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Luton's second goal


Uptherams
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The league is scrappy. Lot's of goals come from punted long balls and inside the box. It's about the fight and willingness of players over their ability. You will rarely find a player 30 yards outside of your box, looking to take on the CB and or shoot and when they do it's easily blocked, shocking, comfortable save for the keeper.

I feel as though the manager still doesn't get this. He's set us up to prevent this from happening, when it just doesn't happen in this league. He's setting our defender's up to deal with the kind of world class players he faced as a player. 

Defensively we need to deal with the second ball. If it is played long, or crossed, we are completely unorganized when it comes to winning the second ball. 

Crosses should be prevented at almost all cost. Doesn't matter if the ball leads to a man 25 yards in front of goal. Priority is to stop the cross. Again, the kind of players in this league are not who the manager played against or alongside. They will almost never smash one into the top corner. 

He also needs to fix the positioning of players when they are in the box ready to defend. The second goal yesterday Luton had two men in the box, we had like 7. It's all well and good blaming the one player, but the whole lot of them were at fault, including the keeper. 

Just watching the second goal back now. Build up long ball, Clarke wins the header, we don't win the second ball. Makes it way across the pitch, they shoot and it's blocked. We don't win the second ball. The ball is crossed. We have 4 players between the man crossing the ball and the only player in the middle challenging. Why? At most it should be a player trying to block Cross, player 1/3 into the goal covering the front post and middle and player in the middle. The ball makes its way to the back post. The deepest player we have is in the middle of the goal. 

 

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First goal, cross not blocked. Positioning of CB's is awful. Both CB's starting position should be goal side. In front of their men. They don't even have to win the header. If you are goal side, you dig your heels into the ground and bounce the player off your chest and the keeper claims the ball with no pressure. Most refs would even give you the foul if you get knocked on your ass.

If that cross comes in farther away from the goal, it's the same approach. Keeper is now on his line ready for a header. You're goal side of your man so he's not getting past you on to a ball. He is stationary. Because you are in his way. If he wins the header, so what. He's meeting the ball with no momentum. You either challenge for the header to win it in this case or just as the player is about to leap or is under the ball you lean into them. 

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6 minutes ago, Uptherams said:

First goal, cross not blocked. Positioning of CB's is awful. Both CB's starting position should be goal side. In front of their men. They don't even have to win the header. If you are goal side, you dig your heels into the ground and bounce the player off your chest and the keeper claims the ball with no pressure. Most refs would even give you the foul if you get knocked on your ass.

If that cross comes in farther away from the goal, it's the same approach. Keeper is now on his line ready for a header. You're goal side of your man so he's not getting past you on to a ball. He is stationary. Because you are in his way. If he wins the header, so what. He's meeting the ball with no momentum. You either challenge for the header to win it in this case or just as the player is about to leap or is under the ball you lean into them. 

First goal reminded of the same mistake Roos has been slaughtered for over the past couple of years. Marshall’s trying to catch it at chest height and somebody nips in

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11 minutes ago, angieram said:

A thread for every goal now? 

Leeds scored a very similar goal against Fulham  yesterday, I noticed. Crap marking. It happens. Otherwise we'd only ever have wonder goals. 

 

Problem is 80% of the goals we concede are woeful, was the same at the end of last season. Against Reading we concede two horrible goals and yesterday again, a keeper mistake and  a completely unmarked header. I can't see us achieving anything with the current defence.

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20 minutes ago, Uptherams said:

The league is scrappy. Lot's of goals come from punted long balls and inside the box. It's about the fight and willingness of players over their ability. You will rarely find a player 30 yards outside of your box, looking to take on the CB and or shoot and when they do it's easily blocked, shocking, comfortable save for the keeper.

I feel as though the manager still doesn't get this. He's set us up to prevent this from happening, when it just doesn't happen in this league. He's setting our defender's up to deal with the kind of world class players he faced as a player. 

Defensively we need to deal with the second ball. If it is played long, or crossed, we are completely unorganized when it comes to winning the second ball. 

Crosses should be prevented at almost all cost. Doesn't matter if the ball leads to a man 25 yards in front of goal. Priority is to stop the cross. Again, the kind of players in this league are not who the manager played against or alongside. They will almost never smash one into the top corner. 

He also needs to fix the positioning of players when they are in the box ready to defend. The second goal yesterday Luton had two men in the box, we had like 7. It's all well and good blaming the one player, but the whole lot of them were at fault, including the keeper. 

Just watching the second goal back now. Build up long ball, Clarke wins the header, we don't win the second ball. Makes it way across the pitch, they shoot and it's blocked. We don't win the second ball. The ball is crossed. We have 4 players between the man crossing the ball and the only player in the middle challenging. Why? At most it should be a player trying to block Cross, player 1/3 into the goal covering the front post and middle and player in the middle. The ball makes its way to the back post. The deepest player we have is in the middle of the goal. 

 

At the time I thought he was going to restart with a drop ball not that he had given a foul.  The commentary team alluded to that also something along the lines of now the ref has got to decide how to restart.  Intelligently taken free kick put us on the back foot and we never escaped the inevitable

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49 minutes ago, Uptherams said:

The league is scrappy. Lot's of goals come from punted long balls and inside the box. It's about the fight and willingness of players over their ability. You will rarely find a player 30 yards outside of your box, looking to take on the CB and or shoot and when they do it's easily blocked, shocking, comfortable save for the keeper.

I feel as though the manager still doesn't get this. He's set us up to prevent this from happening, when it just doesn't happen in this league. He's setting our defender's up to deal with the kind of world class players he faced as a player. 

Defensively we need to deal with the second ball. If it is played long, or crossed, we are completely unorganized when it comes to winning the second ball. 

Crosses should be prevented at almost all cost. Doesn't matter if the ball leads to a man 25 yards in front of goal. Priority is to stop the cross. Again, the kind of players in this league are not who the manager played against or alongside. They will almost never smash one into the top corner. 

He also needs to fix the positioning of players when they are in the box ready to defend. The second goal yesterday Luton had two men in the box, we had like 7. It's all well and good blaming the one player, but the whole lot of them were at fault, including the keeper. 

Just watching the second goal back now. Build up long ball, Clarke wins the header, we don't win the second ball. Makes it way across the pitch, they shoot and it's blocked. We don't win the second ball. The ball is crossed. We have 4 players between the man crossing the ball and the only player in the middle challenging. Why? At most it should be a player trying to block Cross, player 1/3 into the goal covering the front post and middle and player in the middle. The ball makes its way to the back post. The deepest player we have is in the middle of the goal. 

 

Exhibit A:

Derby 1 Preston 1, 5 days ago.

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8 minutes ago, richinspain said:

Exhibit A:

Derby 1 Preston 1, 5 days ago.

And when we're the last 5 goals we conceded like that scored? It's the same principle as with a cross, try and block it. But a shot like that is so rare, we shouldn't worry about our defenders encouraging players to come inside versus crossing the ball. 

 

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There was a time teams rarely worried about shots from outside the box. The stance was let the keeper deal with it. Liverpool were key exponents  of that philosophy. Long shot goals were rare, that's probably why we remember them so fondly. These days the beach balls we use are so unpredictable in flight its often worth a try.

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I think you’re over complicating it to be honest. It all comes down to very basic defending. We don’t close wingers down quickly enough to stop the cross, and we’re extremely disorganised when the ball comes in, often leaving players with free headers. It really shouldn’t be something that defenders of the quality we have struggle with, but for whatever reason, time and time again we make these basic errors and concede a frankly ridiculous amount of goals from balls into our box. It’s really beyond a joke now.

Questions have to be asked of the coaching team as to why this still hasn’t been improved, given it’s been an issue pretty much since day 1 of Cocu’s reign. There’s no excuse of having poor personnel, most championship teams would be delighted to have our backline. This lack of organisation is not acceptable, doesn’t matter what your forwards do, you won’t win football matches if you concede from every cross hit towards your box.

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Not big on calling out individuals, but ultimately Clarke was largely at fault here once the cross comes in.

Fozzy had tracked the player with the ball from his LB position to a central position before the ball gets crossed. Fozzy holds the position correctly as to switch would cause confusion as a cross comes in.

Clarke should see this and cover that back post area instead he inexplicably goes and stands next to Fozzy leaving a huge gap behind him and we know the rest.

This stuff is utter basics even at parks level and I don’t any amount of coaching can rectify that moment of madness!

 

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1 hour ago, Spanish said:

At the time I thought he was going to restart with a drop ball not that he had given a foul.  The commentary team alluded to that also something along the lines of now the ref has got to decide how to restart.

I was thinking this at the time, but no one seemed to make a fuss so I thought I must have misremebered how play stopped.

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38 minutes ago, Ramarena said:

Not big on calling out individuals, but ultimately Clarke was largely at fault here once the cross comes in.

Fozzy had tracked the player with the ball from his LB position to a central position before the ball gets crossed. Fozzy holds the position correctly as to switch would cause confusion as a cross comes in.

Clarke should see this and cover that back post area instead he inexplicably goes and stands next to Fozzy leaving a huge gap behind him and we know the rest.

This stuff is utter basics even at parks level and I don’t any amount of coaching can rectify that moment of madness!

 

Dawes tells us each match we use a zonal marking defensive system.Should players track their man?The players don’t seem to know what to do.Thats Cocu and his staffs fault.

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