Jump to content

How much time do we give Phil?


Chris_Martin

Recommended Posts

13 minutes ago, MuespachRam said:

We wont go down....we will be miles off going down....however we wont go up either we will be miles off that too... which is ok for me... We need consistency just let him have as long as he wants to change the club around.

Consistently awful. That’s some philosophy you have. And I wish I was as certain that Cocu won’t take us down!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 544
  • Created
  • Last Reply
7 minutes ago, Hathersage Ram said:

Have you progressed from Ladybird books yet. It’s the formation. Style of play. Motivation. Not being so negative. Just read for goodness sake 

I understand Hathersage is a lovely village.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m losing patience, I consider my myself a patient person too. I very rarely lose interest in Derby, yet I’m finding myself getting less excited about the games. I’m not sure how much more of this “cocu ball” I can take, it’s so boring and predictable. I hope he can turn it around, i just feel time isn’t on his side. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would love Cocu to succeed like I would any other manager who manages us, I can take losing but it’s more the performances which I’m more concerned about it’s shocking, 2 goals in 5 matches and just about averaging one shot on target each game. I’m fed up of hearing about injured players all the time, this squad is still good enough to produce a lot more than what we have been doing, teams like Rotherham, Barnsley etc are getting the most out of there squads, why not us?? Every team is there for the taking in the championship this year but yet we can’t even muster an attack! This season will be over before it’s even started at this rate. Players will start questioning his tactics if we don’t keep picking up any points and once that happens it will be curtains for Cocu.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Um.....

I’m getting more patient. Lol ? 

he’s been let down by Mel, Stephen Pearce and the recruitment team. They have made a mess of ffp, financial planning and recruitment so that he’s ended up without the second striker he needs. 
cocu fields the wrath of a section of the fans but he simply hasn’t been backed.
He has got to work with Frank’s strikers. 

frank raised 13m from selling vydra, And weimann and got to buy malone, jozefzoon, Waghorn, Marriott, Holmes and Evans

last season I doubt whether cocu had much say in the summer transfer decisions

This season cocu raises 11m from selling bogle and Lowe and gets byrne, jozwiak, and the free transfers of Marshall, CKR, MTW and ibe. 
it’s not really adequate Or equivalent is it.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It’s true that Lampard and possibly Clement would have laughed Mel out of the office if he had introduced Kazim-Richards as the newest recruit, but I would wager the other managers we’ve had recently would have probably just got on with the job.

At the end of the day, no two managers will have the same circumstances and no two managers will be given the same working parameters.

Cocu simply has to do the best with what he has and if you put aside spending, Cocu has still been provided with a very good standard of player on the whole.

It’s not like he’s in a Clough scenario - exclusively shopping in Scotland and Leagues One or Two and being asked to develop and add value to little known players we’ve picked up from Clyde or Crewe.

In real terms, Byrne, Marshall and Ibe are all very capable Championship players and in ordinary times, they would have set us back significant money. We just happened to pick them up at an opportune moment.

Te Wierik could prove himself to be just as capable at this level too. Ibe could actually prove to be even better than the Championship if we get him back on track.

So does Cocu need to be given £10 million to feel backed if the quality of player is good and they fit the profile he wants?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, RamNut said:

No but needs more than he’s getting. 
including a proper no9. 

I totally agree that mistakes were made in the transfer window.

We should have signed a striker and should have started putting plans in place to deliver that the moment Martin walked away. No excuses.

But besides the striker, surely Cocu got practically everything he wanted?

I get the disappointment, but missing out on one signing doesn’t suddenly make a year in the bottom half of the table acceptable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

I totally agree that mistakes were made in the transfer window.

We should have signed a striker and should have started putting plans in place to deliver that the moment Martin walked away. No excuses.

But besides the striker, surely Cocu got practically everything he wanted?

I get the disappointment, but missing out on one signing doesn’t suddenly make a year in the bottom half of the table acceptable.

You are putting your own spin on it first referencing a figure of £10m then suggesting that it’s only one player less.

its obvious that that he got far fewer Hand picked players than frank did. Therefore he hasn’t had the same opportunity or backing. Frank got the players HE wanted. Cocu also got the players FRANK wanted. 

frank spent all the money raised through sales and some more.

cocu only got to spend 25-30% of money raised through sales.

He hasn’t had anything like the same backing, or the same opportunity to build the team he wants. 
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, RamNut said:

Um.....

I’m getting more patient. Lol ? 

he’s been let down by Mel, Stephen Pearce and the recruitment team. They have made a mess of ffp, financial planning and recruitment so that he’s ended up without the second striker he needs. 
cocu fields the wrath of a section of the fans but he simply hasn’t been backed.
He has got to work with Frank’s strikers. 

frank raised 13m from selling vydra, And weimann and got to buy malone, jozefzoon, Waghorn, Marriott, Holmes and Evans

last season I doubt whether cocu had much say in the summer transfer decisions

This season cocu raises 11m from selling bogle and Lowe and gets byrne, jozwiak, and the free transfers of Marshall, CKR, MTW and ibe. 
it’s not really adequate Or equivalent is it.

 

 

So are you forgetting the pandemic when we have NO income from ticket sales not to mention all the corporate stuff.if it's not really adequate or equivalent why is everyone saying we have had a better window this year.so did you want the board to carry on with the spending and shut the club down then???

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, RamNut said:

You are putting your own spin on it first referencing a figure of £10m then suggesting that it’s only one player less.

its obvious that that he got far fewer Hand picked players than frank did. Therefore he hasn’t had the same opportunity or backing. Frank got the players HE wanted. Cocu also got the players FRANK wanted. 

frank spent all the money raised through sales and some more.

cocu only got to spend 25-30% of money raised through sales.

He hasn’t had anything like the same backing, or the same opportunity to build the team he wants. 
 

 Sorry but What a load of rubbish...but a very interesting view

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Jourdan said:

I totally agree that mistakes were made in the transfer window.

We should have signed a striker and should have started putting plans in place to deliver that the moment Martin walked away. No excuses.

But besides the striker, surely Cocu got practically everything he wanted?

I get the disappointment, but missing out on one signing doesn’t suddenly make a year in the bottom half of the table acceptable.

Dont forget it takes 2 in contract talks and also in transfers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Ramslaar said:

So are you forgetting the pandemic when we have NO income from ticket sales not to mention all the corporate stuff.if it's not really adequate or equivalent why is everyone saying we have had a better window this year.so did you want the board to carry on with the spending and shut the club down then???

I’m not forgetting anything. I’m simply pointing out - that for whatever reason - he hasn’t had the same backing or opportunity to build his team.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am pretty sure as a business man that Morris had decided to keep some of the money raised by Lowe and Bogle to pay the wages.

Doesn't matter who you sign, if you can't pay them they will soon give up any interest.

We do still have a fairly large squad  (once all fit) compared to others, and as this appears to be a much compressed season where games will come quick and fast, we might reap some benefits from that over the season.

Yes we need a striker (ball dropped there) on the whole and under the circumstances I think Cocu did pretty well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I must say that in all the decades of watching Derby I have never known a manager being dealt a worse hand with all the events and timings of everything that has been going on whilst having to introduce youngsters and remove high earners.

results count obviously and style of play is important to Derby county supporters but I believe it’s way to early to consider moving him on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, RamNut said:

You are putting your own spin on it first referencing a figure of £10m then suggesting that it’s only one player less.

its obvious that that he got far fewer Hand picked players than frank did. Therefore he hasn’t had the same opportunity or backing. Frank got the players HE wanted. Cocu also got the players FRANK wanted. 

frank spent all the money raised through sales and some more.

cocu only got to spend 25-30% of money raised through sales.

He hasn’t had anything like the same backing, or the same opportunity to build the team he wants. 
 

I am not twisting anything. The point is no two managers are ever going to have the same financial backing or the same circumstances to work from.

Yes, we can all see that Cocu has spent less than previous managers in pure cash terms, but does that mean we can’t judge him until he has had £15+ million to spend like Lampard or £20+ million to spend like Clement?

Realistically, the answer is no.

To my mind, yes, we can say that Cocu hasn’t been fully backed at times. He clearly wanted a striker in January and yet again during this window. He was left disappointed both times. Also, yes, replacements haven’t been forthcoming for Martin and Marriott.

But I would say that the players and resources provided to him in general have not been unworkable as such. Not to the extent that he deserves such a lavish pity party.

The two signings that stand out as being particularly poor or unforgivable are Hamer and Kazim-Richards. All of the rest? Definitely workable and in some cases, the envy of many teams in the division.

Bielik and Clarke were two of the most highly rated players playing in League 1 prior to signing but actually joined from Premier League clubs, so their potential has always been reasonable.

Paterson and Dowell didn’t work out in the end, but it’s telling that they have become reasonably important players at good Championship sides, so just how bad are they?

The Rooney signing sent shockwaves through the division. It was clearly a signing we couldn’t afford in ordinary circumstances and gave us a competitive advantage over much of the division.

Looking at this season’s crop, Marshall, Byrne and of course now Clarke are well known to be good and dependable Championship players too. Ibe and Jozwiak would be statement signings for the majority of the division. The only signing that may not live up to initial promise is Te Wierik.

So, OK, yes, Cocu hasn’t been given £20 million to spend. But is it really a case of an impossible job with no backing?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...