Florian Jozefzoon - Joined Rotherham on loan

[Olton Ram]

20 minutes ago, neil62uk said:

Couldn't agree more with your statement in every aspect  ,  But if no team comes in for Zoon ....then surely he,ll just see his contract out ...would be better if he did move on a.s.a.p  not just for the money we,LL get for him  but also for him to get the chance to play regular football 

You're right, we can't force him to leave. I suspect that we may have to come to some type of financial agreement with him to ease him out the door, either permanently or on loan. He's not a terrible player. I'm surprised that another Championship club haven't taken a chance on him, or he may go back to Holland.

[Tyler Durden]

10 hours ago, Olton Ram said:

You're right, we can't force him to leave. I suspect that we may have to come to some type of financial agreement with him to ease him out the door, either permanently or on loan. He's not a terrible player. I'm surprised that another Championship club haven't taken a chance on him, or he may go back to Holland.

What sort of financial arrangement are you alluding to with Zoon? We have to honour his contract so are you therefore saying that we are giving him a sweetener over and above his current contract to hasten his exit? Heads we lose tails we lose. Don't understand what you are saying. Am damn sure we can't afford to be paying players who have got no future at the club extra money to leave.

[Wolfie20]

17 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

What sort of financial arrangement are you alluding to with Zoon? We have to honour his contract so are you therefore saying that we are giving him a sweetener over and above his current contract to hasten his exit? Heads we lose tails we lose. Don't understand what you are saying. Am damn sure we can't afford to be paying players who have got no future at the club extra money to leave.

It's not unusual for clubs to come to an agreement with players who no longer feature in the first team squad e.g. the player has 12 months left on a contract at £10k pw. You offer him say £200k to terminate his contract - the player has money upfront and is immediately free to negotiate terms with another club. The benefit to his current club is a saving of £300k on a player they have no intention of playing

[Olton Ram]

13 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

What sort of financial arrangement are you alluding to with Zoon? We have to honour his contract so are you therefore saying that we are giving him a sweetener over and above his current contract to hasten his exit? Heads we lose tails we lose. Don't understand what you are saying. Am damn sure we can't afford to be paying players who have got no future at the club extra money to leave.

No, not above is current salary, but maybe something along the lines of paying 80% of his remaining salary if he finds a new club and agrees to leave immediately? So he gets a lump sum from us plus a new salary elsewhere and we save 20% over the remainder of his contract. Something for everyone. Not ideal, but he could just stay and get 100% of his salary for the rest of his time here instead.

(I'm not in anyway ITK though)

[Tyler Durden]

2 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said:

It's not unusual for clubs to come to an agreement with players who no longer feature in the first team squad e.g. the player has 12 months left on a contract at £10k pw. You offer him say £200k to terminate his contract - the player has money upfront and is immediately free to negotiate terms with another club. The benefit to his current club is a saving of £300k on a player they have no intention of playing

Yes can understand that I wouldn't call that a financial arrangement though as the player could collect double that by sitting out their current deal. I thought the OP was alluding to some form of accelerated pay off which we definitely can't afford to exit players from the club.

I guess it all comes down to how well advised the player is by their agent.

[RadioactiveWaste]

Any arrangement that's less than paying his full contract value is a win at this point.

No one is gonna match his wages or pay a fee. We're not even pretending he's of value to us.

Took up the mantle of Nick Blackman in terms of rubbish transfer.

 

[dantheram]

On 18/09/2020 at 11:11, EulogyForEvolution said:

I never really understood why he didn't get much of a chance. Especially as we don't have any wingers in the squad. Very strange.

He didn't really appear much under either manager. Maybe he's just a bad trainer. He wasn't great when he appeared for us, but I never thought he was bad enough that he shouldn't even make the bench ?‍♂️

The bloke is crap. 

[Van der MoodHoover]

19 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Any arrangement that's less than paying his full contract value is a win at this point.

No one is gonna match his wages or pay a fee. We're not even pretending he's of value to us.

Took up the mantle of Nick Blackman in terms of rubbish transfer.

 

Summer 2018 under Fwank seems to be our last fairly rubbish transfer window. 

Only Waggy has featured consistently out of Frank's buys ( zoon, malone, marriott) and he was arguably overpriced coming as he was after 1 very decent season at Ipswich - another transfer coup.

For all the profile and celebrity cult stuff, Frank really left us in a big pile....

[RadioactiveWaste]

55 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Summer 2018 under Fwank seems to be our last fairly rubbish transfer window. 

Only Waggy has featured consistently out of Frank's buys ( zoon, malone, marriott) and he was arguably overpriced coming as he was after 1 very decent season at Ipswich - another transfer coup.

For all the profile and celebrity cult stuff, Frank really left us in a big pile....

Duane and Evans were both cheap signings who've been more use than zoon.

 

[S8TY]

1 hour ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Summer 2018 under Fwank seems to be our last fairly rubbish transfer window. 

Only Waggy has featured consistently out of Frank's buys ( zoon, malone, marriott) and he was arguably overpriced coming as he was after 1 very decent season at Ipswich - another transfer coup.

For all the profile and celebrity cult stuff, Frank really left us in a big pile....

I do agree regarding Frank and think he was overrated but he was learning...he did though bring in 3 quality loans which I don't think many others could've done

[Olton Ram]

18 minutes ago, S8TY said:

I do agree regarding Frank and think he was overrated but he was learning...he did though bring in 3 quality loans which I don't think many others could've done

This is true. No way Mount would have come without Lampard (I think he said in an early interview that it was a big factor), and I doubt Wilson would have been here either. Lampard didn't really build for the future in his permanent signings either, but he did promote Bogle to the first team and gave the likes of Knight a chance. All in all a bit of a mixed bag, and he left Cocu with a lot of work to do.

[Van der MoodHoover]

1 hour ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Duane and Evans were both cheap signings who've been more use than zoon.

 

I had admittedly overlooked those, whi I see as useful squad members rather than 1st choice signings who were going to propel us forwards. 

And whilst the loans were fun, I was left with the impression that they were made more to showcase frank than help the club. How much was spaffed on their fees....neither Chelsea nor Liverpool are known for philanthropy....

[Gerry Daly]

None of that would have mattered if we had ended up getting promoted. That was the idea of the quality loans and it nearly worked

[roboto]

You can also argue that one season of Lampard raised the clubs profile considerably. Without him I doubt we'd have Cocu or Rooney at the moment.

[Ambitious]

Jozefzoon had the chance to go to Leeds under Bielsa, who was a huge fan of him. Instead, he ended up here and now he can't get a squad number. All of this whilst we're consistently told that he's one of the most gitfted footballers at the club. I always said that if you sign technically gifted players then you always have a chance to coach them up. Jozefzoon seems dispel that slightly, although it wouldn't be surprising to see him move on and perform well at this level. He's certainly done it before. 

[Van der MoodHoover]

1 minute ago, Ambitious said:

Jozefzoon had the chance to go to Leeds under Bielsa, who was a huge fan of him. Instead, he ended up here and now he can't get a squad number. All of this whilst we're consistently told that he's one of the most gitfted footballers at the club. I always said that if you sign technically gifted players then you always have a chance to coach them up. Jozefzoon seems dispel that slightly, although it wouldn't be surprising to see him move on and perform well at this level. He's certainly done it before. 

From what I've read on here and gratuitously made up, I thought that Zoons main issue was effort. I struggle to reconcile a languid  technical player with Bielsas "run yerself into the ground, triple training sessions" style.....

[Ambitious]

11 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

From what I've read on here and gratuitously made up, I thought that Zoons main issue was effort. I struggle to reconcile a languid  technical player with Bielsas "run yerself into the ground, triple training sessions" style.....

We've never heard that Jozefzoon doesn't put in any effort though, at any point. It's just one of those things that fans tend to speak as a half truth and it grows legs as it gets more mentions. It's an easy mental leap to make and it may well be true. 

The only player where a manager has even remotely let slip that there needs to be more done behind the scenes in the past couple of years has been Marriott. 

If Zoon had gone to Leeds, he would've been involved in the triple training sessions and dare I say been a much better physical athlete than he has been here. We simply don't have that level of fitness in the squad, nor do I think its something that we're trying to achieve. I personally would like to see it, but Cocu obviously doesn't put such an emphasis on fitness levels. I don't know what the distance covered and 'sprints' data would tell you but I'd bet a lot of money that we're towards the bottom end of the table over the past two seasons. 

[May Contain Nuts]

Nothing can be said about his efforts in training (we know nothing), but there definitely was a noticeable lack of effort in a couple of home games coming on as a sub.

I can't remember the games or which manager they were under, but he came on and just showed no desire to get himself involved, he hid from the ball. The ball would break loose in the area & fall quite nicely for him but he'd be stood on his heels ball-watching.

He could have had a couple of goals, boosted his confidence and taken the opportunity to force himself into the team, but, nothing...

[BondJovi]

32 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

We've never heard that Jozefzoon doesn't put in any effort though, at any point. It's just one of those things that fans tend to speak as a half truth and it grows legs as it gets more mentions. It's an easy mental leap to make and it may well be true. 

The only player where a manager has even remotely let slip that there needs to be more done behind the scenes in the past couple of years has been Marriott. 

If Zoon had gone to Leeds, he would've been involved in the triple training sessions and dare I say been a much better physical athlete than he has been here. We simply don't have that level of fitness in the squad, nor do I think its something that we're trying to achieve. I personally would like to see it, but Cocu obviously doesn't put such an emphasis on fitness levels. I don't know what the distance covered and 'sprints' data would tell you but I'd bet a lot of money that we're towards the bottom end of the table over the past two seasons. 

It wasn't last season but Cocu has said that fitness levels are something that has to be improved this season. 

[Comrade 86]

On 18/09/2020 at 15:53, Tyler Durden said:

How long is left on his current contract? As it's disingenuous Cocu saying he needs to find another club as potentially he will just do an Anya. 

Couldn't be less 'disingenuous' IMO. Told he has no future at Derby and given no squad number. That's about as unequivocal as it gets. What else would you have him do as it seems like a needless dig at the gaffer to me.