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Cocu or Rowett

Curtains

By Curtains
in Derby County Forum

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Chris_Martin

Chris_Martin

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Curtains said:

Now coming from me this could be interesting.

Cocu is more long term and that’s why MM hired him 

Rowett wanted success short term .

I like them both and Frank really impressed me. 

I'm all for giving a manager time, but there has to be at least some glimpses of quality and signs of progress over the first year. So far i haven't really seen any. 

We do need to give a manager time but for me Cocu is not the right one. 

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Millenniumram

Millenniumram

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, Coconut said:

 

Yeah, dead simple!

Since they reappointed Nathan Jones (who was on his way to relegating Stoke let's not forget, so clearly a poo manager / motivator given their squad!) all of Preston, Leeds, Swansea, Reading, Huddersfield, QPR, Hull (what does losing your top scorer and best winger matter, huh?) Blackburn & Norwich have failed to beat Luton.

OK, Reading did, last season - they won 5-0 at Kenilworth Rd late in the season but lost to them at home this season.

The only teams to beat Luton since June are Reading, Man Utd & Watford.

We actually played pretty well against them second half, the game could have gone either way but it's another that's been rewritten as 'poo' 'backwards, sidewards' in its entirety.

It’s more excuses though. If they can get results with the squad they’ve got, why can’t we? Don’t think you’ll find anyone who will argue that Luton have a better squad than us. But Nathan Jones has done a very good job there, no doubt about it. You can then bring it right round full circle to Cocu, and ask why he can’t get better results with our squad, when Nathan Jones can get decent results with a poor Luton side? Does that show that he’s a better manager than Cocu? Does it show what we could achieve with a better manager in charge? I don’t think it’s as simple as that by the way, nor do I think all the answers to those questions are “yes”, just showing there’s an argument that can be made there.

FWIW I wasn’t really moaning about the result or performance against Luton. That wasn’t the point. It was a better performance than the other two league games, and Luton isn’t an easy place to go, I agree. I was more moaning at the constant excuses about injuries, too many young players etc etc, rather than just admitting we weren’t good enough.

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May Contain Nuts

May Contain Nuts

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

It’s more excuses though. If they can get results with the squad they’ve got, why can’t we? Don’t think you’ll find anyone who will argue that Luton have a better squad than us. But Nathan Jones has done a very good job there, no doubt about it. You can then bring it right round full circle to Cocu, and ask why he can’t get better results with our squad, when Nathan Jones can get decent results with a poor Luton side?Does that show that he’s a better manager than Cocu? Does it show what we could achieve with a better manager in charge? I don’t think it’s as simple as that by the way, nor do I think all the answers to those questions are “yes”, just showing there’s an argument that can be made there.

FWIW I wasn’t really moaning about the result or performance against Luton. That wasn’t the point. It was a better performance than the other two league games, and Luton isn’t an easy place to go, I agree. I was more moaning at the constant excuses about injuries, too many young players etc etc, rather than just admitting we weren’t good enough.

Why all the waffle?  What excuse, I haven't made one?

I've presented some evidence that it isn't 'simpl' to beat Luton, regardless of who your manager is or how strong your squad is... and quite predictable you've gone straight into "how can I turn this into a criticism of Cocu" mode.

If Nathan Jones can do wonders at Luton, why was he so awful at Stoke? Maybe it's nothing to do with the  individual 'quality' of manager or the quality of players afterall, but a far wider issue.

 

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Millenniumram

Millenniumram

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Coconut said:

Why all the waffle?  What excuse, I haven't mad one?

 

 

It wasn’t directly referring to you, just some of the posts I’ve seen in the match threads etc. But, it still seems a bit of an excuse to suggest because Luton are in form were always going to struggle to beat them. The relative squad quality should still give us a more than decent chance.

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May Contain Nuts

May Contain Nuts

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

It wasn’t directly referring to you, just some of the posts I’ve seen in the match threads etc. But, it still seems a bit of an excuse to suggest because Luton are in form were always going to struggle to beat them. The relative squad quality should still give us a more than decent chance.

there's more to my original post - edited after hitting submit too early.

We had a more than decent chance - if JHI slots it under the keeper we go 2-1 up after 85 minutes! (umless I'm misremembering)

Why do you feel the need to turn absolutely everything into a criticism of Cocu?

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Rammy03

Rammy03

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

It’s more excuses though. If they can get results with the squad they’ve got, why can’t we?

It's not even about the results, it's the fact that performances have been shocking since the back end of last season with no improvement or glimpses of hope on the field. If we were having a go at teams with the right application but just lacking a bit of quality, I could understand losing. But it's not that. The football is dire. We should be playing better on the football pitch with what we have available. Cocu has to take responsibility for that. 

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Millenniumram

Millenniumram

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Coconut said:

there's more to my original post - edited after hitting submit too early.

We had a more than decent chance - if JHI slots it under the keeper we go 2-1 up after 85 minutes! (umless I'm misremembering)

Why do you feel the need to turn absolutely everything into a criticism of Cocu?

I’m not turning anything into a criticism of Cocu. I’m moaning about the constant excuses being made to defend him and the team when we haven’t performed. If somethings crap, it’s crap, no more excuses. I’ve defended Cocu on a few threads today, and as I’ve said before, I might have my doubts, but I’m not Cocu out at the moment. 

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May Contain Nuts

May Contain Nuts

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

I’m not turning anything into a criticism of Cocu. I’m moaning about the constant excuses being made to defend him and the team when we haven’t performed. If somethings crap, it’s crap, no more excuses. I’ve defended Cocu on a few threads today, and as I’ve said before, I might have my doubts, but I’m not Cocu out at the moment. 

I mean... it's literally what you just did.

But fair enough, we'll leave it.

 

 

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Rampage20

Rampage20

Posted
Posted

People saying sack Cocu then what?pay him and his back room staff up for the rest of the 4 year contracts?I think frank gets away very lightly with how he’s remembered having started a play off final with mason Bennett as lone striker?.I think people also forget the amount of deadwood he left Cocu with  his signings zoon,Malone being two players that spring to mind brought for around £5m.Take the 3 loan players out and do you think he have made play offs?people just think beating Leeds when they think Lampard not villa away!

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europia

europia

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, ViewsFromTheMiddle said:

Wasn’t a Rowett fan, but would choose him comfortably over what we’re seeing now.

A lot of fans were critical of Rowett, but given reasonable backing, I feel he has the capability to get a club like Derby promoted. It didn't work out as he opted for Stoke with a big budget, rather than Mel's 'we are going to play the kids' approach, which probably wouldn't have worked for Gary. 

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minesahartington

minesahartington

Posted
Posted
39 minutes ago, Rammy03 said:

It's not even about the results, it's the fact that performances have been shocking since the back end of last season with no improvement or glimpses of hope on the field. If we were having a go at teams with the right application but just lacking a bit of quality, I could understand losing. But it's not that. The football is dire. We should be playing better on the football pitch with what we have available. Cocu has to take responsibility for that. 

We should give him the 4 years. At some point he can only get better

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Tyler Durden

Tyler Durden

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, Rampage20 said:

People saying sack Cocu then what?pay him and his back room staff up for the rest of the 4 year contracts?I think frank gets away very lightly with how he’s remembered having started a play off final with mason Bennett as lone striker?.I think people also forget the amount of deadwood he left Cocu with  his signings zoon,Malone being two players that spring to mind brought for around £5m.Take the 3 loan players out and do you think he have made play offs?people just think beating Leeds when they think Lampard not villa away!

I haven't seen many posters advocate sacking Cocu, I have though seen a lot of noise saying that he should be managing the resources available to him more effectively.

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Rammed79

Rammed79

Posted
Posted

Rowett-ball was garbage and what Cocu has served up so far has been pretty dire but the constant sacking off managers hasn't really helped us in the past and I dont think it will in the future. It would cost a fortune to pay him off and even more to restructure the squad in a new managers vision and in the current financial environment that could be disastrous . I have been extremely disappointed with the way things have gone but realistically our best option is probably to stick with it and find some optimism from somewhere.

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