IslandExile Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 Just thought I would start another argument, err uhm, I mean "discussion". If we do manage to ever purchase Kamil Jozwiak and/or another winger, would anyone set us up in a 4-4-2 formation? Two wide men, two central midfielders, new big one and Marriott(?) up top. It seems out of fashion nowadays but I think there's a strong case for it.....although I am not sure which formation I prefer. Cocu says he favours 4-3-3 with two wingers (and presumably one big man at CF) but, with the players available, usually goes 4-2-3-1 The great man, BC, played 4-3-3 but with only one winger (Hinton) with Hector feeding off O'Hare. Mackay played 4-3-3 with Hector wide but mostly it was narrow interplay between Hector, Lee and Davies/George until Leighton James came in. 3-5-2/5-3-2 worked really well for Jim Smith. It's difficult to have this discussion without dragging the names of our current squad into it - and then, it will inevitably become yet another, yet another Chris Martin thread - but, in the first instance, let's try to keep it focused on which formation - generally - do you prefer. I know, I know horses for course, depends on the players etc....but just for a moment, consider the merits and flaws of each system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 What about 4-4-2 without wingers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandExile Posted September 14, 2020 Author Share Posted September 14, 2020 Just now, AndyinLiverpool said: What about 4-4-2 without wingers? I tried to include that as the 4-1-2-1-2 (diamond) option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenBr Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 Its more a case of what i dont like. Not a big fan of playing 2 defensive mids for example. Other than that all formations have there positives depending on the situation. I voted 4-3-3 purely because its the formation thats seen the most entertaining football (imo) in my lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 I think Bielik and Shinnie would be a ridiculously good midfield in a counter-attacking 4-4-2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 4-4-2 is a good system, it can be tweaked to fit the strengths of players, one central midfielder a little further back, one winger further forward, as a for instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandExile Posted September 14, 2020 Author Share Posted September 14, 2020 Perhaps, especially given what I said about the BC and Mackay formations, I should have broken 4-3-3 up into sub-categories of 0, 1 and 2 wingers. Ah well. It's something to talk about on a Monday, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 One of the main strengths of a 4-4-2 system is how well it uses the width of the pitch and that IMO is superior to narrow systems, which allow less options of play. A 4-4-2 requires fast fullbacks and wingers. No point playing it, if those sorts are not available within the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 The formation is largely irrelevant. What matters most is players getting into positions to pick up the balls. With Shinnie and Bird in the midfield area, both prefer to sit quite deep. When the opposition sit off, that leave those two, the CBs (and Fozzy/Wisdom) playing the safe passes because we have too few options in front. The AM, wingers and CF are easily marked out of the game as the opposition can pretty much double up on each of them. Put Rooney in there and he adds an extra dimension to our game as the fullbacks push up, the wingers have to option of receiving a ball over the top, and as opponents press Rooney, the AM and CF end up having more space as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taribo Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 This is exactly what I was thinking the other day, not wanting to overly dramatise the defeat on Saturday and the fact nearly all of our creative forwards are out but is it time to go back to basics? Marriott would benefit playing with a strike partner, we don’t have any wingers so a more traditional 4 midfielders would perhaps suit players like Sibley, Bird, Knight, Holmes, Shinnie etc without playing them out of position. I know Cocu doesn’t seem to like 442 but I really can’t see any creativity going forward at the minute (or really at all since Cocu joined?!) so there’s not much to lose - but then again I’m sure we could easily stifle the creativity out of any formation we play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnero Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 49 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: What about 4-4-2 without wingers? We'll never win the world cup playing like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 13 minutes ago, Taribo said: This is exactly what I was thinking the other day, not wanting to overly dramatise the defeat on Saturday and the fact nearly all of our creative forwards are out but is it time to go back to basics? Marriott would benefit playing with a strike partner, we don’t have any wingers so a more traditional 4 midfielders would perhaps suit players like Sibley, Bird, Knight, Holmes, Shinnie etc without playing them out of position. I know Cocu doesn’t seem to like 442 but I really can’t see any creativity going forward at the minute (or really at all since Cocu joined?!) so there’s not much to lose - but then again I’m sure we could easily stifle the creativity out of any formation we play We've effectively been playing 442 already: Whittaker Bird Shinnie Knight Sibley Marriott To be honest, Cocu's 4231 is actually a hybrid of 4231, 433 and 442 as we constantly change during the game. The biggest problem we have at the moment is personnel available. On Saturday we had only: Bird, Shinnie, Rooney, Knight, Sibley, Whittaker and Marriott as our first team midfield and forward options. Rooney clearly wasn't fit enough, hence why he was on the bench and only came on because we had to. Whether they have shown they deserve to start or not, we had little option but to field those players, unless we wanted to put an extra CB in there instead, or put Evans in there instead of Shinnie. With everyone fully fit, and targets signed we have a lot more options and flexibility. We're missing 7 players who add a direct threat and creativity to the team from where we will be in a months time - Bielik, Rooney (fully fit), Holmes, Lawrence, Jozwiak, Waghorn, a CF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaftesbury Street Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 Agree with a few comments above. If we want to get our goalscoring mojo back then 4-3-3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 Mike Bassett started this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard246 Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 Prefer 4-4-2 Other than that I like 4 -1-4-1 This will get 2 wingers bird sitting and Rooney and Sibley in the centre with a strong centre forward. This system would suit Derby perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimmu Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 You mean as a attacking formation? I watched only first half against Reading but we seemed to defend our own half with strict 4-4-2. Most of the pressing seemed to vary between 4-4-2 diamond and something very fluid which was hard to pick from the tv screen. Personally, I'm a fan of 4-3-3 attacking, 4-5-1 defending. That formation needs a excellent number ten though. And I'd never use two defensive midfielders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EraniosSocks Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 I was thinking about this weirdly yesterday. Imagine a David McGoldrick in the Derby team. Such a good Defensive Foward and would work so hard in a 433 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longeatonram2020 Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 Marshall Byrne MTW Clarke Buchanan Bird Rooney Jozwiak Sibley Lawrence Waghorn I believe is the strongest lineup when all fit to be honest, in that formation when played as dynamically as it should be. Bielik can easily displace either of the centre mids, likewise Wisdom for most of the backline. Signing wise 100% room for a striker, and either a winger or CAM would be nice to as Lawrence can always move inside. I like Sibley, but very much still learning his trade and another quality option there would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 4-3-3 is still the ultimate all round football formation for the modern game imo. Of course all formations have their merits, and that’s why different managers set up differently. But 4-3-3 is definitely my favourite, in terms of how it allows you to control the midfield. Personally I don’t buy that Cocu prefers it, he’s had plenty of chances to give it a go but he’s always stuck with the 4231. At least he hasn’t really ever properly switched to a 4-4-2, the mere thought of a “dynamic” midfield two of Bird and Rooney, with Marriott pulling his usual vanishing act up front, makes me want to gouge my eyes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 What drives me nuts is when we are starting with 2 defensive midfielders, i absolutely get it if we were 2-0 3-0 up in a game with 15 mins to go. In fact the whole defensive midfield bit annoys me no end, please win the game before you protect it but currently we have little else up front. 442 works well with hard working players who know their jobs and can do all aspects of their roles and I would always go for that formation especially in the championship where goals win games and 2 centre forwards working together have a better chance of scoring than one. In fact why do we need all those defenders plus two defensive midfielders when the opponent plays with one forward ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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