Cocu or Rowett

[Ambitious]

Rowett was a decent manager for us, no two ways about it, but he ruined himself with his short-term vision. He didn't buy players that would help the club progress and he put more emphasis on results than player progression. Cocu has a long-term vision and in his previous job he won the division 3 times in 5 seasons whilst making £100m on player sales and continually progressing players. 

Cocu is obviously the better choice for the long-term health and direction of the football club and for the careers of the players under his wing. Rowett would've started this season better with THIS team for sure. He's doing more with less at Millwall. 

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

That has to be seen as a decent achievement, even though he had a quality and experienced squad which made his job easier compared to Cocu.

No Rowett fan, but in football the ends justifies the means! ? That's why I'd have wanted Warnock a few seasons ago, no doubt we'd have gone up. ?

[Marriot Ram99]

Cocu is only good for the long term future of the club if fans want to try the pies at Accrington Stanley and have a tour of tinpot  garden shed grounds in league 1 next year. 

[Curtains]

10 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

Er...... Steve McClaren?

I thought Stevie MAC did a great job taking over Nigel’s team. 

Lets face it Nigel did a good job at Derby and so did Mac. 

I had views on both but I’m not the Chairman 

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

Rowett was a decent manager for us, no two ways about it, but he ruined himself with his short-term vision... Cocu has a long-term vision and in his previous job he won the division 3 times in 5 seasons whilst making £100m on player sales

How much would we have made if we'd gone up with short-term vision?

[Rammy03]

9 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Expectations are quite rightly higher this season though, so Cocu won’t have so many excuses to hide behind.

But he will because half the fanbase are blaming it on injuries. If they return and we're still crap it'll be 'new players need time to get up to speed.' The excuses never end for this bloke and I can't figure out why. I want him to succeed I really do but no one is bigger than the club. These performances have to be criticised for what they are, an absolute shambles.

[Millenniumram]

33 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

No Rowett fan, but in football the ends justifies the means! ? That's why I'd have wanted Warnock a few seasons ago, no doubt we'd have gone up. ?

Not sure I’d stretch as far as wanting Warnock here, but I do agree with your general point. Football is a results business, if you’re not getting wins, there’s no point in playing. Harsh as it sounds, I don’t really give a damn about the academy and all that sort of thing. I’d happily watch a load of highly paid mercenaries if it got us success. I want to be seeing us win football matches and move up the leagues. Using young players and an attractive style would be preferable. But frankly, if it gets us success, I don’t care how we do it.

[YorkshireRam]

1 hour ago, Rammy03 said:

But the point is we did have Vydra, and Rowett got the best out of what he had

Cocu had to deal with our record signing sustaining a long term injury early in the season. If the same had happened with Rowett, do you think we would still have got top 6? That's my entire point

[YorkshireRam]

1 hour ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

We scored 3 or more goals in 11 games the 17/18 season.  Granted you get an abhoration or two- Sunderland and Bristol away spring to mind.  If we only got in the playoffs at maximum effectiveness, is that not what you expect from a manager, getting the most from whats avaliable.

I see neither of the above currently. 

Again ''what's available'', my entire point is the strength of the squad for the 2 was so vastly different as to nearly be incomparable. Rowett was lucky with injuries, Cocu has been unlucky. Rowett put the club in a position where we had to get promoted quickly because of the ageing squad, Cocu's plan is much more sustainable and puts us in a far stronger position long term. Simply comparing results without considering the context is slightly reductionist...

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

Couldn't abide rowett or his football...just awful to watch,an abysmal idea by Mel to bring him in,one of his worst.

I'm just disappointed by Cocus football up to now....I'm an advocate of the Dutch style of football,it's a type of football that,when played properly,can be sublime.

Our football though reminds so much of Clements,slow,lethargic and lacking confidence.

I just hope that with a new striker and the rest of the squad returning to fitness that it improves and the teams confidence builds.

His tenure needs to be judged by the teams improvement in play and with an objective eye and I personally think the click is ticking so it needs to start showing soon.

[Rammy03]

4 minutes ago, YorkshireRam said:

Cocu had to deal with our record signing sustaining a long term injury early in the season. If the same had happened with Rowett, do you think we would still have got top 6?

Maybe not but that's irrelevant. Regardless of outside factors, Rowett had a style of play that was effective. The players knew what they were doing and weren't lackluster week in week out.

[Mostyn6]

I do worry that Mel’s legacy, quite unfairly, will be as the man who messed up the McClaren rein, twice. 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

4 minutes ago, YorkshireRam said:

Again ''what's available'', my entire point is the strength of the squad for the 2 was so vastly different as to nearly be incomparable. Rowett was lucky with injuries, Cocu has been unlucky. Rowett put the club in a position where we had to get promoted quickly because of the ageing squad, Cocu's plan is much more sustainable and puts us in a far stronger position long term. Simply comparing results without considering the context is slightly reductionist...

Afraid we have to disagree on that one.  With what's available we shouldn't have scored one goal  in 5 games against pretty mediocre opposition and conceded three in three minutes against a bog standard mid table side.  We are still in a position where we need to get promoted quickly because were losing money hand over fist/ if any young players do come on we will need to sell  to balance liability and we are back to square one . Promotion out of this league is the only way to be sustainable, even if you bomb you get a fortune. If you don't, long term your just a feeder club.

The plan isn't sustainable if people are turning off in droves,   Its an unprecedented turn of events, as amongst the occasional purple spell the fans of this club have turned up on masse to watch some of the most turgid toss available over the last 40 yrs.   They are losing interest at rates I've not encountered before. 

Looking at this team they aren't showing anything sustainable play wise, there barely putting a string of passes together.

[Comrade 86]

I backed Rowett for some of the same reasons I'm backing Cocu, the principle one being that folk were calling for his head way too early and that continuity is what I felt we needed. the football wasn't great at times but in the end I felt partly vindicated as he got us to the play-offs. Cocu has a very different strategy and after last season's woes deserves the chance to try and build a team to match his vision. If he fails given that chance then fair enough, he has to go and no amount of hysterical screeching from some quarters will shake that belief, especially 3 games into a 46 game season.

[Coneheadjohn]

Some very well crafted threads on here at the moment which are almost worthy of a poll in their own right.

My answer to this question at this moment is,a poke in the eye or a kick in the knackers,take your pick.

[Comrade 86]

15 minutes ago, Van Cone De Head said:

Some very well crafted threads on here at the moment which are almost worthy of a poll in their own right.

My answer to this question at this moment is,a poke in the eye or a kick in the knackers,take your pick.

I'll go for the poke in the eye please John ?

[cannable]

Think the Rowett season’s a bit overrated. 

We picked up 13 points from out first ten games and 18 points from our last sixteen games. 

We had a freakishly good run of mid-season form. 

We stumbled across Vydra, we didn’t go into the season expecting him to be first choice and he’d petered out by the end of the season pretty much. 

We didn’t seem to have a system either. Just round legs in round holes. 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

As i have said on another thread our youngsters are not going to project us up the league just yet. They are struggling to make the grade at championship level. Put our youngsters collectively into Rowetts team and we would have been nowhere near playoffs. We are comparing apples with pears. 

[cheron85]

3 hours ago, Curtains said:

Cocu is more long term and that’s why MM hired him 

Rowett wanted success short term .

Cocu - Easy choice

At the moment we're not doing well - But the intent behind the way Cocu wants to play is light years ahead of Rowett's defensive, counter-attack play

I fully admit this is an IF rather than WHEN - But if it comes together for Cocu we could be a force - Under Rowett we got as far as we were ever going to

3 hours ago, Rammy03 said:

Rowetts football was better than what we're currently watching, it was effective and got results. In hindsight yes it didn't help us in the long term, but we had a good chance of promotion.

I strongly disagree - The Fulham away game showed what we were - Efficient and hard working but no quality - Exactly the definition of a Rowett side - Fulham showed what a difference some quality made and they should have beaten us by a lot more than 2 0

[YorkshireRam]

1 hour ago, Rammy03 said:

Maybe not but that's irrelevant. Regardless of outside factors, Rowett had a style of play that was effective. The players knew what they were doing and weren't lackluster week in week out.

My entire point is that outside factors have played a big part in the relative success of both managers (or the lack thereof in Rowett's case). You can't just dismiss that when the point is Rowett always had his best players available which enabled his sides to be effective. I'm not sure Cocu has had the luxury of a full strength, first choice XI once...