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Patience


TuffLuff
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Yeah it feels an overly obvious thing to say but think it’s worth a reminder. Especially given some of the comments aimed at Te Wierik last night. Fans are quick to forget that Clarke needed time last season and Tomori the season before. It was October/November time when they started to look anything like the players we seem to remember them as. Defending is about partnerships and working together, this is something you can only really work on in actual games. Fans either forget that, or actually have no idea what defending is actually about. 
 

My overall feeling on the side is that it’s going to take 5-6 games for us to really gel but if we ride it then we can reap the rewards. Attacking players need to return to take the pressure off Sibley and then hopefully we might see signs that Bielik is returning which will be a big boost.

Key word is patience, get out of the mindset that ‘x isn’t good enough’ or that Cocu needs to be looking over his shoulder if the football doesn’t improve. He isn’t going anywhere and neither if the football. They need to grow the confidence to push forward whilst playing it.

 

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6 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

Yeah it feels an overly obvious thing to say but think it’s worth a reminder. Especially given some of the comments aimed at Te Wierik last night. Fans are quick to forget that Clarke needed time last season and Tomori the season before. It was October/November time when they started to look anything like the players we seem to remember them as. Defending is about partnerships and working together, this is something you can only really work on in actual games. Fans either forget that, or actually have no idea what defending is actually about. 
 

My overall feeling on the side is that it’s going to take 5-6 games for us to really gel but if we ride it then we can reap the rewards. Attacking players need to return to take the pressure off Sibley and then hopefully we might see signs that Bielik is returning which will be a big boost.

Key word is patience, get out of the mindset that ‘x isn’t good enough’ or that Cocu needs to be looking over his shoulder if the football doesn’t improve. He isn’t going anywhere and neither if the football. They need to grow the confidence to push forward whilst playing it.

 

You don't get it do you? 

This forum is Salem and we want our witches drowned, burned then dissected!

😋

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8 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

My biggest concern is that no amount of time will cure the issue of having two central defenders in partnership whom are both totally one paced. 

Defending isn’t about pace, if it becomes about pace then the defender is doing something wrong. Tomori looked good because of the recovering and not because he was in control. Defending is about positioning and knowing where the attacker and where your partner are. If you know those two things you should never be caught in a one on one chase.

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3 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

Defending isn’t about pace, if it becomes about pace then the defender is doing something wrong. Tomori looked good because of the recovering and not because he was in control. Defending is about positioning and knowing where the attacker and where your partner are. If you know those two things you should never be caught in a one on one chase.

I do slightly disagree as yes if you're having to use you pace all the time to recover then you're not reading the game properly. But in a straight line sprint against a pacey centre forward then that's going to become an issue very quickly.

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27 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

Yeah it feels an overly obvious thing to say but think it’s worth a reminder. Especially given some of the comments aimed at Te Wierik last night. Fans are quick to forget that Clarke needed time last season and Tomori the season before. It was October/November time when they started to look anything like the players we seem to remember them as. Defending is about partnerships and working together, this is something you can only really work on in actual games. Fans either forget that, or actually have no idea what defending is actually about. 
 

My overall feeling on the side is that it’s going to take 5-6 games for us to really gel but if we ride it then we can reap the rewards. Attacking players need to return to take the pressure off Sibley and then hopefully we might see signs that Bielik is returning which will be a big boost.

Key word is patience, get out of the mindset that ‘x isn’t good enough’ or that Cocu needs to be looking over his shoulder if the football doesn’t improve. He isn’t going anywhere and neither if the football. They need to grow the confidence to push forward whilst playing it.

 

I agree although, it might take 5-6 games before Cocu even has his potential first team squad back from injury so, maybe we're looking slightly longer into the season (but hopefully not too long). 

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1 hour ago, TuffLuff said:

Defending isn’t about pace, if it becomes about pace then the defender is doing something wrong. Tomori looked good because of the recovering and not because he was in control. Defending is about positioning and knowing where the attacker and where your partner are. If you know those two things you should never be caught in a one on one chase.

Last time we got promoted we had Moore and Leacock as our pairing, backup being Addison and Jonno. None were blessed with any pace. With time still think Clarke and Te Wierik could be the right duo. 

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I don't really think the forum is that bad.

It was worse when toddy, Ninos etc were moaning about drawing occasionally. Or threads like "are we good enough for the PL" because we were fighting for promotion. 

There are a few posters that think we're the worst thing ever but then there's posters that would take positives from getting smashed 8-0. 

We're not a cult. It's a large group of people. Not everyone is going to be happy when we are winning the Champions League so when we lose as much as we win and it's not entertaining people are going to criticise. How can you expect them not to?

Doesn't mean anyone driving Cocu out of town. 

I may have missed it but I've not seen anybody call for anything drastic at all. Considering Cocu has 1.4 points pg  and we have scored 1.3 goals i think on the whole our support has been positive. 

Edited by Alpha
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Just now, Alpha said:

I don't really think the forum is that bad.

It was worse when toddy, Ninos etc were moaning about drawing occasionally. Or threads like "are we good enough for the PL" because we were fighting for promotion. 

There are a few posters that think we're the worst thing ever but then there's posters that would take positives from getting smashed 8-0. 

We're not a cult. It's a large group of people. Not everyone is going to be happy when we are winning the Champions League. We lose as much as we win and it's not entertaining. People are going to criticise. How can you expect them not to?

Doesn't mean anyone driving Cocu out of town. 

I may have missed it but I've not seen anybody call for anything drastic at all. Considering Cocu has 1.4 points pg  and we have scored 1.3 goals i think on the whole our support has been positive. 

"Are we good enough for the PL" was by far my favorite annual topic when we were top 6 every year.

So absurd. I hope we do well this year so we can see it again. 

 

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28 minutes ago, SaintRam said:

"Are we good enough for the PL" was by far my favorite annual topic when we were top 6 every year.

So absurd. I hope we do well this year so we can see it again. 

 

Was really frustrating! Especially when Palace had just scraped 6th and then gone on to do well. 

How we were worried that Martin would be too slow and we make too many defensive errors. Are Hughes and Hendrick even good enough? 

All that worrying for nowt! 

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3 hours ago, TuffLuff said:

Yeah it feels an overly obvious thing to say but think it’s worth a reminder. Especially given some of the comments aimed at Te Wierik last night. Fans are quick to forget that Clarke needed time last season and Tomori the season before. It was October/November time when they started to look anything like the players we seem to remember them as. Defending is about partnerships and working together, this is something you can only really work on in actual games. Fans either forget that, or actually have no idea what defending is actually about. 
 

My overall feeling on the side is that it’s going to take 5-6 games for us to really gel but if we ride it then we can reap the rewards. Attacking players need to return to take the pressure off Sibley and then hopefully we might see signs that Bielik is returning which will be a big boost.

Key word is patience, get out of the mindset that ‘x isn’t good enough’ or that Cocu needs to be looking over his shoulder if the football doesn’t improve. He isn’t going anywhere and neither if the football. They need to grow the confidence to push forward whilst playing it.

 

Great post mate , spot on

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1 hour ago, Alpha said:

I don't really think the forum is that bad.

It was worse when toddy, Ninos etc were moaning about drawing occasionally. Or threads like "are we good enough for the PL" because we were fighting for promotion. 

There are a few posters that think we're the worst thing ever but then there's posters that would take positives from getting smashed 8-0. 

We're not a cult. It's a large group of people. Not everyone is going to be happy when we are winning the Champions League so when we lose as much as we win and it's not entertaining people are going to criticise. How can you expect them not to?

Doesn't mean anyone driving Cocu out of town. 

I may have missed it but I've not seen anybody call for anything drastic at all. Considering Cocu has 1.4 points pg  and we have scored 1.3 goals i think on the whole our support has been positive. 

All reasonable comment.

I suspect the OP's post (and I do agree with him on this) is pre-empting the inevitable hysteria if, for example, we lose the next 2 games. There are posters on here who made their mind up about Cocu last December, disappeared when we started picking up in the New Year & are now vocal again when the circumstances don't really dictate a mass panic. Comments such as 'the football is always bad', 'its only the Rooney bounce that improved us' or 'we should be doing better with the players we have' conveniently the reality, ignoring context or other factors.

Criticism absolutely valid - I wasn't happy about Cocu's full back choice on Saturday for instance (and got lambasted by one poster accusing me of being negative 😂) but its more the existential 'change everything now' that I have seen certain posters suggest in the past few days. 

Edited by LeedsCityRam
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21 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

All reasonable comment.

I suspect the OP's post (and I do agree with him on this) is pre-empting the inevitable hysteria if, for example, we lose the next 2 games. There are posters on here who made their mind up about Cocu last December, disappeared when we started picking up in the New Year & are now vocal again when the circumstances don't really dictate a mass panic. Comments such as 'the football is always bad', 'its only the Rooney bounce that improved us' or 'we should be doing better with the players we have' conveniently the reality, ignoring context or other factors.

Criticism absolutely valid - I wasn't happy about Cocu's full back choice on Saturday for instance (and got lambasted by one poster accusing me of being negative 😂) but its more the existential 'change everything now' that I have seen certain posters suggest in the past few days. 

I fully expect us to lose our next 2 games and we should be getting used to that now.  Trouble is that October looks very difficult at the best of times.  By November Wendies could have caught up with us then watch the melt down.  I fear for Cocu unless we can scrape something out of our next 2 (draw and a win).  It is early days but 24th October looks truly pivotal.  We need Tom to come back soon and be more influential than 1 in 5.  We need Waggy back soon and be more prolific than normal.  The new guys need to hit the ground running and we need to avoid injuries and suspensions.  Duck me I'm worried

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3 hours ago, Spanish said:

I fully expect us to lose our next 2 games and we should be getting used to that now.  Trouble is that October looks very difficult at the best of times.  By November Wendies could have caught up with us then watch the melt down.  I fear for Cocu unless we can scrape something out of our next 2 (draw and a win).  It is early days but 24th October looks truly pivotal.  We need Tom to come back soon and be more influential than 1 in 5.  We need Waggy back soon and be more prolific than normal.  The new guys need to hit the ground running and we need to avoid injuries and suspensions.  Duck me I'm worried

Can't work out if that was a parody of the stuff we've been reading elsewhere!

If its not, then fret not - we will click. October 'looks' tough but this is a very competitive league - we're just as capable of winning all 6. Not sure why Forest away is especially pivotal - just another game against a top 6 contender & the pressure will be less with no fans in the ground.

The addition of pace & presence in wide areas will dramatically change this team. Keep the faith 👍

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5 hours ago, Alpha said:

I don't really think the forum is that bad.

It was worse when toddy, Ninos etc were moaning about drawing occasionally. Or threads like "are we good enough for the PL" because we were fighting for promotion. 

There are a few posters that think we're the worst thing ever but then there's posters that would take positives from getting smashed 8-0. 

We're not a cult. It's a large group of people. Not everyone is going to be happy when we are winning the Champions League so when we lose as much as we win and it's not entertaining people are going to criticise. How can you expect them not to?

Doesn't mean anyone driving Cocu out of town. 

I may have missed it but I've not seen anybody call for anything drastic at all. Considering Cocu has 1.4 points pg  and we have scored 1.3 goals i think on the whole our support has been positive. 

100% agree with this. I find it quite odd how even the most even handed critiques give cause for some people to feel the need to defend the club, manager and players to the degree they do. I will never be an advocate of boo boys in the crowd as I think it’s daft but when people decided to criticise the performance of players and raise concerns on a platform that was essentially created for such things, surely that’s fair enough. Interestingly  Eric Steele who I think is a bit of a poster boy for the quietly considered gave out a stinging attack of the players and last nights performance, so if it’s good enough for him then I’m sure we should be able to accept the views of a few of the disgruntled on here. Alternatively if people are really that perturbed by other posters criticisms we could create a ‘Happy Clappers’ matchday thread and a ‘Wrist Slashers’ matchday thread. Better still we could just keep the one we’ve got, don’t fall into the trap of polarisation on virtually every single issue which the whole of society seems to be gripped by and try and accept other people’s opinions for what they are.

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I agree to an extent, but patience can’t last forever. You’ve got to give new signings a bit of time before writing them off, especially if they’ve moved country to a different style of football. We may take a few games to get together as a team as a result. That’s ok, so long as we start at least grinding out some wins. But on the manager, this is his second season in charge now. Not many managers get such a luxury these days. The pressure will be on, and he’s got to deliver. Now I hope we’re not expecting miracles, but we shouldn’t be performing like we have done the last few games. If that continues, questions will quite rightly be asked of the manager.

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