Brammie Steve Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 26 minutes ago, TexasRam said: I just hope the football gets a little more exciting, because for the past season and so far this season it’s been anything but that. Actually does anyone like our style of play? serious question Definitely.......but I'm talking under 23s! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atherstoneram Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 16 hours ago, Ramfan1958 said: Let's see your posts season end Derby fans have to stop dreaming did you watch us against Barrow !!!!. I told you 12 months ago PSV fans say it's the most boring team ever tactics negative yes they won the league but absolutely boring . Cocu Out If you don't like the "boring tactics" you are very welcome to start supporting another team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazloW Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 Can't say Cocu's style of football has excited me in the main. Good results can mitigate any concerns (at least in the short term), but poor results obviously highlight any inadequacies in style that might exist. However, even when we were winning under Rowett, I spoke out about the style and how much I disliked it. I'd be saying the same about Cocu now except for the fact that I'm not absolutely convinced we are seeing Cocu's preferred style. For various reasons, most of which were outside Cocu's control, last season was weird; short pre-season, unsatisfactory 'windows', embargoes, disciplinary charges against the club, injuries, off the field incidents, the COVID break etc etc. All of these factors have surely hampered his ability to mold the side as he wants. This season isn't likely to be any different... another short and unsatisfactory pre-season period, players we wanted to keep deciding to leave, having to sell to buy (presumably for FFP purposes, not Mel's financial situation), injuries to key players, slow at getting new players in, etc etc are still likely to be impeding our ability to put the best team we can out there (or the team that Cocu really wants to put out there). For these reasons, I'm giving Cocu the benefit of the doubt, both in terms of style and results. Having said that, even though I couldn't stand Rowett-ball, I wouldn't have sacked him (though I certainly wasn't heartbroken when he left from a football perspective). At the time, I think we needed some stability. I still think we need stability. The main reason I was upset when Lampard left was not because I thought he was a fabulous manager who we couldn't afford to lose. Rather, it was because it was taking us back to square one yet again. We're going through a rough patch. I don't think this will be a blip. I'm expecting a long, hard and mostly disappointing season. I expect quite a lot of frustrating afternoons and evenings. Clearly, I hope that I'm wrong on that score and, like many teams who have lost two games in a row before us, we click in the next few weeks and become world-beaters. Whether we do or not, however, what I'm hoping for with Cocu is that we'll see a long term project, with a team and squad that evolves over time. It may take some time for the quality to shine through. That's OK. I've supported this team for over 30 years, most of which has been spent in this division. Its no great hardship. It will take some patience (a word often used in this thread). What it also needs is some maturity from the fans. There will be poor performances. There will be defeats. We can have grown-up conversations where poor performances are discussed. Its OK to say that we played poorly without being accused of being a wrist slasher. Personally, I just don't think that every poor performance or result needs to be accompanied by calls for the manager to be sacked. I think it just gets a bit silly. Its also a bit like 'crying wolf', as if somebody says '[insert name here]-out' after every poor match, then it somewhat dilutes any arguments they might make when there is a strong case for a sacking. To be honest, from what I've read on here, its does seem to be a minority who want a(nother) change. Inevitably, there will be a time for a new manager. There always is. I don't believe that time is now and, I hope, that it will not be for some time to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 17 hours ago, Andicis said: Our goal today came from Max Bird threading a ball through to Jozwiak. Not only is there often no options ahead of Max, he's also watched very closely as the opponent knows what he can do on the ball. He's also a young player. They're notoriously inconsistent. He's not gone backwards, he had a purple patch of form. Just out of interest though I very strongly disagree with you on some Martin areas there’s also subjects where in my humble opinion you talk a lot of sense and your appraisal of players and manager around the Luton game spot on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 59 minutes ago, atherstoneram said: If you don't like the "boring tactics" you are very welcome to start supporting another team Or conversely the fan base will start to drift away if they aren't enjoying the fare that is served up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 9 minutes ago, Archied said: Just out of interest though I very strongly disagree with you on some Martin areas there’s also subjects where in my humble opinion you talk a lot of sense and your appraisal of players and manager around the Luton game spot on I try be balanced on a whole where possible, clearly I'm biased on some players and can be more objective on others. I've tended to be more negative on Cocu, but I don't want to see him sacked. I also think a lot of people are jumping on the Luton game without watching, or in a very blinkered sense, because I thought the second half was the best I've seen Derby play this season, and regardless of result I'd like to watch more of that football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 From 18/19 we have lost our entire midfield, starting centre-halves and top-scoring winger. We replaced two midfielders with kids and haven’t replaced Wilson. From last season we have lost our two top assisters (of them also being our joint top scorer). Our other joint top scorer and third top scorer are injured. We have only just replaced Keogh and his replacement needs to get used to English football. The player we have signed to replace Wilson has an assist after one game. Get a grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premier ram Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 23 hours ago, Ramfan1958 said: Look take the blinkers off Cocu is rubbish its the most boring Derby team for many a year . Who will bet me Rowetts team against Cocu team ? The other night against Preston 50 mins + first shot on goal get real everyone this team is absolutely diar stop dreaming . What would McLarens team in 2014 do to this team ? they would murder them . COCU OUT. Correct me if im wrong but your beloved Mclaren and Rowett never got us promoted either, and both of them oversaw some ropey performances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Premier ram said: Correct me if im wrong but your beloved Mclaren and Rowett never got us promoted either, and both of them oversaw some ropey performances It’s a weird one, McClaren. I think he would do better with this squad than Cocu. But I don’t think he would have done anywhere near as well as Cocu has just to get us to this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shipley Ram Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 8 minutes ago, cannable said: It’s a weird one, McClaren. I think he would do better with this squad that Cocu. But I don’t think he would have done anywhere near as well as Cocu has just to get us to this point. McClaren is an absolute top notch coach but a poor manager. He was lucky to inherit the team Clough built, but he did wonderful things with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbles Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 Why should we change the style of football is the question I keep asking. People call it negative, boring etc. It’s not, it’s more down to the fact certain players can’t do it. Once we’ve got the correct players in we’ll see completely different style of football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shipley Ram Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 The problem is we all look at the game and think it's all down to our team. These days every game can be watched and analysed and people have worked us out. Cocu has us playing nice football, but we have been rumbled and everyone we play uses the effective stop Derby game plan. I'm sure if we play someone who doesn't press us and doesn't work at holding a good shape we will beat them and look a good attacking side. In the face of an effective opposition we look toothless, can Cocu change things? I hope so. We are not as far away as people think from being very good, but we might never be able to take that step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 6 minutes ago, Bubbles said: Why should we change the style of football is the question I keep asking. People call it negative, boring etc. It’s not, it’s more down to the fact certain players can’t do it. Once we’ve got the correct players in we’ll see completely different style of football. You're going off faith though. I can see why people find the style of play boring. We tend to prefer the safe 80% play, rather than the risky 50/50. There is some merit to it, it's probably sensible. But in football, I like to watch teams that take a risk in possession. Sinful I know, but at the minute Leeds are my favourite team to watch. They're fast and take risks in possession. I can see why people wouldn't find Derby interesting to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 12 minutes ago, Bubbles said: Why should we change the style of football is the question I keep asking. People call it negative, boring etc. It’s not, it’s more down to the fact certain players can’t do it. Once we’ve got the correct players in we’ll see completely different style of football. In order to beat teams and get out of this division playing possession based football at a slow tempo we need exceptional players who can read a move before the balls played, have the passing accuracy of a laser and the ability to retain the ball for long periods from defence to attack. We don't have 250 million pounds. We could try doing the above at a fast pace but we don't have 400 million . Cocu isn't a bad manager and seems a nice fella and you could say he's been dealt a bad hand as the cupboard is bare, but he really is struggling to get to grips with the intensity of this league. There's no time to catch breath, every teams full of midfield bullies who love a bit of caught in possession 20 year old stuck to there studs and we need points . So yes, with injuries and lack of options we need to change something as the correct players for this system are very expensive and we could be in bother after the next few games. If we have to loan an 8ft giant for a few months and constantly hammer it to his head just to get some traction till we can get or general play sorted it's a necessary evil I'm afraid. I'd rather not but the twinkle toed strikers cost money and we will not be attractive to prem clubs loaning us there best young forwards at the minute as we don't play at the right tempo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 15 hours ago, NottsRammy said: Love this . I havent seen much of bird so i dont know but if cocu loves that i can see him signing Will hughes in a heartbeat , the biggest sideways passer and over rated that Derby has ever had . Also i will just put this out there . You cant deny stats we have signed 50% of wigans relegation defence ???? ( will just put that out there ) Go home. You're drunk. 11 hours ago, sage said: 'My partner had a headache last night...I'm joining tinder' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyhill60 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 11 hours ago, atherstoneram said: If you don't like the "boring tactics" you are very welcome to start supporting another team Why should we? In 60 years I have seen all sorts of Derby managers and I know the style of football I like. There have been 40 managers in that time, including purveyors of absolute garbage to masters of the art. After more than a season's evidence I have a feeling about where Cocu lies on that spectrum. The best I can say is that he has a lot to prove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 11 hours ago, atherstoneram said: If you don't like the "boring tactics" you are very welcome to start supporting another team Every single time something like this is posted I lose brain cells, please I don't have any more to lose. Any fan can complain about the tactics, telling them to support another team is sincerely ludicrous and bigoted. Trying to take a moral high ground and sneering at fans with concerns doesn't make you a better Derby fan, it just looks silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeedsCityRam Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 6 hours ago, sunnyhill60 said: Why should we? In 60 years I have seen all sorts of Derby managers and I know the style of football I like. There have been 40 managers in that time, including purveyors of absolute garbage to masters of the art. After more than a season's evidence I have a feeling about where Cocu lies on that spectrum. The best I can say is that he has a lot to prove. Interested to know whether you may have changed your mind about a couple of managers as their reigns have progressed. What were your thoughts on Clough in September 1968 and Cox in September 1985? Both had been with us a full season & had finished lower than the season before they were appointed. Did the style of either team compensate for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbles Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 10 hours ago, Andicis said: You're going off faith though. I can see why people find the style of play boring. We tend to prefer the safe 80% play, rather than the risky 50/50. There is some merit to it, it's probably sensible. But in football, I like to watch teams that take a risk in possession. Sinful I know, but at the minute Leeds are my favourite team to watch. They're fast and take risks in possession. I can see why people wouldn't find Derby interesting to watch. I see where you're coming from. I've seen from Cocu's post match comments on several games he wants players to take a risk, however lack the confidence to do so... Whether that is down to Cocu or not, it's clear he wants us to take more chances etc. I agree with the Leeds part, they are a fun team to watch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addingham Ram Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 Please can we all refrain from complementing Leeds. I live and work amongst them and they are just lapping up all of the praise being thrown their way for the way they are playing at the moment. If any of their posters were to find out that we secretly admired them, it would get unbearable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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