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I’m new on here but have read the Forum regularly for several years. I’m also a season ticket holder up in the Gordon Guthrie.

The thing that seems to be causing the most angst currently amongst the faithful is some posters floating the idea that Cocu’s time is up and others, currently a majority, appalled that such a notion can be entertained so early in the season.

My view, for what it’s worth, is that I’d like to see the Cocu vision play out.

He’s not a rookie, he has form as a manager and he can wave his 100+ Dutch caps at anyone who thinks wasn’t a world class midfielder.

I’m in my mid fifties and saw us win two titles and also play division 3 football so perhaps the desperation for the top flight has been satisfied some what.Not to say I don’t want to see us there again.

Before me I see a side developing that could really do something. In my time supporting we have never had so many youngsters in and around the first team and the opportunity to watch them develop under Cocu is truly the essence of what football is all about.

Derby fan Sibley scoring a hatrick. Come on that’s Roy of the Rovers stuff and it was Cocu’s philosophy that allowed that.

That wouldn’t of happened under a results based ethos like Rowett or Clement. It takes a brave manager to bring in the kids because he has to take the flack if it doesn’t work.

I’d like to see if Cocu’s plan can work even if it means dicing with the drop.

I’ve seen them in div 3 before and I’ll go again if needs be.

But let’s not let this moment in time pass us by. Give Cocu and this young side a chance.

 

 

Edited by 24Charlie
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With Corona and our wage bill we will be screwed if we are relegated,  not worth thinking about because it would be the end of the line for all our best youngsters as they would all be sold to raise funds. The likes of Bielik, Jozwiak, Waghorn and Lawrence would all be gone. We would only be left with kids who are 17/18 who wouldn't be able to play well in league 1 and our worst players. Then once you are League 1 you can easily become stuck there like Sunderland or drop further like Portsmouth. 

Edited by Marriot Ram99
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There's been plenty of non rookie managers who have also failed at a football club. 

And please correct your statement that the majority are appalled that such a notion can be entertained so early in the season. Your statement implies that this was his first season here which obviously it's not and I would totally concur that to make a judgement on someone after 3 games in charge would be totally inappropriate.

But the fact is he's been here for a season before that as well which makes your original post somewhat misleading. 

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22 minutes ago, 24Charlie said:

I’m new on here but have read the Forum regularly for several years. I’m also a season ticket holder up in the Gordon Guthrie.

The thing that seems to be causing the most angst currently amongst the faithful is some posters floating the idea that Cocu’s time is up and others, currently a majority, appalled that such a notion can be entertained so early in the season.

My view, for what it’s worth, is that I’d like to see the Cocu vision play out.

He’s not a rookie, he has form as a manager and he can wave his 100+ Dutch caps at anyone who thinks wasn’t a world class midfielder.

I’m in my mid fifties and saw us win two titles and also play division 3 football so perhaps the desperation for the top flight has been satisfied some what.Not to say I don’t want to see us there again.

Before me I see a side developing that could really do something. In my time supporting we have never had so many youngsters in and around the first team and the opportunity to watch them develop under Cocu is truly the essence of what football is all about.

Derby fan Sibley scoring a hatrick. Come on that’s Roy of the Rovers stuff and it was Cocu’s philosophy that allowed that.

That wouldn’t of happened under a results based ethos like Rowett or Clement. It takes a brave manager to bring in the kids because he has to take the flack if it doesn’t work.

I’d like to see if Cocu’s plan can work even if it means dicing with the drop.

I’ve seen them in div 3 before and I’ll go again if needs be.

But let’s not let this moment in time pass us by. Give Cocu and this young side a chance.

 

 

So have and its a different world.

Today you wouldn't have a chance of a manager like Cox stepping down to the third tier.  You would never get players like Gregory stepping down two leagues only a year after an England cap.  No Micklewhites. Christies or Wallingtons . No davisons hanging around out of loyalty when other clubs come knocking just because we're in the top 20 clubs in the country - based on stats. There fragile ego and general narcissism couldn't cope.

We could well be playing Leyton Orient for years.  No thanks

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34 minutes ago, 24Charlie said:

I’m new on here but have read the Forum regularly for several years. I’m also a season ticket holder up in the Gordon Guthrie.

The thing that seems to be causing the most angst currently amongst the faithful is some posters floating the idea that Cocu’s time is up and others, currently a majority, appalled that such a notion can be entertained so early in the season.

My view, for what it’s worth, is that I’d like to see the Cocu vision play out.

He’s not a rookie, he has form as a manager and he can wave his 100+ Dutch caps at anyone who thinks wasn’t a world class midfielder.

I’m in my mid fifties and saw us win two titles and also play division 3 football so perhaps the desperation for the top flight has been satisfied some what.Not to say I don’t want to see us there again.

Before me I see a side developing that could really do something. In my time supporting we have never had so many youngsters in and around the first team and the opportunity to watch them develop under Cocu is truly the essence of what football is all about.

Derby fan Sibley scoring a hatrick. Come on that’s Roy of the Rovers stuff and it was Cocu’s philosophy that allowed that.

That wouldn’t of happened under a results based ethos like Rowett or Clement. It takes a brave manager to bring in the kids because he has to take the flack if it doesn’t work.

I’d like to see if Cocu’s plan can work even if it means dicing with the drop.

I’ve seen them in div 3 before and I’ll go again if needs be.

But let’s not let this moment in time pass us by. Give Cocu and this young side a chance.

 

 

we have to survive and a few years ago relegation might have ht the reset button needed to gain some momentum, now? relegation would be very dangerous

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I was constantly told on here as long as we blood the youngsters from the Academy results would be secondary.

Get rid of the dead wood was a common theme. 
 

Cut costs another. 
 

Now all of a sudden a few bad results and people want Cocu sacked .

To be fair not the majority which I have started to realize.  
 

Derby could have got a 12 point deduction like Sheff We’d and then relegation could have been an issue especially if we had a transfer embargo .

Thankfully we were only working under a soft embargo allegedly and we hav been found not guilty.

Having said that too many youngster all at once is not preferable but Cocu has had little choice until senior players get fit. 
 

The youngsters will come good in the end as they are talented but it takes time. 
 

I don’t see any reason to be too down particularly if we get a decent striker in 

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2 minutes ago, Curtains said:

.

Thankfully we were only working under a soft embargo allegedly and we hav been found not guilty.

 

under appeal, not gone away although I would be very surprised if we received a points penalty but who knows?

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It’s clear from early replies that the romance has gone from some and it’s not a shock.
For me it’s still there. We win, we lose my support is unconditional. I’ve never booed nor left early.

Every season is different we always seem to have something to play for whether it be up or down.

If posters don’t agree that’s fine. I’m new I thought I introduce myself with my opinion on Cocu.
I look forward to contributing more in the future.

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3 minutes ago, Spanish said:

under appeal, not gone away although I would be very surprised if we received a points penalty but who knows?

Well I do agree but I hoping for the best.   

As it stands though we can deal in the transfer market as no type of embargo during the appeal 

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46 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

There's been plenty of non rookie managers who have also failed at a football club. 

And please correct your statement that the majority are appalled that such a notion can be entertained so early in the season. Your statement implies that this was his first season here which obviously it's not and I would totally concur that to make a judgement on someone after 3 games in charge would be totally inappropriate.

But the fact is he's been here for a season before that as well which makes your original post somewhat misleading. 

Does it? In what possible way does it imply that?

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54 minutes ago, 24Charlie said:

Derby fan Sibley scoring a hatrick. Come on that’s Roy of the Rovers stuff and it was Cocu’s philosophy that allowed that.

True and we did play some nice passing football that day. You could see what cocu was trying to do. I just wish we could do it quicker and more consistently in every game we play.

55 minutes ago, 24Charlie said:

I’d like to see if Cocu’s plan can work even if it means dicing with the drop.

I’ve seen them in div 3 before and I’ll go again if needs be.

No. Just no. We would bee in serious serious trouble if that was to happen as one poster has already said. The club would go into complete shutdown, our already thin squad would be absolutely decimated and a lot of fans won't return. 

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13 minutes ago, nottingram said:

Does it? In what possible way does it imply that?

Quote appalled that such a notion can be entertained so early in the season unquote.

What relevance is it so early in the season unless he's only been here from the start of the season. The judgement should be made over the course of the tenure not 3 games.

Or if I want to avoid a pedantic debate I'll put implies in my opinion. There you go. 

Edited by Tyler Durden
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We wont get relegated, not even close, we will end up another season of mid table nothingness..... 

ask a Newcastle fan if those seasons under Keegan would have been better if they had actually won anything... of course it is better, ask an Arsenal fan if all those years under George Graham if they would rather have NOT won the league but played amazing football and they would all say no....its ALL about winning...... but having said that honestly, I don't want to go up,  I would much rather hang around in this division forever winning a few, losing a few, drawing a few...its where we deserve to be, its our rightful place and it is the home of real football in England.

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10 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Quote appalled that such a notion can be entertained so early in the season unquote.

What relevance is it so early in the season unless he's only been here from the start of the season. The judgement should be made over the course of the tenure not 3 games.

Or if I want to avoid a pedantic debate I'll put implies in my opinion. There you go. 

Pedantic debates are your speciality so I wouldn’t worry about that, but don’t be alarmed as I had assumed it was your opinion rather than anyone else’s. 

That said I am still not sure I understand your point. I would consider last season to have been acceptable to good with a number of mitigating circumstances and so I think many would allow Cocu some leeway based on that? Mel clearly agrees and has entrusted him to continue with his vision.

I am comfortable that many of last seasons mitigating circumstances e.g. Joinersgate, are now behind us with those who left off the back of it now replaced, and so am largely happy to judge Cocu on the here and now albeit the soft embargo was far from ideal and may or may not have seen us miss out on targets. Again though, that is now behind us.

That said I don’t see the relevance of you picking up that it is misleading to say it is early in the season. It IS early in the season and that remains the case whether he has 0, 1 or 15 years behind him in the job. He has (rightly imo) been trusted to carry on his work and has been backed as such in the transfer window and so I believe the OP was correct in his notion that the majority would be appalled at sacking him this early in the season. Sacking him based on last years work would have been a travesty. And so we judge him on this season, so far it is absolutely not good enough but like pointed out, very early. If we are still performing this way in a month or two then I think quite rightly the opinions of the majority will sway because short term performance will not justify what we hope the long term benefits of retaining Cocu will be. 

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1 minute ago, nottingram said:

Pedantic debates are your speciality so I wouldn’t worry about that, but don’t be alarmed as I had assumed it was your opinion rather than anyone else’s. 

You missed out in your opinion 🙂

But yes broadly agree with everything you've said I just read it that we were knee jerking after 3 games when we've had a season to review how Cocu sets up his side, motivates them, tactics etc.

Let's see what the next few weeks brings. 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Quote appalled that such a notion can be entertained so early in the season unquote.

What relevance is it so early in the season unless he's only been here from the start of the season. The judgement should be made over the course of the tenure not 3 games.

Or if I want to avoid a pedantic debate I'll put implies in my opinion. There you go. 

In my opinion (🙂) this is the first window that he has had to make his mark by purchasing the players that he believes will make us better. He did not have that opportunity last season.

He has also had to ‘wheel and deal’ by letting players (some of which fans -and maybe he- would have perhaps wanted to stay) go for the greater good. 

This is all ‘big picture’ stuff, and has been said in the past a four year project. If you think this is bad, I can remember watching them lose at home 4-1 to Carlisle in 1983 which for me was as bad as it got. I too can remember the Division 3 days. 

So, no, in my opinion I don’t think it’s reasonable to judge Cocu on his whole tenure when he is doing a major piece of surgery on a side, that, if we are being honest has failed for years to get promoted.
 

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1 hour ago, Curtains said:

I was constantly told on here as long as we blood the youngsters from the Academy results would be secondary.

Get rid of the dead wood was a common theme. 
 

Cut costs another. 
 

Now all of a sudden a few bad results and people want Cocu sacked .

To be fair not the majority which I have started to realize.  
 

Derby could have got a 12 point deduction like Sheff We’d and then relegation could have been an issue especially if we had a transfer embargo .

Thankfully we were only working under a soft embargo allegedly and we hav been found not guilty.

Having said that too many youngster all at once is not preferable but Cocu has had little choice until senior players get fit. 
 

The youngsters will come good in the end as they are talented but it takes time. 
 

I don’t see any reason to be too down particularly if we get a decent striker in 

Well said Curtains - you're quite right that there should be constancy in our behaviours. I believe I thought we should blood some younguns and I stand by that, but you are being proved correct that it is no panacea and we must have the courage of our convictions or shut up about them in the first place!

You feeling any better?

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