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Will the "Cocu outers" give us some respite?


IslandExile

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51 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

The "Next manager" thread was even worse.

But it was the incessant snipes in almost every thread that ate away at me.

Anyhow....

Absolutely..

And people who moaned and criticised constantly with no regard or rather disregard for context and the situation we found ourselves in, who now claim that they were justified in their often OTT criticism..

Arrogant nonsense.

Another unlosable argument though

We improve.. it's because they were right

We don't improve... It's because they were right.

People who back and trust the manager and didn't feel the need to make lengthy diatribes about all the things he was doing wrong, but instead trust  him to see the problems and attempt sort them.. hmm, blind faith!

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36 minutes ago, Archied said:

Yep when your hurting from a loss but taking the positive of a good debut from our new winger and ibe to come in and you get all the cocu will coach the flair out of them stuff it’s the last grating kind of stuff

Exactly. That is precisely the type of remark that I am referring to.

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55 minutes ago, Coconut said:

Absolutely..

And people who moaned and criticised constantly with no regard or rather disregard for context and the situation we found ourselves in, who now claim that they were justified in their often OTT criticism..

Arrogant nonsense.

Another unlosable argument though

We improve.. it's because they were right

We don't improve... It's because they were right.

People who back and trust the manager and didn't feel the need to make lengthy diatribes about all the things he was doing wrong, but instead trust  him to see the problems and attempt sort them.. hmm, blind faith!

When does making a comment or observation turn into a moan or a criticism? Is the answer when you don't agree with what they are putting forward perchance. 

I've never known a manager to be beyond criticism, if we were top of the league then absolutely I'd be the first to say the posts were totally unnecessary. But we're not, before today's game we've have a number of abject performances and results so far this season which have rolled over from the last one. 

Fair comment to me but criticism and moaning to you. 

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People are still moaning about "negative" tactics today even after the win. Cocu came with a game plan, executed it to perfection with a little bit of luck of the way. Davies said in his interview about it was the plan, it worked ffs. 

When you've lost 3 out of 3, it doesn't matter how you win, just get a win. Sometimes it needs to be ugly. 

Some of the comments on Cocu were completely disrespectful. 

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Not at all convinced by Cocu but it was a step in the right direction and I'd rather praise him and the team for that.

This could be a good spell. It could be 1 of the 10 games we will win this season. It could be us all laughing at our promotion party about losing 4-0 to Blackburn. Nothing was proven

Maybe it showed us that we can do things without Waghorn and Lawrence and we don't need them to mix our game up a bit? We should have shown this side of ourselves sooner? 

I'm so glad we got a result for playing how we did. Last week we got battered for coming out of our shell which seemed a bit harsh. Would have been crushing this week.

All the things we did are all the things we haven't been doing enough. We've been too pretty, too patient, too easy going. I really hope we take more than the 3 points from this. 

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1 hour ago, Coconut said:

Absolutely..

And people who moaned and criticised constantly with no regard or rather disregard for context and the situation we found ourselves in, who now claim that they were justified in their often OTT criticism..

Arrogant nonsense.

Another unlosable argument though

We improve.. it's because they were right

We don't improve... It's because they were right.

People who back and trust the manager and didn't feel the need to make lengthy diatribes about all the things he was doing wrong, but instead trust  him to see the problems and attempt sort them.. hmm, blind faith!

Look at some of the common views in recent weeks:

-Cocu needs to be the one to make the difference.

-Results and performances haven’t been good enough.

-We can’t wait around for all our missing players to return. The division is too unforgiving and results-driven.

-Every club has issues, so we can’t make excuses where injuries, the transfer embargo and the financial difficulties are concerned.

-We have to make the best out of what we’ve got.

-We have to adjust the tactics and the style of play.

-We have to make ourselves hard to beat and get the basics right and show the right levels of desire, organisation and application.

Today’s result and performance makes an absolute mockery of the poor, helpless, luckless Derby narrative that has been pushed for weeks and showed prior criticism was absolutely justified.

Cocu made all the difference today, he and the players stepped up, and Cocu has been fully credited for it by almost everyone on the forum.

Where’s the arrogance in that?

 

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Look lads we didn't play well at all great defensive performance great goalkeeping 2 shots on target  in 90mins isn't good .Take away Rooneys goal and he was poor really poor he can't run ,  in my opinion football wise he isn't good enough the legs have gone one free kick doesn't make a summer. 

Pleased with 3 points we needed them but the football is dire 2 shots on target  in 95 mins get real were really poor to watch and going no were. 

Do I have faith in Cocu NO I keep telling you what PSV fans say boring football that's Cocu. 

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53 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

When does making a comment or observation turn into a moan or a criticism? Is the answer when you don't agree with what they are putting forward perchance. 

I've never known a manager to be beyond criticism, if we were top of the league then absolutely I'd be the first to say the posts were totally unnecessary. But we're not, before today's game we've have a number of abject performances and results so far this season which have rolled over from the last one. 

Fair comment to me but criticism and moaning to you. 

Great post, it's hard to quantify.

I guess it depends on the individual?

Maybe when it's repeated so often that there hasn't been a reasonable amount of time given, or changes occured, between posts and it just feels like 'banging on' and as if the poster thinks we've all forgotten their opinion since the last time it was posted.

If we'd have lost 1-0 today, an identical performance aside from one penalty miss and one free kick, would there have been another pile-on? Cocu changed too much. Rooney should have been subbed off earlier.

If we'd have beaten Luton 2-1, an equally viable result on the overall performance, would the same arguments have taken place?

So may it's, but some just seem to take the negative side of the coin toss and make an absolute judgement on what did happen as opposed to what didn't.

I think most (sometimes overly positive) comments are in retaliation to such posts, rather than a concerted effort to be put forward the idea that the management can do no wrong.

It's late, my phone's about to die, I've had beer, so if I haven't explained myself too well I apologise.

Nobody really wants to fall out with other posters... generally! Sometimes it feels like the opinions of a select few only ever come in one direction, without balance, acceptance or a proper consideration for all the factors at play.

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2 minutes ago, Coconut said:

Great post, it's hard to quantify.

I guess it depends on the individual?

Maybe when it's repeated so often that there hasn't been a reasonable amount of time given, or changes occured, between posts and it just feels like 'banging on' and as if the poster thinks we've all forgotten their opinion since the last time it was posted.

If we'd have lost 1-0 today, an identical performance aside from one penalty miss and one free kick, would there have been another pile-on? Cocu changed too much. Rooney should have been subbed off earlier.

If we'd have beaten Luton 2-1, an equally viable result on the overall performance, would the same arguments have taken place?

So may it's, but some just seem to take the negative side of the coin toss and make an absolute judgement on what did happen as opposed to what didn't.

I think most (sometimes overly positive) comments are in retaliation to such posts, rather than a concerted effort to be put forward the idea that the management can do no wrong.

It's late, my phone's about to die, I've had beer, so if I haven't explained myself too well I apologise.

Nobody really wants to fall out with other posters... generally! Sometimes it feels like the opinions of a select few only ever come in one durection, based on an ideal of what they want to seem

Excellent post...

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I will admit that when Rowett was in charge I still went most games but didn't enjoy the football even when we won as  I didn't feel like we were playing good football and wasn't enjoying it and even though I always get behind the team and have always been quite voiciferous that didn't stop  my support and would never stop but I was so happy when he went even though we made the play offs I didn't like the sit back style , Wolves away and home that season for example was pathetic even though Wolves were by far the best team in league

When Mac was here i never remember feeling like that after a defeat as i always thought we outplayed a lot of teams and was nice to watch and you can't win every game.

I feel there are fans on here who are similar to how i felt with Rowett so this may sound contradictory but i sort of understand fans not buying into Cocu as maybe they don't like his style etc etc and not everyone likes the same thing in life.

What people try and do is justify there dislike and the best time to do this is off of the back of a defeat or bad performance and there were plenty under Rowett for example

I firmly beleive that we could win 5 in a row and the fans that don't like Cocu's football will still enjoy the results but a bit like me with Rowett will never really be happy with Cocu as manager so the moment we lose or put in a bad performance will come on here and have there say...( there privelege )

To those fans that like Cocu that looks like they're having a go and are criticising all of the time and for the fans that don't rate Cocu's game like I didn't with Rowett they will feel like any negative comments against there opinion is telling/insinuating that they can't have there say/opinion....so it is a no win situation but we are all fans with different views and that is always healthy.

Island was wrong to apologise earlier for his Thread because he was having his say like everyone is entitled to and is no different to a " next manager " thread or a Cocu out or In thread , everyone sticks up for there beleifs and protects themselves if seemingly criticised...its just opinion ...no more no less 

We could win the league I still think some will find something not to there liking but as I said to balance it up if Rowett had won the play offs I still wouldn't have been totally happy or convinced by his football

Football is fine margins sometimes, we could've easily have beaten Luton yet lost to Norwich as @Coconut mentioned

Some on here repeat themselves over and over like we didn't realise we are missing CM or a striker and yes the football hasn't been great and yes I say give the man time and lets see where we are after christmas

Posts on here won't change most peoples inner feelings no matter what anyone  says as most people don't change there minds on certain things no matter what....but...today was a good day for us 

What is infuriating though is posters making Cocu out to be a manager who will turn good players into bad or coach this or that out of them.....I firmly beleive the youngsters in our squad are thriving under Cocu and today was Buchanan,Knight and Whittakers turn to show how well they are progressing ... I don't think we could have a better manager for there development 

 

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17 minutes ago, S8TY said:

sland was wrong to apologise earlier for his Thread because he was having his say like everyone is entitled to and is no different to a " next manager " thread or a Cocu out or In thread , everyone sticks up for there beleifs and protects themselves if seemingly criticised...its just opinion ...no more no less 

No he wasn’t. His thread was worded as a go at fans, not in support of a manager! 

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3 hours ago, Coconut said:

Absolutely..

And people who moaned and criticised constantly with no regard or rather disregard for context and the situation we found ourselves in, who now claim that they were justified in their often OTT criticism..

Arrogant nonsense.

Another unlosable argument though

We improve.. it's because they were right

We don't improve... It's because they were right.

People who back and trust the manager and didn't feel the need to make lengthy diatribes about all the things he was doing wrong, but instead trust  him to see the problems and attempt sort them.. hmm, blind faith!

You clearly can't cope with folk who take a different view to you, who see a different context to you. Plenty of diatribes from those backing the manager on here. No need for lengthy posts from anyone.

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2 hours ago, S8TY said:

I will admit that when Rowett was in charge I still went most games but didn't enjoy the football even when we won as  I didn't feel like we were playing good football and wasn't enjoying it and even though I always get behind the team and have always been quite voiciferous that didn't stop  my support and would never stop but I was so happy when he went even though we made the play offs I didn't like the sit back style , Wolves away and home that season for example was pathetic even though Wolves were by far the best team in league

When Mac was here i never remember feeling like that after a defeat as i always thought we outplayed a lot of teams and was nice to watch and you can't win every game.

I feel there are fans on here who are similar to how i felt with Rowett so this may sound contradictory but i sort of understand fans not buying into Cocu as maybe they don't like his style etc etc and not everyone likes the same thing in life.

What people try and do is justify there dislike and the best time to do this is off of the back of a defeat or bad performance and there were plenty under Rowett for example

I firmly beleive that we could win 5 in a row and the fans that don't like Cocu's football will still enjoy the results but a bit like me with Rowett will never really be happy with Cocu as manager so the moment we lose or put in a bad performance will come on here and have there say...( there privelege )

To those fans that like Cocu that looks like they're having a go and are criticising all of the time and for the fans that don't rate Cocu's game like I didn't with Rowett they will feel like any negative comments against there opinion is telling/insinuating that they can't have there say/opinion....so it is a no win situation but we are all fans with different views and that is always healthy.

Island was wrong to apologise earlier for his Thread because he was having his say like everyone is entitled to and is no different to a " next manager " thread or a Cocu out or In thread , everyone sticks up for there beleifs and protects themselves if seemingly criticised...its just opinion ...no more no less 

We could win the league I still think some will find something not to there liking but as I said to balance it up if Rowett had won the play offs I still wouldn't have been totally happy or convinced by his football

Football is fine margins sometimes, we could've easily have beaten Luton yet lost to Norwich as @Coconut mentioned

Some on here repeat themselves over and over like we didn't realise we are missing CM or a striker and yes the football hasn't been great and yes I say give the man time and lets see where we are after christmas

Posts on here won't change most peoples inner feelings no matter what anyone  says as most people don't change there minds on certain things no matter what....but...today was a good day for us 

What is infuriating though is posters making Cocu out to be a manager who will turn good players into bad or coach this or that out of them.....I firmly beleive the youngsters in our squad are thriving under Cocu and today was Buchanan,Knight and Whittakers turn to show how well they are progressing ... I don't think we could have a better manager for there development 

 

Thanks @S8TY. I didn't like the football under Rowett either but, like you, I still supported the Rams and wanted only success.

I want to correct one thing though. @Mostyn6 is correct to say that I was right to apologize for the nature of my thread.

I have tried to explain myself since but the point is that I do not have a problem with those that do not like Cocu or his style of football. Different opinions are fine. I do not mind the outers and doubters that put forward their concerns in a constructive way.

Where I have an issue is with those posts - and there have been a lot of them - that are just snide remarks like the one highlighted by @Archied.

However, the title of my thread was far from making that clear. And that's why I do apologise.

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7 hours ago, S8TY said:

I will admit that when Rowett was in charge I still went most games but didn't enjoy the football even when we won as  I didn't feel like we were playing good football and wasn't enjoying it and even though I always get behind the team and have always been quite voiciferous that didn't stop  my support and would never stop but I was so happy when he went even though we made the play offs I didn't like the sit back style , Wolves away and home that season for example was pathetic even though Wolves were by far the best team in league

When Mac was here i never remember feeling like that after a defeat as i always thought we outplayed a lot of teams and was nice to watch and you can't win every game.

I feel there are fans on here who are similar to how i felt with Rowett so this may sound contradictory but i sort of understand fans not buying into Cocu as maybe they don't like his style etc etc and not everyone likes the same thing in life.

What people try and do is justify there dislike and the best time to do this is off of the back of a defeat or bad performance and there were plenty under Rowett for example

I firmly beleive that we could win 5 in a row and the fans that don't like Cocu's football will still enjoy the results but a bit like me with Rowett will never really be happy with Cocu as manager so the moment we lose or put in a bad performance will come on here and have there say...( there privelege )

To those fans that like Cocu that looks like they're having a go and are criticising all of the time and for the fans that don't rate Cocu's game like I didn't with Rowett they will feel like any negative comments against there opinion is telling/insinuating that they can't have there say/opinion....so it is a no win situation but we are all fans with different views and that is always healthy.

Island was wrong to apologise earlier for his Thread because he was having his say like everyone is entitled to and is no different to a " next manager " thread or a Cocu out or In thread , everyone sticks up for there beleifs and protects themselves if seemingly criticised...its just opinion ...no more no less 

We could win the league I still think some will find something not to there liking but as I said to balance it up if Rowett had won the play offs I still wouldn't have been totally happy or convinced by his football

Football is fine margins sometimes, we could've easily have beaten Luton yet lost to Norwich as @Coconut mentioned

Some on here repeat themselves over and over like we didn't realise we are missing CM or a striker and yes the football hasn't been great and yes I say give the man time and lets see where we are after christmas

Posts on here won't change most peoples inner feelings no matter what anyone  says as most people don't change there minds on certain things no matter what....but...today was a good day for us 

What is infuriating though is posters making Cocu out to be a manager who will turn good players into bad or coach this or that out of them.....I firmly beleive the youngsters in our squad are thriving under Cocu and today was Buchanan,Knight and Whittakers turn to show how well they are progressing ... I don't think we could have a better manager for there development 

 

Very good and fair post , my biggest gripe with the cocu knocking stuff Is the fact that in my opinion that because of circumstances it’s far from conclusive how a true cocu team is going look in terms of style and entertainment, in lots of ways he’s come in and done a proper assessment of what we actually have at the club unlike those managers proceeding him recently to his own detriment in the eyes of some fans ,as such he hasn’t just spaffed a load of cash needlessly hence even the Martin issue has been balanced , he put him back in the team and wanted him to stay ,not enough in some fans opinions to break the bank but that’s opinions 

put that with the fact that I’ve seen us in some games under him where personaly I’ve been wowed by how we have played and could happily watch that kind of stuff all day long , only time will tell I guess

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7 hours ago, S8TY said:

Everyone can have there say no matter how you look at it

Ahh but you've contradicted yourself there, that's precisely what you seem to be allergic to people doing if they aren't singing Cocu's praises 100% of the time

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Love this forum.

Derby get stuffed, Cocu out brigade say I told you so.

Derby win against Norwich, Cocu in lot say I told you.

Football is fickle and opinions are like friends who support Liverpool, everyone's got one and their usually full of poo.

I'm going to enjoy the win and hope that the board decide to go with stability instead of keep chopping and changing the manager if it doesn't happen straight away on the pitch (I of course mean the Forest board)

 

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