IslandExile Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 3 hours ago, Mostyn6 said: I cannot fathom the thinking that when certain players return, things will improve. How? This form isn’t to do with who is available, it’s to do with the philosophy of play. It’s identical to the Nigel Clough era, with optimists continuously excusing dull performances and dire results by pointing to missing players, although any improvement upon their return was wholly negligible! I’m not sure of the solution, but it’s obvious to me, we will NEVER EVER EVER be even a top 10 team under Cocu. Yeah, the performance and results of a team doesn't have anything to do with the players that are available ?♂️ ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 10 minutes ago, IslandExile said: Yeah, the performance and results of a team doesn't have anything to do with the players that are available ?♂️ ? True ask Clough what he thought when Mac came in! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramos Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 3 hours ago, TexasRam said: Thats him, usually followed by Foooorrrrrward. However he does continue to call Wisdom “Norman” and that makes me chuckle Lol I think you sit near me. A guy behind me in a thick Derby accent always says ‘go on Norman’. He also yells far side Forsyth, when a player has the ball facing the west stand with his head down and somehow expects him to spin and pick out a 40 yard pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeedsCityRam Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 Deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 26 minutes ago, Ramos said: Lol I think you sit near me. A guy behind me in a thick Derby accent always says ‘go on Norman’. He also yells far side Forsyth, when a player has the ball facing the west stand with his head down and somehow expects him to spin and pick out a 40 yard pass. Haha if it’s not him, it’s his twin brother ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandExile Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 49 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: True ask Clough what he thought when Mac came in! ? Can we, at least, agree that it's the combination of coach and players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 1 hour ago, IslandExile said: Yeah, the performance and results of a team doesn't have anything to do with the players that are available ?♂️ ? Exactly. For years people excused Nigel Clough, but SM rubbished those excuses by taking the same players to Wembley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandExile Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Mostyn6 said: Exactly. For years people excused Nigel Clough, but SM rubbished those excuses by taking the same players to Wembley. They were better players than the ones we have now. Please tell me the manager - realistically available - that you would like to put in charge of the current squad. Very curious. Don't hide behind specifying their qualities. Name names. Ta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 10 minutes ago, IslandExile said: They were better players than the ones we have now. Please tell me the manager - realistically available - that you would like to put in charge of the current squad. Very curious. Don't hide behind specifying their qualities. Name names. Ta. I'm not actually calling for Cocu to be sacked, I'm just annoyed that people are excusing him (using the injured players as excuse) when in my opinion, they should be demanding a better standard of coaching, tactics and entertainment. I could list several managers, but they'd all be rubbished by anyone just on the basis of wanting to disagree with me! If push came to shove, and Cocu was removed or resigned, I'd let Wassall run things. He's earned his stripes, he plays a positive brand of football and is loyal to Derby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 15 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: Exactly. For years people excused Nigel Clough, but SM rubbished those excuses by taking the same players to Wembley. They excused Clough while he put together a team over the course of 4 years and 10/11 transfer windows. Some people stopped allowing Cocue any excuses (read: perfectly valid reasons) 5 months in! Most people had stopped excusing him by the time the 2013/14 season came about, because a) he couldn't get the team he built to perform above a certain standard, b) they were fed up of him making progress only to chuck it away by (allegedly) falling out with players and c) they were fed up of his downbeat woe is me attitude and mardiness in interviews. If you want to believe that McClaren would have been able to come in 2-3 years earlier than he did and have the same effect on a less complete squad I guess that's up to you, it can't be proven either way but I'd suggest his impact wouldn't even have come close to what it did in 2013/14... ...and let's not forget that it was cited at the time that it was Paul Simpson's input into our on-field approach which lead to us going 'gung ho' at times, while McClaren favoured a more cautious approach! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 4 hours ago, oldtimeram said: Bring back McClaren Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandExile Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 Edit: Sorry this is in reply to @Mostyn6 but I didn't quote his post... https://dcfcfans.uk/topic/35733-sack-cocu/?do=findComment&comment=1957077 A couple of points... For someone not calling for Cocu to be sacked, you're highly critical. I'd also argue that it is difficult to be "entertaining" with so many of our attacking players unavailable. No quality of coaching will turn Shinnie and Evans, bless them, into world class creative players. I thought for a moment, you were going to get out of making suggestions for alternative managers - many people who find it easy to criticise struggle to be constructive - but, fair play to you for suggesting Wassall. I like Wassall and think he was unfairly treated in his previous stint. However, if the players are not taking on what someone of Cocu's stature demands, then what chance them respecting what they'll see as an academy coach? (Some here will remember Colin Murphy). Finally, you say Wassall has been loyal to Derby. I agree and I hope, for the job he does with the academy, that he is well rewarded. But wouldn't you agree that, for all the ? that Cocu has had to deal with, certainly last year but also with the club finances, that he is also showing great loyalty and dedication to our club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popside ossie end popside Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 5 hours ago, Mostyn6 said: I cannot fathom the thinking that when certain players return, things will improve. How? This form isn’t to do with who is available, it’s to do with the philosophy of play. It’s identical to the Nigel Clough era, with optimists continuously excusing dull performances and dire results by pointing to missing players, although any improvement upon their return was wholly negligible! I’m not sure of the solution, but it’s obvious to me, we will NEVER EVER EVER be even a top 10 team under Cocu. Never? Ever?. . . . Ever? Correct that man, CRAPPY FOOTBALL!! Why can't people see it?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 14 hours ago, Mostyn6 said: I cannot fathom the thinking that when certain players return, things will improve. How? This form isn’t to do with who is available, it’s to do with the philosophy of play. It’s identical to the Nigel Clough era, with optimists continuously excusing dull performances and dire results by pointing to missing players, although any improvement upon their return was wholly negligible! I’m not sure of the solution, but it’s obvious to me, we will NEVER EVER EVER be even a top 10 team under Cocu. As others have pointed out, we finished 10th last season, but why let facts get in the way of a rant eh... How can you not fathom that playing 2 proper wingers and a mobile striker, instead of 3 centre mids in those positions will not improve things??? If you don't think playing players in their proper positions is important maybe we should play Marshal up top, Ibe in goal, and Rooney left back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 9 hours ago, Mostyn6 said: I'm not actually calling for Cocu to be sacked, I'm just annoyed that people are excusing him (using the injured players as excuse) when in my opinion, they should be demanding a better standard of coaching, tactics and entertainment. I could list several managers, but they'd all be rubbished by anyone just on the basis of wanting to disagree with me! If push came to shove, and Cocu was removed or resigned, I'd let Wassall run things. He's earned his stripes, he plays a positive brand of football and is loyal to Derby. Oh yeah, we all loved that positive brand of football. Subbing our defensive midfielder and hold up man when the opposition had gone route one, up at Rotherham. How'd that end up?? Or risking our first 11 in a dead rubber against Ipswich on the last day of the season with the play off semi around the corner. What happened then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 11 hours ago, IslandExile said: They were better players than the ones we have now. Please tell me the manager - realistically available - that you would like to put in charge of the current squad. Very curious. Don't hide behind specifying their qualities. Name names. Ta. Paul Cook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimeram Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 10 hours ago, bcnram said: Why? Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 11 hours ago, Mostyn6 said: Exactly. For years people excused Nigel Clough, but SM rubbished those excuses by taking the same players to Wembley. And then when Martin, Thorne, Eustace, Mascarell, Bucko and Whitbread were all injured the team completely fell apart… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 7 minutes ago, cannable said: And then when Martin, Thorne, Eustace, Mascarell, Bucko and Whitbread were all injured the team completely fell apart… Has Cocu even looked as good as Mac2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 8 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Has Cocu even looked as good as Mac2? My point was that it’s abundantly clear that injuries have an impact… McClaren coached Clough’s team up a level and then injuries caused it to fall apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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