. And that's with Rooney.

There's several better squads in the league and a lot more settled (and better) teams too.

The championship is so hard to get out of. Your talk is that of a fan who expects Derby to always be challenging because we're a 'big club'. That's why we keep changing managers and achieving naff all.

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Just now, CocuCrazyCocuMad said:

Not a chance they're a Top 6 team. No way. Miles away. And that's with Rooney.

There's several better squads in the league and a lot more settled (and better) teams too.

The championship is so hard to get out of. Your talk is that of a fan who expects Derby to always be challenging because we're a 'big club'. That's why we keep changing managers and achieving naff all.

I have already discounted your opinion as irrelevant, your apparent misguided appreciation of football obvious! 

I did not say there were not better squads, i just said it was a top 6 squad and I stand by that. 

Perhaps it's nap time at nursery soon, enjoy!

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40 minutes ago, CocuCrazyCocuMad said:

Time. He's undertaking a massive change at the club. Of course that needs time. So what if we're bottom in November. You don't get relegated in November, just like we've never won the league sitting at the top in November either.

Academy. Wassell has been in that job for years. How many of the academy players have we genuinely benefitted from or sold on for good money before Cocu arrived? Since he's been here we've had several given first team opportunities and sold Lowe/Bogle for good money in a period where we need it.

Cocu hasn't improved in comparison to predecessors because they spent all the money. He has a limited squad with a 'player/coach' captain which is arguably detrimental to any manager.

Do you really think Cocu thought 'I need a Colin Kazim-Richards in my team' to push us forward? Surely that signing (and grabbing a fat Jordan Ibe on a free) that makes you think 'he's being held back a bit here'. IF the money was available and he was able to sign one player instead that transformed us completely it would be a different story altogether.

Rome wasn't built in a day. It's about time we stopped thinking we are Rome already!

It's going to be time to start thinking about playing in league one soon.

I think you may have forgotten that this is his second season with us,not his first and in that time we are performing far worse,not better.

Sometimes a partnership just doesn't work out,despite everyone's best intentions and this is one of them.

Let's be honest,any other manager who didn't have Cocus background would have been absolutely slaughtered by every fan on here for our performances over the past six months,from the latter end of last season to the point we have now reached and would undoubtedly have been relieved of his duties by now.

It's only the current circumstances that are preventing it happening now but that can't go on for long,something has to give.

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Hathersage Ram said:

I have already discounted your opinion as irrelevant, your apparent misguided appreciation of football obvious! 

I did not say there were not better squads, i just said it was a top 6 squad and I stand by that. 

Perhaps it's nap time at nursery soon, enjoy!

That's funny. Which squad you looking at? Clicked the wrong year on Wikipedia.

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3 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

It's going to be time to start thinking about playing in league one soon.

I think you may have forgotten that this is his second season with us,not his first and in that time we are performing far worse,not better.

Sometimes a partnership just doesn't work out,despite everyone's best intentions and this is one of them.

Let's be honest,any other manager who didn't have Cocus background would have been absolutely slaughtered by every fan on here for our performances over the past six months,from the latter end of last season to the point we have now reached and would undoubtedly have been relieved of his duties by now.

It's only the current circumstances that are preventing it happening now but that can't go on for long,something has to give.

 

 

 

I know its his second season but given the circumstances over the past eight months its more like his first.

You're right, if you're looking from the outside at Derby you've got to wonder how he hasn't been sacked. But did everyone not say our squad was poo without the loan signings we had under Frank? They did didn't they.

We're at the end of the table I expected us to be prior to the season. Just a few places lower.

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