How much time do we give Phil?

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, goldstar said:

For the sake of his mental health as well as everything else, no more time. I think he could do a good job elsewhere but it's not going to work here. 

True enough, I reckon there must be a Dutch club he’d do well at.

[goldstar]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

True enough, I reckon there must be a Dutch club he’d do well at.

I think so, Championship doesn't seem to be the right fit

[Jourdan]

I didn’t watch the game tonight, but it sounds like it was one of those games that tend to happen to managers whose luck and golden touch has completely deserted them.

Fair play to Cocu. He has never hidden. He has never made excuses. He has always carried himself well and rolled with the punches. You can see he has tried everything to stop the rot. But nothing he does seems to be working.

Managing in this division is brutal. It’s not like the Eredivisie where you might lose to Ajax one week but have a gimme against Willem II the following game to get yourselves back on track.

It’s such a competitive division and if you allow a run to snowball, every game looks tougher than the last.

As important as the current project is to him, I am not sure Mel will be able to stomach a loss to Forest.

Not just because it’s our local rivals, but because if Forest were to win, they’d have picked up the same points in less than a week than we have since the last time we played them back in July.

That tells you how deep a hole we are in.

I’d love it to work out. I would love Cocu to inspire a massive win on Friday and kick on from there.

But to be brutally honest, we look like we need a shot in the arm, the kind only a new manager can bring.

[deanoakaram4life]

New manager and outlook needed! Youth players should be implemented in the squad carefully, not thrown in at the deep end. Max Bird was completely out of his depth tonight... and it’s not his fault. 
 

I’d sack him now and get Paul Cook in, a man that would inject passion into the club! 

[Scoot Ram]

1 hour ago, NottsRammy said:

For God's sake how many times do we have to have Steve McClaren before the penny drops ..........good god some of you grow up .

The same Steve McClaren that fans complained about not ‘having a plan B’, and who had his head easily turned by another club. No thanks.

[derbydaz22]

9 hours ago, deanoakaram4life said:

New manager and outlook needed! Youth players should be implemented in the squad carefully, not thrown in at the deep end. Max Bird was completely out of his depth tonight... and it’s not his fault. 
 

I’d sack him now and get Paul Cook in, a man that would inject passion into the club! 

I’m still Cocu in by a whisker and I really want it to work but if he does go we really need to get his replacement right and I would go for Paul Cook.

[Alph]

9 hours ago, Scoot Ram said:

The same Steve McClaren that fans complained about not ‘having a plan B’, and who had his head easily turned by another club. No thanks.

Fans that were wrong about no plan B. We didn't play like this. This and Clement is not having a plan b. 

We would go direct (think back to Buxton and Grants long range passing and even more so how often Forsyth would fire it past midfield into Martin). Or we would go through Hughes, Thorne, Hendrick etc. Or Keogh would drive forward if teams allowed it. Our full backs would also bomb on if we got bogged down. And we were able to counter attack through Russell etc. We used to win lots of soft free kicks with long balls into Martin. 

The only reason people said "no plan b" is because we lost games. Which i tried to say is normal for a top end team but apparently if your good then you aren't allowed to lose to someone crap. 

McClaren had his head turned. But I wouldn't worry about that with Cocu because i don't think many clubs be interested. Rowett the Derby fan also had his head turned as did Frank. The difference was that Mac committed his future. Mel himself said that. 

I don't want Mac back because of the bickering it would cause. But anybody who said he had no plan B and Pearson would get this team promoted was wrong. 

The only real thing Mac did wrong was not figure out how to play after losing 3 DM's and 2 strikers. Plus he had an injured keeper he kept playing. 

A 2-2 'collapse' then would be match of the season now. 

[May Contain Nuts]

10 hours ago, deanoakaram4life said:

New manager and outlook needed! Youth players should be implemented in the squad carefully, not thrown in at the deep end. Max Bird was completely out of his depth tonight... and it’s not his fault. 
 

I’d sack him now and get Paul Cook in, a man that would inject passion into the club! 

Max Bird got his chance in the team through injuries and suspensions, took his chance well and has established himself over time as one of our more capable midfielders.

People seem reacting to the terrible set pieces yesterday and staining his overall performance with them.

Knight and Buchanan, who's improving every game, were excellent yesterday.

Bogle was 'thrown in at the deep end' under Lampard and excelled.

Some wanted to see Whittaker and/or JHI yesterday and were disappointed with their lack of action. Would that not have been throwing them in at the deep end too? The alternative to not using them was a rotating Lawrence, Knight & Jozwiak, and complaints about not using a striker.

Strikes me that you're actually now complaining about something that has genuinely been handled well, and even if you don't think it has, you're really just criticising the manager for following his remit from above.

[May Contain Nuts]

41 minutes ago, Alpha said:

The only real thing Mac did wrong was not figure out how to play after losing 3 DM's and 2 strikers. Plus he had an injured keeper he kept playing. 

A 2-2 'collapse' then would be match of the season now. 

The thing with though, is that is McClaren was already in a position of great strength when he lost those players. A position largely handed to him by Nigel Clough and then boosted by being able to make some big loan signings.

He took over a ready made squad, and aside from Thorne's ACL, didn't really have to face any major challenges up until that collapse.

He had momentum on his side, goodwill and plenty of time to establish, with a full strength team, a successful playing style.

If he'd had such wide scale injuries 2-3 months in it would have been a completely different story.

[ziggyram59]

I think we should cut our loses and get rid of Cocu now, it's obvious things haven't worked out from day 1. I don't think his good enough for the championship and doesn't understand the need to play fast attractive football. One other question to bare in mind if fans were still attending the games at Pride Park or away what reaction would the fans be giving him? 

[Carnero]

1 hour ago, derbydaz22 said:

I’m still Cocu in by a whisker and I really want it to work but if he does go we really need to get his replacement right and I would go for Paul Cook.

Sums up my thoughts entirely.

I know it must be bad when even I'm starting to waver.

9 league defeats in 11 games, no matter what the circumstances, is appalling.

[hughesy 1984]

1 hour ago, Alpha said:

Fans that were wrong about no plan B. We didn't play like this. This and Clement is not having a plan b. 

We would go direct (think back to Buxton and Grants long range passing and even more so how often Forsyth would fire it past midfield into Martin). Or we would go through Hughes, Thorne, Hendrick etc. Or Keogh would drive forward if teams allowed it. Our full backs would also bomb on if we got bogged down. And we were able to counter attack through Russell etc. We used to win lots of soft free kicks with long balls into Martin. 

The only reason people said "no plan b" is because we lost games. Which i tried to say is normal for a top end team but apparently if your good then you aren't allowed to lose to someone crap. 

McClaren had his head turned. But I wouldn't worry about that with Cocu because i don't think many clubs be interested. Rowett the Derby fan also had his head turned as did Frank. The difference was that Mac committed his future. Mel himself said that. 

I don't want Mac back because of the bickering it would cause. But anybody who said he had no plan B and Pearson would get this team promoted was wrong. 

The only real thing Mac did wrong was not figure out how to play after losing 3 DM's and 2 strikers. Plus he had an injured keeper he kept playing. 

A 2-2 'collapse' then would be match of the season now. 

Ahhhhhh attacking football ? anyone else forgotten what that is? 

[ram1964]

The only thing Cocu hasn't done that the previous half dozen managers have. Is spend a poo load of cash ,No other manager i suspect will walk into the job and miraculously change anything whilst players are out or not up to match fitness from injury.What have we achieved by changing manager ,season after season ??? Even Bloody Brian Clough didn't do it in a season and he hasn't had half the issues Cocu s had. Nor did Klopp for Liverpool should they have been sacked?

we all want the same thing, success , promotion attractive football , but Who would seriously want the job of any calibre with our history of sacking managers. Half of you want instant success, hasn't the last 5 years or 6 managers taught us anything. Let's give Cocu a chance ,it takes time to recruit ,improve and implement policies and structure . 

As for SM ,IF he is such a bloody good manager how come he isn't managing a top club? People say he was unlucky when with us but he didn't have Covid to deal with,empty stadiums,embargos, Keogh mess ect to deal with.

Let's get behind the club ,support the manager, Mel and the team have patience and stop throwing your toys out of the Pram.

 

[G-Ram]

What we're missing is enjoyment. Not just us fans but the players. 

I know its hard when you are losing & people will argue players should be motivated because they are paid professionals etc. Regardless of recent results it doesn't look like any of our players are enjoying playing football & i include last season not just this season when results have been beyond garbage 

Mac one had everyone buzzing, the videos on RAMs TV looked fun, there was a togetherness between management & players it looked & enjoyable. Under Lampard performance's weren't always there but he created a buzz & togetherness. Both managers promoted a positive culture through the club. 

Everything now just seems gloomy & depressing. We need a shake up. The Rooney transfer created a buzz & its no coincidence performances & results improved. 

I just think a bit of positivity breads positivity. We need something to happen for everyone to enjoy it again. Even if thats a new man manager pick the players up create a bit of positivity. Players enoying football usually play well 

[Warwick Ram]

2 hours ago, ram1964 said:

The only thing Cocu hasn't done that the previous half dozen managers have. Is spend a poo load of cash ,No other manager i suspect will walk into the job and miraculously change anything whilst players are out or not up to match fitness from injury.What have we achieved by changing manager ,season after season ??? Even Bloody Brian Clough didn't do it in a season and he hasn't had half the issues Cocu s had. Nor did Klopp for Liverpool should they have been sacked?

we all want the same thing, success , promotion attractive football , but Who would seriously want the job of any calibre with our history of sacking managers. Half of you want instant success, hasn't the last 5 years or 6 managers taught us anything. Let's give Cocu a chance ,it takes time to recruit ,improve and implement policies and structure . 

As for SM ,IF he is such a bloody good manager how come he isn't managing a top club? People say he was unlucky when with us but he didn't have Covid to deal with,empty stadiums,embargos, Keogh mess ect to deal with.

Let's get behind the club ,support the manager, Mel and the team have patience and stop throwing your toys out of the Pram.

 

Clough famously finished a position lower in his first season than what he proceeded him. However, in the following season we were promoted. Part of that was good management but mainly because he signed good players. Yes, Klopp took a few years but they were not close to relegation. Ferguson was due to be sacked at Man Utd until he won the FA cup. I agree that changing manages every year hasn’t helped. However, Pearson and Clement left for off field reasons. McLaren was sacked due to performances. Rowett and Lampard left for other clubs. There is clear mitigation for our changing of managers. I really want Cocu to do well but we cannot get relegated. I know there is a long way to go but where are the green shoots of recovery?

[MaltRam]

All the time in the world. For ever. Come what may. He's our guy.

[ram1964]

50 minutes ago, Warwick Ram said:

Clough famously finished a position lower in his first season than what he proceeded him. However, in the following season we were promoted. Part of that was good management but mainly because he signed good players. Yes, Klopp took a few years but they were not close to relegation. Ferguson was due to be sacked at Man Utd until he won the FA cup. I agree that changing manages every year hasn’t helped. However, Pearson and Clement left for off field reasons. McLaren was sacked due to performances. Rowett and Lampard left for other clubs. There is clear mitigation for our changing of managers. I really want Cocu to do well but we cannot get relegated. I know there is a long way to go but where are the green shoots of recovery?

Only 6 games in no real threat of relegation as we speak ,players recovering ,some good promising signings,academy players gaining experience so it's not a lost cause

[europia]

5 hours ago, G-Ram said:

What we're missing is enjoyment. Not just us fans but the players. 

I know its hard when you are losing & people will argue players should be motivated because they are paid professionals etc. Regardless of recent results it doesn't look like any of our players are enjoying playing football & i include last season not just this season when results have been beyond garbage 

Mac one had everyone buzzing, the videos on RAMs TV looked fun, there was a togetherness between management & players it looked & enjoyable. Under Lampard performance's weren't always there but he created a buzz & togetherness. Both managers promoted a positive culture through the club. 

Everything now just seems gloomy & depressing. We need a shake up. The Rooney transfer created a buzz & its no coincidence performances & results improved. 

I just think a bit of positivity breads positivity. We need something to happen for everyone to enjoy it again. Even if thats a new man manager pick the players up create a bit of positivity. Players enoying football usually play well 

Which begs the question, does signing a player like Kazim-Richards, give everyone a lift, or leave them feeling even more underwhelmed ?

[Van der MoodHoover]

23 hours ago, deanoakaram4life said:

New manager and outlook needed! Youth players should be implemented in the squad carefully, not thrown in at the deep end. Max Bird was completely out of his depth tonight... and it’s not his fault. 
 

I’d sack him now and get Paul Cook in, a man that would inject passion into the club! 

This is most perplexing of all.....why???

I'm not having a pop at the OP, but we had eg the Blackburn game at home last season with no Wazza, with Bird running the midfield with shinnie. 

Sound familiar?

Having been very much IN his depth, another 6 months experience seems to have made him worse......why????

I just don't get it. 

[Van der MoodHoover]

6 hours ago, ram1964 said:

The only thing Cocu hasn't done that the previous half dozen managers have. Is spend a poo load of cash ,No other manager i suspect will walk into the job and miraculously change anything whilst players are out or not up to match fitness from injury.What have we achieved by changing manager ,season after season ??? Even Bloody Brian Clough didn't do it in a season and he hasn't had half the issues Cocu s had. Nor did Klopp for Liverpool should they have been sacked?

we all want the same thing, success , promotion attractive football , but Who would seriously want the job of any calibre with our history of sacking managers. Half of you want instant success, hasn't the last 5 years or 6 managers taught us anything. Let's give Cocu a chance ,it takes time to recruit ,improve and implement policies and structure . 

As for SM ,IF he is such a bloody good manager how come he isn't managing a top club? People say he was unlucky when with us but he didn't have Covid to deal with,empty stadiums,embargos, Keogh mess ect to deal with.

Let's get behind the club ,support the manager, Mel and the team have patience and stop throwing your toys out of the Pram.

 

Alex ferguson took 4 years to win anything at utd.

Its another era....we can't keep quoting him.