Sack cocu

[Rev]

1 minute ago, Van Cone De Head said:

We’ve got a squad of talented footballers who aren’t perming to the best of their ability for whatever reason.

 

Agreed, they go behind and just curl up and dye.

[StaffsRam]

The team is less than the sum of its parts. The very antithesis of what a good manager should be looking to achieve.

[Ramley Apple]

35 minutes ago, LazloW said:

Seen somebody has raised the ‘laughing stock’ nonsense again (it’s a few posts ago). I can’t really argue with those suggesting Cocu should be sacked. I’m not sure I would sack him, but obviously there isn’t a lot going for him at the mo (a bit of an understatement).

However, I can argue with those suggesting not sacking him makes us a laughing stock. Nobody cares about us. Nobody is laughing at us. Most footy fans won’t even be aware we’re bottom of the league, never I doubt give a flying fig over who our manager is. And even if they did, who cares anyway?

We've only ever threatened to be part of the public consciousness because of Lampard and now Rooney

No-one cares enough about the East Midlands for us to be a "laughing stock"

And even if they did I hardly think sticking with a manager with a decent record (albeit prior to Derby) constitutes that

Most football fans I know admire a club for sticking with a manager through tough times

[Curtains]

I predict this squad of players as it stands with any manager would never get promoted.

Thats my honest opinion.

 

[roboto]

2 minutes ago, reverendo de duivel said:

Agreed, they go behind and just curl up and dye.

We do sometimes get a head.

Some of them could do with being a bit trimmer to keep up their conditioning through the match.

Maybe we're just shampoo though. It's not a cut and dry situation.

[Mostyn6]

Just now, Curtains said:

I predict this squad of players as it stands with any manager would never get promoted.

Thats my honest opinion.

 

That’s a brave prediction. ?

Would you predict them to be relegated? There’s a big divide between promotion and relegation. 

[StaffsRam]

Just now, Curtains said:

I predict this squad of players as it stands with any manager would never get promoted.

Thats my honest opinion.

 

Agree, there are deficiencies.

That being said, I doubt many managers would take them down.

[Coneheadjohn]

5 minutes ago, reverendo de duivel said:

Agreed, they go behind and just curl up and dye.

??

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, Mostyn6 said:

That’s a brave prediction. ?

Would you predict them to be relegated? There’s a big divide between promotion and relegation. 

Well I’ve heard on here if Cocu isn’t sacked we will get relegated so I can only assume a new manager will avoid that. 

[Coneheadjohn]

8 minutes ago, Curtains said:

This is where I disagree mate. 
 

I don’t see a squad of talented footballers 

Talented but not trying?

[Rev]

8 minutes ago, roboto said:

We do sometimes get a head.

Some of them could do with being a bit trimmer to keep up their conditioning through the match.

Maybe we're just shampoo though. It's not a cut and dry situation.

Blackburn apart, I don't think any team have been head and shoulders better than us.

[brady1993]

1 hour ago, SamUltraRam said:

What I still don't get is last season.

The first half of the season was tough to watch, almost like this season but better at home.

Then Rooney came in, one or two youngsters emerged and from games 25 to 40 we were top of the league on current form and scoring goals for fun. 16 games, 33 points , 34 goals scored. Top of the league on form - not top 6 or top 10 - for a third of the season.

Then it all turned to poo and has stayed that way

What the hell happened ?

 

This is something that I've been thinking about a lot lately.

Why did it go right ?

I think to understand where it's fallen apart  we perhaps need to look at why did it click in the first place because I think people often get this wrong (or at least give partially correct answers). For a lot of the first half of the season we struggled to properly control the game and effectively play our way out from the back and through midfield. We had a lot of the ball but because the balance wasn't right and the personal wasn't right we'd often look like a mistake waiting to happen and often didn't look like we had a purpose. Then with the introduction of Bird and Rooney we suddenly have two midfielders who are very good on the ball and good at creating passing options for each other and out of the defence, meaning that the ball could more easily come into and be played through midfield. We also introduced Wisdom at centre back around this time which meant 3 things; now we had two centre backs who could, a centre back who could carry the ball (arguably two with Clarke) and crucially a centre back with pace meaning we could play a higher line. This combined with the new midfield meant we could control the game and control it higher up allow us to really keep pressure on the opponent. Also it helped that the likes of Waghorn, Lawrence, Martin and Holmes had long stretches of fitness/availability.

Why did it go wrong ?

Again I think a lot of people overlook a lot in where the playoff challenge fell apart. Let's start with the easy stuff and then move onto some of the more overlooked points. Firstly it was put simply a difficult run of fixtures, a lot of teams sitting high in the table in a very short space of time with an aggresive fixture list meaning that any chink or issue was going to get magnified. Secondly lack of availability of forwards/poor squad depth out wide, this really did make a big difference the we started to lack creativity in the final 3rd and the oposition knew it. Wisdom's injury was massive in hindsight and goes understated, he'd formed a good partnership with Clarke and provided everything I'd previously outlined, the two attempts at replacing him in Evans and Davies were both flawed. Davies isn't great on the ball and slow meaning we had to drop more when he played, Evans whilst reliable on the ball tends to dwell on it and be passive with it and can't carry it like Wisdom could (all combined with lack of experience as a defender). It meant that first and crucial stage of our game plan was disrupted with no good fix. Then last but not least our midfield got knackered from the schedule with 0 good rotation options, this was most notable with Rooney who by the West Brom game was dead on his feet and by Cardiff a complete liability. Sure Shinnie got rotated in but he can't really do what Bird and Rooney were being asked to do during this time and put simply is poor at getting play going.

Why has it gone really wrong ?

We started the season with similar problems as we finished the previous season i.e. bunch of forwards missing and Rooney missing from midfield. We were asking a lot of Bird to captain the side and be the sole playmaker and a lot of Sibley by pushing him forward to be the chief attacking threat. I think the mistake in part here was not recognising that we needed to shift slightly to get more of an attacking thrust from centre (namely moving both Knight and Sibley into midfield with someone sat behind). We also (particularly right at the start of the season) were making a lot of changes from game to game and I'd argue we were overreacting from the results and not giving enough time for players to get their feet under. This mini-period culminated in the blackburn game. What we should have recognised from that game is that it was a mistake to drop Clarke, Wisdom shouldn't play on the left side of defence and that Rooney was at best half fit all combined with we essentially got sucker punched in a crazy 5 minutes. We should haved dusted ourselves down, took a hard look at ourselves and made a few appropriate tweaks.

Instead we essentially abandoned everything we'd been working up to that point and try to refashion ourselves as a functional hard to beat side. Sibley and Bird are banished, we go with two grafters in midfielders without a semblance of playmaker and Davies returns from the cold. This new way of play is essentially predicated on high energy counter pressing and not really caring if we have the ball unfortunately this meant that whilst we would start well in games we'd quickly tire because we just didn't have the ball enough and when we tired we'd drop off. Maybe if we'd focussed on this in the pre-season and maybe if we weren't playing two games a week, we wouldn't have seen this pattern but I have my doubts as there looked to be clear structural issues in what we trying to do. With that clearly we needed to adjust somewhat but we kind of end doing the worst of both worlds in the QPR game, we try to lurch back to what we were doing before but without the players who could it make work and we end up looking a complete mess and putting in the worst performance of the season. Then again against Barnsley we try to be more possesion orientated back in 343 but again without the players who could enable it, we recognised that part way through the game but by that it was too late. All of the above combined with the ebbing of confidence from game to game means we are now we are.

Yes we started poorly but we lost faith far too quickly in both what we were trying to do and the players brought in to do it, there has been too much change too quickly and probably too much willingness to let players dictate tactics. It's left us a confused mess without clear direction. Ultimately it's regrettfully why I think we probably have to replace Cocu, we need the bump in confidence that new ideas brings along with a clear focused direction.

[Dimmu]

3 hours ago, SamUltraRam said:

What I still don't get is last season.

The first half of the season was tough to watch, almost like this season but better at home.

Then Rooney came in, one or two youngsters emerged and from games 25 to 40 we were top of the league on current form and scoring goals for fun. 16 games, 33 points , 34 goals scored. Top of the league on form - not top 6 or top 10 - for a third of the season.

Then it all turned to poo and has stayed that way

What the hell happened ?

 

I've been thinking about this lately and even though we'll never know, maybe the rumours of Rooney gathering his own team were true? We certainly look like a "team" with undermining mutineer as a captain...

If this would be true, I'd kick that ducking rat out of the club with his 32 deal. Like you said, we were the best team in the league for much of the last season, Cocu deserves better than knife to his back again. He deserves some respect, especially with all the madness going on last season.

We can only imagine how our players feel if this scenario was true and Rooney is our next manager. Who'd give his all for such leader?

[IslandExile]

1 minute ago, Dimmu said:

I've been thinking about this lately and even though we'll never know, maybe the rumours of Rooney gathering his own team was true? We certainly look like a "team" with undermining mutineer as a captain...

If this would be true, I'd kick that ducking rat out of the club with his 32 deal. Like you said, we were the best team in the league for much of the last season, Cocu deserves better than knife to his back again. He deserves some respect, especially with all the madness going on last season.

We can only imagine how our players feel if this scenario was true and Rooney is our next manager. Who'd give his all for such leader?

I agree with this.

Also, whether folks are for or against Cocu, no one would like the idea of someone positioning themselves to take over by undermining the manager.

There has been a theory expressed that Colin Todd, one of my favourite ever players, undermined Jim Smith in order to take over. I dunno how true that is but it leaves an unpleasant taste. 

[Ramarena]

31 minutes ago, Curtains said:

That’s being pedantic.

Of course he was out of contact for ducks sake. 

I'm not the one getting bogged down and making assumptions on Martin. 

Just admit you don't know what really happened!

Other than us offering him a contract I don't know the ins and outs of Martins decision......why can't you admit the same?

 

 

[Curtains]

6 minutes ago, Ramarena said:

I'm not the one getting bogged down and making assumptions on Martin. 

Just admit you don't know what really happened!

Other than us offering him a contract I don't know the ins and outs of Martins decision......why can't you admit the same?

 

 

Of course I don’t know what happened mate other than Cocu saying he would like him to stay. 
 

The rest is superstition 

 

[RoyMac5]

14 minutes ago, Dimmu said:

I've been thinking about this lately and even though we'll never know, maybe the rumours of Rooney gathering his own team were true? We certainly look like a "team" with undermining mutineer as a captain...

If this would be true, I'd kick that ducking rat out of the club with his 32 deal. Like you said, we were the best team in the league for much of the last season, Cocu deserves better than knife to his back again. He deserves some respect, especially with all the madness going on last season.

We can only imagine how our players feel if this scenario was true and Rooney is our next manager. Who'd give his all for such leader?

You know the saying 'give a dog a bad name and it sticks' - your theory is based on what? Something we've known since Rooney arrived, that he is here as a coach because he wants to go into management after he finishes playing.

The other side of your scenario might be why not look good for your new manager - after all he'll not pick you if you're rubbish?!

2+2 = gossip Oh and we were rubbish before Rooney arrived!

[Brammie Steve]

32 minutes ago, Van Cone De Head said:

Talented but not trying?

Talented but extremely trying!

[Curtains]

22 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

This is something that I've been thinking about a lot lately.

Why did it go right ?

I think to understand where it's fallen apart  we perhaps need to look at why did it click in the first place because I think people often get this wrong (or at least give partially correct answers). For a lot of the first half of the season we struggled to properly control the game and effectively play our way out from the back and through midfield. We had a lot of the ball but because the balance wasn't right and the personal wasn't right we'd often look like a mistake waiting to happen and often didn't look like we had a purpose. Then with the introduction of Bird and Rooney we suddenly have two midfielders who are very good on the ball and good at creating passing options for each other and out of the defence, meaning that the ball could more easily come into and be played through midfield. We also introduced Wisdom at centre back around this time which meant 3 things; now we had two centre backs who could, a centre back who could carry the ball (arguably two with Clarke) and crucially a centre back with pace meaning we could play a higher line. This combined with the new midfield meant we could control the game and control it higher up allow us to really keep pressure on the opponent. Also it helped that the likes of Waghorn, Lawrence, Martin and Holmes had long stretches of fitness/availability.

Why did it go wrong ?

Again I think a lot of people overlook a lot in where the playoff challenge fell apart. Let's start with the easy stuff and then move onto some of the more overlooked points. Firstly it was put simply a difficult run of fixtures, a lot of teams sitting high in the table in a very short space of time with an aggresive fixture list meaning that any chink or issue was going to get magnified. Secondly lack of availability of forwards/poor squad depth out wide, this really did make a big difference the we started to lack creativity in the final 3rd and the oposition knew it. Wisdom's injury was massive in hindsight and goes understated, he'd formed a good partnership with Clarke and provided everything I'd previously outlined, the two attempts at replacing him in Evans and Davies were both flawed. Davies isn't great on the ball and slow meaning we had to drop more when he played, Evans whilst reliable on the ball tends to dwell on it and be passive with it and can't carry it like Wisdom could (all combined with lack of experience as a defender). It meant that first and crucial stage of our game plan was disrupted with no good fix. Then last but not least our midfield got knackered from the schedule with 0 good rotation options, this was most notable with Rooney who by the West Brom game was dead on his feet and by Cardiff a complete liability. Sure Shinnie got rotated in but he can't really do what Bird and Rooney were being asked to do during this time and put simply is poor at getting play going.

Why has it gone really wrong ?

We started the season with similar problems as we finished the previous season i.e. bunch of forwards missing and Rooney missing from midfield. We were asking a lot of Bird to captain the side and be the sole playmaker and a lot of Sibley by pushing him forward to be the chief attacking threat. I think the mistake in part here was not recognising that we needed to shift slightly to get more of an attacking thrust from centre (namely moving both Knight and Sibley into midfield with someone sat behind). We also (particularly right at the start of the season) were making a lot of changes from game to game and I'd argue we were overreacting from the results and not giving enough time for players to get their feet under. This mini-period culminated in the blackburn game. What we should have recognised from that game is that it was a mistake to drop Clarke, Wisdom shouldn't play on the left side of defence and that Rooney was at best half fit all combined with we essentially got sucker punched in a crazy 5 minutes. We should haved dusted ourselves down, took a hard look at ourselves and made a few appropriate tweaks.

Instead we essentially abandoned everything we'd been working up to that point and try to refashion ourselves as a functional hard to beat side. Sibley and Bird are banished, we go with two grafters in midfielders without a semblance of playmaker and Davies returns from the cold. This new way of play is essentially predicated on high energy counter pressing and not really caring if we have the ball unfortunately this meant that whilst we would start well in games we'd quickly tire because we just didn't have the ball enough and when we tired we'd drop off. Maybe if we'd focussed on this in the pre-season and maybe if we weren't playing two games a week, we wouldn't have seen this pattern but I have my doubts as there looked to be clear structural issues in what we trying to do. With that clearly we needed to adjust somewhat but we kind of end doing the worst of both worlds in the QPR game, we try to lurch back to what we were doing before but without the players who could it make work and we end up looking a complete mess and putting in the worst performance of the season. Then again against Barnsley we try to be more possesion orientated back in 343 but again without the players who could enable it, we recognised that part way through the game but by that it was too late. All of the above combined with the ebbing of confidence from game to game means we are now we are.

Yes we started poorly but we lost faith far too quickly in both what we were trying to do and the players brought in to do it, there has been too much change too quickly and probably too much willingness to let players dictate tactics. It's left us a confused mess without clear direction. Ultimately it's regrettfully why I think we probably have to replace Cocu, we need the bump in confidence that new ideas brings along with a clear focused direction.

I think the last paragraph sums it up very  well. 

[Yani P]

24 minutes ago, Dimmu said:

I've been thinking about this lately and even though we'll never know, maybe the rumours of Rooney gathering his own team were true? We certainly look like a "team" with undermining mutineer as a captain...

If this would be true, I'd kick that ducking rat out of the club with his 32 deal. Like you said, we were the best team in the league for much of the last season, Cocu deserves better than knife to his back again. He deserves some respect, especially with all the madness going on last season.

We can only imagine how our players feel if this scenario was true and Rooney is our next manager. Who'd give his all for such leader?

Based on what exactly? Just more made up nonsense with not one shred of evidence of it being true..