Cocu in!

[IslandExile]

20 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

I'm wanting to give this as much of a chance to work as possible. 

But it's been a very poor start to the season. 

At the end of the last season we did play and lose to all the top teams in a short space of time, showing us where we were at. However, we all thought and hoped we'd be starting this season a bit further into the project and be starting to look better at it. But it's looked and felt so bad these three games. 

It needs to click soon, or at the very least show signs that it's going to work.

Do you remember the transfer embargo?

It took longer than we'd hope to bring in the new players. Now, we're trying to get them fit. Similarly, we're still trying to get the attacking players fit.

Do you not make allowances for any of that?

Yes, the performances have been poor. But there are reasons. It's not just black and white (see what I did there?).

[Matlock Old Ram]

Come on guys just remember that under Cocu we were top of the form league until lockdown even though we were under a soft embargo. Since then we have lost experienced players and are trying to catch up with our recruitment. Cut the club and manager some slack and keep the faith. Some people are too quick to criticise others

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, IslandExile said:

We know that Chris Martin turned down the offer of a new contract and that has upset you (and me - he would be great in this side) but, aside from him, the sale of the fullbacks was necessary in order to wheel and deal. The majority of people have been pleased with the new signings. Though some of the academy players had made the occasional appearances, most people agree that Cocu's method of introducing them is for their benefit and the club's.

Do you not give him any credit for that rebuilding programme?

Sure. But the point is what he does with it, otherwise he's just Clough Jnr II. 

[BucksRam]

He's an IN for me despite the pain of the 1st 3 games.   A number of players haven't performed - this will change.  Get Bielik, Ibe, Lawrence, Waggy all fit.  Joziak yet to fully bed in but already looking good. Te Wierik still finding his feet as is Byrne.  Duncan could be a hidden gem in time.  

Don't get me wrong.  I HATE us losing. Yes we also need a new striker but there is definitely a plan and I for one want to see it in action.....  

[DCFC27]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

Not 100% sure, Mel isn't as trigger happy as some think, and if there were signs of progress (although no points) and Cocu didn't get chummy and laugh with opposing managers, then I think Mel might hold off.

Tbf since Cocu has been running things he hasn’t actually sacked anyone, the sackings happened as Sam Rush was making the decisions. 

[RadioactiveWaste]

49 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

Do you remember the transfer embargo?

It took longer than we'd hope to bring in the new players. Now, we're trying to get them fit. Similarly, we're still trying to get the attacking players fit.

Do you not make allowances for any of that?

Yes, the performances have been poor. But there are reasons. It's not just black and white (see what I did there?).

I get all of that.

I'm a true believer suffering doubt at the minute.

[IslandExile]

26 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Sure. But the point is what he does with it, otherwise he's just Clough Jnr II. 

 

8 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

I get all of that.

I'm a true believer suffering doubt at the minute.

I can understand the doubts that you both express. There are things that puzzle and concern me and I'm big on Cocu-in.

But, come on, just 3 games in. We still do not have the new signings or the injured players back in the team. There is still a piece missing from the jigsaw (CF, though I think there's also a case for a LB). I think @86 Schmokes & a Pancake said give him two years.....I think that's fair, especially after the first season which was beyond farce.

[RadioactiveWaste]

To be fair, I don't think Nigel Clough analogy is too bad a thing, in terms of the job Cocu has to do, it's not dissimilar.

I had a lot of time for Nigel and the work for did, and I do have time for what Cocu wants to do. It's just, you know, it's looked and felt so bad the games played so far.

Things will get better.

[DanS1992]

3 hours ago, Woodley Ram said:

I'm getting p******d off with it as well, for once you can see what a manger is building, the signings do not seem random but with a purpose.  He is doing this with also bringing through youngsters, getting rid of the high earners and a load of injuries to key players, drink drive incidents, transfer embargos......shall I go on. things will improve, a striker will come , the new players and the injured will fit into the team and adapt to what he wants. we will be in and around the top 6......too many Lemmings on this site. Back Cocu and the Rams    

More excuses. Yawn ? 

Yes he has had his fair share of problems, but the excuses can only go on for a certain amount of time. What will it be next when all the players return? The grass on the training pitch is too long so it is impossible to replicate the style of play on matchday?

No don't get me wrong, I and I think many others like the bloke, but simply put, he has to do better with what he has got at his disposal. Even without Bielik, Lawrence etc, Cocu should be getting so much more out of the current squad. Currently we are awful to watch, slow, ponderous and defensively frail. Let's not forget some downright strange tactics.

I would love to imagine that everything will click when the players that are injured return and when we get the new striker, but based on what we have seen for the past year, I sincerely doubt it (and I do hope I am wrong). I think at lot of fans are putting to much expectation on the returning players to change things, and I strongly suspect that not much will change (again I hope I am wrong).The most worrisome thing is that even with the current new signings, the slow, sideways style of play is still present, so I don't see how the returnees will change things. Even the players retained from last season are still playing this way, which makes me really put any future improvement in serious doubt. 

Now I am not Cocu out just yet (and I am very very close to changing my stance on that), but things need to drastically improve and fast. Fans also need to stop making excuses on his behalf and expect more from Cocu, because even with the current squad, he has more than enough to be doing significantly better.

[Spanish]

2 hours ago, Rammy03 said:

He'll be forced out by the fans. No points in 10 games and his position becomes untenable. If there were real signs of progress the wins would come pretty quickly.

first 10, doesn't look especially easy, surely we are going to some luck somewhere

12/09/2020 15:00 Reading (h)

19/09/2020 15:00 Luton Town (a)

26/09/2020 15:00 Blackburn Rovers (h)

03/10/2020 15:00 Norwich City (a)

17/10/2020 15:00 Watford (h)

21/10/2020 19:45 Huddersfield Town (a)

24/10/2020 15:00 Nottingham Forest (a)

28/10/2020 19:45 Cardiff City (h)

31/10/2020 15:00 A.F.C. Bournemouth (a)

04/11/2020 19:45 Queens Park Rangers (h)

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

2 minutes ago, DanS1992 said:

More excuses. Yawn ? 

Yes he has had his fair share of problems, but the excuses can only go on for a certain amount of time. What will it be next when all the players return? The grass on the training pitch is too long so it is impossible to replicate the style of play on matchday?

No don't get me wrong, I and I think many others like the bloke, but simply put, he has to do better with what he has got at his disposal. Even without Bielik, Lawrence etc, Cocu should be getting so much more out of the current squad. Currently we are awful to watch, slow, ponderous and defensively frail. Let's not forget some downright strange tactics.

I would love to imagine that everything will click when the players that are injured return and when we get the new striker, but based on what we have seen for the past year, I sincerely doubt it (and I do hope I am wrong). I think at lot of fans are putting to much expectation on the returning players to change things, and I strongly suspect that not much will change (again I hope I am wrong).The most worrisome thing is that even with the current new signings, the slow, sideways style of play is still present, so I don't see how the returnees will change things. Even the players retained from last season are still playing this way, which makes me really put any future improvement in serious doubt. 

Now I am not Cocu out just yet, but things need to drastically improve and fast. Fans also need to stop making excuses on his behalf and expect more of Cocu, because even with the current squad, he has more that enough ro be doing significantly better.

I think the thing is that the missing players are all key players. If I challenge you to a 10m sprint but you have to have one leg tied up behind you and I don't do you have a legitimate excuse if you don't win? 

[Rammy03]

7 minutes ago, DanS1992 said:

More excuses. Yawn ? 

Yes he has had his fair share of problems, but the excuses can only go on for a certain amount of time. What will it be next when all the players return? The grass on the training pitch is too long so it is impossible to replicate the style of play on matchday?

No don't get me wrong, I and I think many others like the bloke, but simply put, he has to do better with what he has got at his disposal. Even without Bielik, Lawrence etc, Cocu should be getting so much more out of the current squad. Currently we are awful to watch, slow, ponderous and defensively frail. Let's not forget some downright strange tactics.

I would love to imagine that everything will click when the players that are injured return and when we get the new striker, but based on what we have seen for the past year, I sincerely doubt it (and I do hope I am wrong). I think at lot of fans are putting to much expectation on the returning players to change things, and I strongly suspect that not much will change (again I hope I am wrong).The most worrisome thing is that even with the current new signings, the slow, sideways style of play is still present, so I don't see how the returnees will change things. Even the players retained from last season are still playing this way, which makes me really put any future improvement in serious doubt. 

Now I am not Cocu out just yet (and I am very very close to changing my stance on that), but things need to drastically improve and fast. Fans also need to stop making excuses on his behalf and expect more from Cocu, because even with the current squad, he has more that enough to be doing significantly better.

Brilliant post couldn't have put it any better

[Rammy03]

6 minutes ago, Spanish said:

first 10, doesn't look especially easy, surely we are going to some luck somewhere

No it's not but if we get absolutely no points from it, something is seriously wrong

[Anag Ram]

Too many lost lambs, not enough rams! 

Need Bielik, Shinnie, Waghorn etc back and firing. 

I think we still need a centre half like a Morrison from Cardiff who dominates and organises the back four. 

All too nice and lacking in urgency at the moment. 

The soft belly that has undermined our performance for years. 

[Marriot Ram99]

As I've said before for me, no points from the next 2 =bye bye Cocu. 

We are not ducking Wycombe or Rotherham a few players out shouldn't be the difference between being around the top six and playing like an absolute disgrace that won't pick up any points. Some fans after all our signings and further additions to come would probably think that Cocu will have done a good job to get us 14th in yet another transition season, then if a few  are injured next summer and pre season is not perfect then it will be another season of transition with 11th place being good progress for 21/22.

Top 10 should be the bare minimum expectation looking like a league 1 team with a few players out does not say much about current management, on paper we still should be good enough to finish around 12th with what  we had available for Saturday. Malone and Bennett start for Millwall and they will be around the top 6, because their manager knows how to make the most out of the tools he's is given. 

[Comrade 86]

21 minutes ago, DanS1992 said:

Fans also need to stop making excuses on his behalf

Fans don't need to do anything just because you think they should. How about you state your opinion and allow others to do the same? That's generally how forums tend to work. Once we have the last couple of signings and a few key players back, fit and match sharp, that's when I'll be forming hard and fast opinions, if that's OK with you?

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

2 minutes ago, Marriott Ram99 said:

As I've said before for me, no points from the next 2 =bye bye Cocu. 

We re not ducking Wycombe or Rotherham a few players out shouldn't be the difference between being around the top six and playing like an absolute disgrace that won't pick up any points. Top 10 should be the bare minimum expectation looking like a league 1 team with a few players out does not say much about current management, on paper we still should be good enough to finish around 12th with what  we had available for Saturday. Malone and Bennett start for Millwall and they will be around the top 6, because their manager knows how to make the most out of the tools he's is given. 

Our attacking play is relying on too many kids who are CURRENTLY probably just about good enough for this division/league 1. Not blaming them and hopefully they will improve but if you think about it we have Buchannan, Knight, Sibley, Bird, Whittaker JHI in and around the team. Putting it bluntly they are not going to drive us forward. Only one or two of the lads should be in the squad but currently due the the financial realities and the current injuries/fitness issues the club has to operate with what we have.

In my opinion the manager is trying his best to make a silk purse out of a sows ear. Please give him a break!

[DanS1992]

8 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Fans don't need to do anything just because you think they should. How about you state your opinion and allow others to do the same? That's generally how forums tend to work. Once we have the last couple of signings and a few key players back, fit and match sharp, that's when I'll be forming hard and fast opinions, if that's OK with you?

Do what you like, I don't care. I was just stating my OPINION as you put it, and in MY OPINION, I just feel like excuses should stop being made. And of course you are entitled to YOUR OPINION, as are others, it is more than fine with me. In no way was I enforcing my opinion on others. Am I putting a gun to their heads and forcing them to think what I think? I don't think so. I was just saying what I think. So don't take what I say like an arbitrary action from my part trying to force my thoughts on people.

Cheers ?

[Marriot Ram99]

I'm not sure Lawrence is the player you want to turn things when chips are down,  he only plays well when the team plays well. Waghorn I'm not sure if he has the quality to make a difference even though he is a fighter,  Bielik will be key though as it is our midfield where we are lacking urgency and solidity big time and he has height to help from set pieces. Ibe may make a big difference but in 5 weeks time Cocu may be out of a job, no manager can last a start to the season without results if it continues for another 2-4 games. Theres a limit to what's acceptable. 

[Gone]

Give hIm till Christmas if players are hired and returned from injury and we are still as boring and not winning games then cheerio. If not and all is good and we’re are winning games, then all’s good for PC.