Sack cocu

[minesahartington]

4 hours ago, DCFClks said:

It all comes down to results. If we were winning every game everyone would be saying how dignified and calm he is. If he was screaming up and down the touch line now everyone would say "lost it" etc. Not every successful manager is animated on the touchline, look at Brendan Rogers. I do think he's struggling to understand the mentality of English football and how nasty it can be at times. Lampard was very good at tapping into this, manipulating the media direction and creating an "us vs them" mentality really motivated the players.

Brendan is a scary bloke who takes no prisoners. Phil is a lovely bloke but remarkably unconvincing in this league.

Great player, good coach in a 2 or 3 horse race. No pedigree whatsoever in a competitive league. Blind pew could see this.

[Dimmu]

5 minutes ago, Yani P said:

Based on what exactly? Just more made up nonsense with not one shred of evidence of it being true..

Yeah, wait I call Wayne now...

"It's Dimmu here. So, Wayne are you a rat like the rumours been circling?"

"Sure I am."

"Cheers, Yani P wanted some evidence and didn't like the idea of imagined scenario. You know, only cold and hard facts are legitimate at dcfcfans.uk "

"Happy to help. By the way, could you send me one of your signed shirts?"

"Will do!"

[brady1993]

1 hour ago, Ambitious said:

The fitness is concerning. We had three games in a row where we played fast aggressive football, but visibly lost legs in the second half which led to us conceding leads. 

Leeds United players were 100% all in on their fitness in order to play like that. We simply don't have that motivation which for me comes back to the manager and coaching staff. This season can be filed under egregiously ill-prepared and that belongs to everyone: backroom staff, coaching staff and players. 

 

I do wonder though how much that was function of not really keeping the ball well at all leading to essentially too much running and knackering ourselves. Aggressive counter pressing is physically exhausting, you'd see even with Leeds they'd often tire out in the second half. The difference is they kept the ball a lot better meaning they could conserve the energy in shorter bursts. We were a bit too content to give up possession in those games.

[Rammy03]

56 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

Sure Shinnie got rotated in but he can't really do what Bird and Rooney were being asked to do during this time and put simply is poor at getting play going.

Yet cocu persists in playing him in that role to this day. Clueless management

[ThePrisoner]

[JustOneBiblicalKazim]

1 hour ago, Curtains said:

I predict this squad of players as it stands with any manager would never get promoted.

Thats my honest opinion.

 

But none of our managers in the last 10 years barring maybe Pearson would have them bottom 

[i-Ram]

1 hour ago, Curtains said:

Of course I don’t know what happened mate other than Cocu saying he would like him to stay. 

The rest is superstition 

I Wonder (did you see what I did there Curtains) if you mean supposition?

 

[Ramfan1958]

5 hours ago, rynny said:

In the last 20 years we have had more mangers that were worse than Cocu than we've had that are better than Cocu. 

Check his points record check is shots on target ?

If Norwich hadn't missed that penalty what would have happened ?

Tell me one game since he came were we've played fantastic ?

He is shocking he as no idea what is best team is  ?.

He doesn't know what formation to play.?

He's not developed the accadmey Weasel as done that.

Sack Cocu !!!

 

[Chris_Martin]

6 hours ago, DCFClks said:

It's just dawned on me how much of risk hiring Cocu was. The first time in our history we've appointed someone with no prior experience in English football. Someone who just had a terrible season at Fenerbahce, and we give him a 4 year contract!. I can't think of any managers at any level who get 4 year contracts these days.

yes it was a big risk and safe to say it hasn't worked out. if he was that good surely we'd of had competition to get him in but no one else wanted him. 

[rynny]

2 minutes ago, Ramfan1958 said:

Check his points record check is shots on target ?

If Norwich hadn't missed that penalty what would have happened ?

Tell me one game since he came were we've played fantastic ?

He is shocking he as no idea what is best team is  ?.

He doesn't know what formation to play.?

He's not developed the accadmey Weasel as done that.

Sack Cocu !!!

 

If Rooney hadn't missed the one on one against Watford we would have drew, if Waghorn hadn't skipped when offside we would have beat Forest, if Wisdom had shot anywhere but at Hamer, if Clarke had scored instead of post, we would have got something against Huddersfield, if Rooney had scored his one on one against QPR we would have got something. Easy this game. 

You want just 1 game? Easy, Blackburn at home just before lockdown last season. 

He will know his best team, but how often has it been available this season? Changing formation isn't a weakness, adapting to get the best of the players available, also proves that he isn't stubborn to stick with one thing regardless of how it is going (another thing he gets accused of!). 

He has helped develop the academy players, making the step up to the first team, knowing when to play them and when to remove them from pressure of playing for the first team, and the utterly ridiculous expectation of some fans. Look at the vitriol that has gone towards Bird in the last few months, Whittaker last season, why would you want to subject your youth players to that? 

Talk about being biased from the start and sticking to it. 

[Chris_Martin]

6 hours ago, Black ('n' White) Sheep said:

Agreed. What do most successful managers have in common? Klopp, Guardiola, Mourinho, Clough snr. and (as much as I hate to say it) Bielsa at Leeds... they're all managers that are passionate about what they do and have no problems showing it.

If Cocu is the same on the training ground as he is in interviews then he may know everything about the game but I'll be surprised if his persona does anything to inspire his team. I played a bit when I was younger, and (from my point of view anyway) I'd be more likely to bust myself for someone who was constantly shouting encouragement from the touchline (almost as if they were kicking the ball with you) than for someone who was quiet and reserved... just my opinion.

Agree completely. Passion & motivation can sometimes do more than any tactics can

[G-Ram]

Was mac a more successful manager in Holland than Cocu?

Mac took a team that's never won the league & became champions. A side that are now relegated & seen as an underdog.

Cocu won more league titles but took over one of the three biggest clubs in Holland who had won the league 6 years earlier. He won it when feyenoord were defending champions. Whilst Ajax were a very good side around 2018 & towards the end of cocu's time they very much go in cycles & rebuild with nee youngsters, sell & rebuild again

Not saying cocu's achievements weren't good but were they really that good. Mac's gone to a foreign league & won it. Cocu wins it in his home country with a club he was at as a player & familiar with. 

Both are good achievements but do we overestimate cocu. Its difficult to win any league but its not the most competitive 

If you judge it on league titles cocu is better if you judge it on the sides they took over id argue mac has done better. 

Im not really for mac 3 but sometimes a manager just fits with a club. He fit with us, fit at boro & just didn't fit at Newcastle. Maybe cocu just doesn't fit. Doesn't make him a bad manager just makes us the wrong club at the wrong time. 

[minesahartington]

16 minutes ago, G-Ram said:

Was mac a more successful manager in Holland than Cocu?

Mac took a team that's never won the league & became champions. A side that are now relegated & seen as an underdog.

Cocu won more league titles but took over one of the three biggest clubs in Holland who had won the league 6 years earlier. He won it when feyenoord were defending champions. Whilst Ajax were a very good side around 2018 & towards the end of cocu's time they very much go in cycles & rebuild with nee youngsters, sell & rebuild again

Not saying cocu's achievements weren't good but were they really that good. Mac's gone to a foreign league & won it. Cocu wins it in his home country with a club he was at as a player & familiar with. 

Both are good achievements but do we overestimate cocu. Its difficult to win any league but its not the most competitive 

If you judge it on league titles cocu is better if you judge it on the sides they took over id argue mac has done better. 

Im not really for mac 3 but sometimes a manager just fits with a club. He fit with us, fit at boro & just didn't fit at Newcastle. Maybe cocu just doesn't fit. Doesn't make him a bad manager just makes us the wrong club at the wrong time. 

They had not only won it 6 years earlier but 7 times in the noughties. It’s like managing Rangers or Celtic  

[Chris_Martin]

15 minutes ago, G-Ram said:

Was mac a more successful manager in Holland than Cocu?

Mac took a team that's never won the league & became champions. A side that are now relegated & seen as an underdog.

Cocu won more league titles but took over one of the three biggest clubs in Holland who had won the league 6 years earlier. He won it when feyenoord were defending champions. Whilst Ajax were a very good side around 2018 & towards the end of cocu's time they very much go in cycles & rebuild with nee youngsters, sell & rebuild again

Not saying cocu's achievements weren't good but were they really that good. Mac's gone to a foreign league & won it. Cocu wins it in his home country with a club he was at as a player & familiar with. 

Both are good achievements but do we overestimate cocu. Its difficult to win any league but its not the most competitive 

If you judge it on league titles cocu is better if you judge it on the sides they took over id argue mac has done better. 

Im not really for mac 3 but sometimes a manager just fits with a club. He fit with us, fit at boro & just didn't fit at Newcastle. Maybe cocu just doesn't fit. Doesn't make him a bad manager just makes us the wrong club at the wrong time. 

Cocu's achievements were good but when you've had players like Bergwjin, Depay, Lozano, De Jong, Zinchenko, Arias, Guardado, etc,etc  it certainly makes the job a lot easier. 

Mac winning the title with FC Twente in my opinion was a much bigger achievement and agree with you that sometimes people just 'fit' a certain club. Maybe its just meant to be with Mac at Derby, who knows? 

[Chris_Martin]

1 hour ago, rynny said:

If Rooney hadn't missed the one on one against Watford we would have drew, if Waghorn hadn't skipped when offside we would have beat Forest, if Wisdom had shot anywhere but at Hamer, if Clarke had scored instead of post, we would have got something against Huddersfield, if Rooney had scored his one on one against QPR we would have got something. Easy this game. 

You want just 1 game? Easy, Blackburn at home just before lockdown last season. 

He will know his best team, but how often has it been available this season? Changing formation isn't a weakness, adapting to get the best of the players available, also proves that he isn't stubborn to stick with one thing regardless of how it is going (another thing he gets accused of!). 

He has helped develop the academy players, making the step up to the first team, knowing when to play them and when to remove them from pressure of playing for the first team, and the utterly ridiculous expectation of some fans. Look at the vitriol that has gone towards Bird in the last few months, Whittaker last season, why would you want to subject your youth players to that? 

Talk about being biased from the start and sticking to it. 

Bet you can't name a game since then though?

[Rammy03]

1 hour ago, rynny said:

If Rooney hadn't missed the one on one against Watford we would have drew, if Waghorn hadn't skipped when offside we would have beat Forest, if Wisdom had shot anywhere but at Hamer, if Clarke had scored instead of post, we would have got something against Huddersfield, if Rooney had scored his one on one against QPR we would have got something.

But that would mean we would have had to be extremely clinical, which is not easy when you hardly create any chances. We're not bottom of the league because we miss sitters, we're bottom of the league because game after game we fail to attack as a cohesive unit and put on sustainable performances. We're just no good under Cocu.

[rynny]

25 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

Bet you can't name a game since then though?

Millwall, Reading and Birmingham

[rynny]

17 minutes ago, Rammy03 said:

But that would mean we would have had to be extremely clinical, which is not easy when you hardly create any chances. We're not bottom of the league because we miss sitters, we're bottom of the league because game after game we fail to attack as a cohesive unit and put on sustainable performances. We're just no good under Cocu.

We aren't creating enough chances, agreed, but we are creating clear cut chances, we are missing sitters. In most games since Norwich we have missed chances that we should be scoring.

Someone posted the expected goal table and we were 12th, would suggest we are creating big chances and missing them. 

[Rammy03]

8 minutes ago, rynny said:

Someone posted the expected goal table and we were 12th, would suggest we are creating big chances and missing them. 

But we're creating very few of them which is why you can't expect to be clinical. At the end of the day the best teams create the most chances and concede the least. I don't need any stats to help me make up my mind, I've watched every ball kicked by Derby this season and I can tell you we really are crap, the worst team in the league. The table doesn't lie.

[Ambitious]

Please can we stop with the nonsense that winning the Eredivisie was an easy task? Seriously, it's beyond ridiculous. Cocu won the league over an Ajax team that had Neres, Van De Beek, Kluivert, Ziyech, de Ligt, Dolberg, and Frankie de Jong. The PSV team that Cocu had was constantly ravaged by richer clubs and he made over £100m profit on his time there. 

To win the Eredivisie in his final year was an unbelievable achievement considering what he was up against and that was a team he and Marcel Brands built and developed. 

People are right to bring up McClaren's achievement in Holland too, because only now can you look back and truly appreciate just how unbelievable that achievement is/was. The players on that Ajax team, the same year included Gregory van der Wiel, Jan Vertonghen, Luis Suarez (49 goals in 48 games), Toby Alderweireld, Christian Eriksen and Siem de Jong. Feynoord had Vlaar, Wijnaldum, Makaay and others.

You can say that Cocu hasn't worked here, but once you start to debate what he's done as a manager then you lose all credibility. PSV hadn't won it in seven years until Cocu managed it and prior to them winning it Ajax had just won five in a row. 

For those saying it's just a two team league: the same amount of teams in that time have won the Eredivisie since 08-09 as those that have won the Premier League - 5.