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A Bright Future?


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All been a bit doom and gloom from some quarters thus far this season, but there remain a deal of reasons to be optimistic as to the club's future. Not least of these is the wealth of talent we seen emerging from the academy as illustrated in the graphic below.

While our young'uns have some way to go yet to fully cement themselves in a side capable of topping the league, few if any clubs can match the efforts of Darren Wassall and our team coaches and I feel strongly that we in Cocu, we have one of the best in the business to further develop the likes of Sibley, Bird, Knight, JMH, Whittaker and co, not to mention even younger players now starting to blossom, the most exciting of whom to my eye remains Festy Ebosele.

Their ongoing immersion in the men's game can only be a positive for the future of the club from both a footballing and commercial standpoint, so whilst we've endured a trying start to the season, I feel sure we'll be looking a rather different prospect within the year. Patience will be key, however! 

image.thumb.png.ecc2bc16def7c5888b6feac3e0612efe.png

COYR

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Unfortunately, most football supporters are impatient and want 'jam today'.

In some ways the young players are lucky that their not playing in front of big crowds.

When things are not going right for the team despondency and verbal disappointment from stands quickly permeates from the stands to the players. 

Blooding teenagers has become a necessity not a choice due to the 'financial sins' of the past.

This however maybe the only route to both our salvation from our financial woes and our route to the promised land. 

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5 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

The graphic is very powerful. What it doesn't tell is whether the reliance on teenage players is down to sheer necessity to make numbers up and field a side. 

That's usually the case with things like this. Just look at the other teams up there... recently relegated and getting rid of much of the rest of the squad, financial difficulties, ownership turmoil etc etc

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8 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

The graphic is very powerful. What it doesn't tell is whether the reliance on teenage players is down to sheer necessity to make numbers up and field a side. 

I'm not sure that makes much difference.

Last time around, that same necessity gave us Hughes and Hendrick. Plus a few others who at least made it as a professional league player.

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20 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

The graphic is very powerful. What it doesn't tell is whether the reliance on teenage players is down to sheer necessity to make numbers up and field a side. 

Apologies, but whether it's out of necessity is completely irrelevant to the actual point I've made. Of course our hand has been forced to a degree, but that does not undermine the likely benefits. Having teenagers comprise half the starting 11 is most often not entirely desirable but the experience these kids are gaining will likely be extremely valuable to their both their development and the club as a whole. As I said, patience will be key.

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7 minutes ago, Srg said:

That's usually the case with things like this. Just look at the other teams up there... recently relegated and getting rid of much of the rest of the squad, financial difficulties, ownership turmoil etc etc

I think ours is largely natural. The U18 side was as dominant as the Chelsea side the season before with the likes of Hudson-Odoi, Gallagher, Gilmour, Panzo, Guehi, James and Lamptey...etc. 

The difference is we play in the Championship and these players may well be better than anything else at this level, equally younger players (even Mount and Wilson) were inconsistent in large doses. Although, again, most Championship players are and that's exactly why the established players down here continue to ply their trade in the second division of English football.

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1 hour ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

All been a bit doom and gloom from some quarters thus far this season, but there remain a deal of reasons to be optimistic as to the club's future. Not least of these is the wealth of talent we seen emerging from the academy as illustrated in the graphic below.

While our young'uns have some way to go yet to fully cement themselves in a side capable of topping the league, few if any clubs can match the efforts of Darren Wassall and our team coaches and I feel strongly that we in Cocu, we have one of the best in the business to further develop the likes of Sibley, Bird, Knight, JMH, Whittaker and co, not to mention even younger players now starting to blossom, the most exciting of whom to my eye remains Festy Ebosele.

Their ongoing immersion in the men's game can only be a positive for the future of the club from both a footballing and commercial standpoint, so whilst we've endured a trying start to the season, I feel sure we'll be looking a rather different prospect within the year. Patience will be key, however! 

image.thumb.png.ecc2bc16def7c5888b6feac3e0612efe.png

COYR

Great graphic, 86 etc

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Saw that graphic earlier, we really are the stand out team there. Certainly shows that we’re getting the rewards of all the investment into the academy now - we’ve now got so many homegrown players who are capable of playing a role within our squad, a couple of whom have already established themselves as key starting players. 

I do feel some players were rushed in a bit though, especially last season. Don’t think it really benefits anyone to put pressure on young players who aren’t ready yet, and we paid the price last season for having a paper thin squad. It looks like we’ve moved to rectify that this window which is good news for the upcoming season - we now have greater depth across most positions in terms of established senior pros, which means we should be able to leave some of the younger players in the U23’s for a bit longer, which is where they will develop best initially. That should leave us with the very best of our young talent in the first team, which, combined with hopefully some quality senior pros, should give us a much better chance this season. (The key signing remains a good striker mind). Then of course when some of the younger lads prove themselves ready, I’m sure they will take the chance to break into the first team when it comes.

My only concern really is that we will end up selling some of them on the cheap again. I’m still scarred by Will Hughes, and I’m far from convinced by the Bogle/Lowe deal either. I can only hope that the latter deal was at the top end of the reported prices, not the lower end, or I fear we still haven’t learnt our lesson.

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25 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Saw that graphic earlier, we really are the stand out team there. Certainly shows that we’re getting the rewards of all the investment into the academy now - we’ve now got so many homegrown players who are capable of playing a role within our squad, a couple of whom have already established themselves as key starting players. 

I do feel some players were rushed in a bit though, especially last season. Don’t think it really benefits anyone to put pressure on young players who aren’t ready yet, and we paid the price last season for having a paper thin squad. It looks like we’ve moved to rectify that this window which is good news for the upcoming season - we now have greater depth across most positions in terms of established senior pros, which means we should be able to leave some of the younger players in the U23’s for a bit longer, which is where they will develop best initially. That should leave us with the very best of our young talent in the first team, which, combined with hopefully some quality senior pros, should give us a much better chance this season. (The key signing remains a good striker mind). Then of course when some of the younger lads prove themselves ready, I’m sure they will take the chance to break into the first team when it comes.

My only concern really is that we will end up selling some of them on the cheap again. I’m still scarred by Will Hughes, and I’m far from convinced by the Bogle/Lowe deal either. I can only hope that the latter deal was at the top end of the reported prices, not the lower end, or I fear we still haven’t learnt our lesson.

Who was rushed in though?

Early season, Buchanan only played when we were missing Lowe, Forsyth and Malone. He played at the end of the season when Malone was cut out of the squad, Lowe was struggling with a niggling injury and Fozzy needed a rest.
Bird came in in December when all our CM options were almost completely depleted - weren't we down to just Evans and Holmes as alternatives in the CM positions?
Knight was involved throughout the season and his performances didn't suggest it was too soon.
Sibley's performances showed it wasn't too soon for him.
You could make a point about Whittaker, but his game time was limited to a few minutes at the end of every other game to help him make that adjustment to first team football.

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2 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

All been a bit doom and gloom from some quarters thus far this season, but there remain a deal of reasons to be optimistic as to the club's future. Not least of these is the wealth of talent we seen emerging from the academy as illustrated in the graphic below.

While our young'uns have some way to go yet to fully cement themselves in a side capable of topping the league, few if any clubs can match the efforts of Darren Wassall and our team coaches and I feel strongly that we in Cocu, we have one of the best in the business to further develop the likes of Sibley, Bird, Knight, JMH, Whittaker and co, not to mention even younger players now starting to blossom, the most exciting of whom to my eye remains Festy Ebosele.

Their ongoing immersion in the men's game can only be a positive for the future of the club from both a footballing and commercial standpoint, so whilst we've endured a trying start to the season, I feel sure we'll be looking a rather different prospect within the year. Patience will be key, however! 

image.thumb.png.ecc2bc16def7c5888b6feac3e0612efe.png

COYR

Not sure if that reminds me of Defender or Missile Command?

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2 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Apologies, but whether it's out of necessity is completely irrelevant to the actual point I've made. Of course our hand has been forced to a degree, but that does not undermine the likely benefits. Having teenagers comprise half the starting 11 is most often not entirely desirable but the experience these kids are gaining will likely be extremely valuable to their both their development and the club as a whole. As I said, patience will be key.

Being thoroughly cynical, it also helps the club hugely from a finance point of view. You can bet a youngster with 10 first team games under his belt is worth £ 100k more than a bright lad in the under 23’s -  at the rare top of that scale, you get Bogle and Lowe. Who’s fees have bailed us out for this season at least. That’s your gate money for a year ! 

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10 minutes ago, jono said:

Being thoroughly cynical, it also helps the club hugely from a finance point of view. You can bet a youngster with 10 first team games under his belt is worth £ 100k more than a bright lad in the under 23’s -  at the rare top of that scale, you get Bogle and Lowe. Who’s fees have bailed us out for this season at least. That’s your gate money for a year ! 

But what about last year's gate money, I'm still waiting for my share of that 🙄 

Must admit when I renewed my season ticket last month, I was rather expecting last year's refund to follow closely behind . 

Edited by SamUltraRam
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19 minutes ago, jono said:

Being thoroughly cynical, it also helps the club hugely from a finance point of view. You can bet a youngster with 10 first team games under his belt is worth £ 100k more than a bright lad in the under 23’s -  at the rare top of that scale, you get Bogle and Lowe. Who’s fees have bailed us out for this season at least. That’s your gate money for a year ! 

It's not cynical chap! That's partially the business model, least as far as I understand it. Securing 7 figure sums for academy grads is a wonderful way to secure your club's future. I suppose having an astute businessman who initially had his fingers burnt is starting to work out well from a commercial standpoint, as the penny has clearly dropped and the investment in academy is infrastructure now looking almost certain to pay off in spade loads. I'm utterly convinced this is the business model we needed to adapt and I'm equally convinced it'll yield dividends both on and off the pitch.

Last year was when we really hit the bottom hard with all the on / off field shenanigans and those idiots at the EFL trying to spike us at every turn. This year has begun in pretty muted tones too, on the field at least, but off it we've seen a good return on two academy products, a far savvier recruitment drive than we've become used to and some exciting players being brought in too. I'm by nature someone who tends to look on the bright side of things, especially where the club I support is concerned, but I genuinely do see a brighter future ahead.

Perhaps the light at the end of the tunnel is, for once, not an oncoming freight train after all! 🙂

Edited by 86 Schmokes & a Pancake
Typos, typos everywhere
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Well i wondered what I was meant to be looking at as I couldn’t find us, literally off the chart lol

The good news is they’ve all been performing even if somewhat erratic in some games. Consistency will improve as the players play more often together. 
 

A settled team and a few of the more senior players back like Lawrence and Waghorn, plus Ibe getting up to speed and we should do ok

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2 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

The graphic is very powerful. What it doesn't tell is whether the reliance on teenage players is down to sheer necessity to make numbers up and field a side. 

Glad you managed to find that nugget of negativity in what should be an entirely positive thread. I was starting to feel good about the club for a second then, I was worried.

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11 minutes ago, lrm14 said:

Glad you managed to find that nugget of negativity in what should be an entirely positive thread. I was starting to feel good about the club for a second then, I was worried.

Bore off was a fair comment to make. Am sorry if I had the temerity to ask something that didn't fit in with your perspective. Next time I'll ask for your permission first before making a post just so you can authorise it. 

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48 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Who was rushed in though?

Early season, Buchanan only played when we were missing Lowe, Forsyth and Malone. He played at the end of the season when Malone was cut out of the squad, Lowe was struggling with a niggling injury and Fozzy needed a rest.
Bird came in in December when all our CM options were almost completely depleted - weren't we down to just Evans and Holmes as alternatives in the CM positions?
Knight was involved throughout the season and his performances didn't suggest it was too soon.
Sibley's performances showed it wasn't too soon for him.
You could make a point about Whittaker, but his game time was limited to a few minutes at the end of every other game to help him make that adjustment to first team football.

Neither Buchanan or Whittaker were ready enough to be playing any football last season Imo. To be fair, we were well covered at LB so Buchanan didn’t play a lot, but we left ourselves way too short up front. Whittaker should have been playing regular U23 football, not a few minutes every game at first team level. That lack of a quality signing in the wide areas cost us last season more than anything else imo.

I’d say Knight was rushed through a little early as well. By the new year I think he started showing what he was capable of, but early in the season he looked lost. Again, too much pressure on him because we signed a dud in Dowell. Sibley had an impressive couple of games I agree, but even he had too much pressure on him too early imo. He was, and still is, very raw - yet we’ve been relying on him to be our main threat almost, week in, week out. He’s still too young to be relied upon as a key player imo - hopefully the signings we’ve made on the wings will allow Lawrence to play in number 10 and reduce the pressure on Sibley to perform. 

It’s only Bird who we handled perfectly imo. Gave him the time to adapt after he made the odd appearance under Lampard, and we’re now reading the benefits of that patience. That has to be the blueprint going forward imo. Don’t leave ourselves short at first team level so we end up forcing young players through early. Let them come through at their own pace, when they’re ready, and you will see the long term benefits.

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22 minutes ago, lrm14 said:

Glad you managed to find that nugget of negativity in what should be an entirely positive thread. I was starting to feel good about the club for a second then, I was worried.

Not everyone has to post the same thing.

His comment is fair. Just because we give young players a lot of minutes doesn't mean anything. It certainly doesn't mean they are any good. 

Whilst i am glad to see our academy producing so many talented individuals it still has a way to go to produce players equalling those from the academies of the top clubs in the country.

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