The Brentford Way

[RadioactiveWaste]

Brentford have their thing and in many ways it's commendable and they've played good football. Hard off to them. It won't work for everyone and if everyone tries to most will end up failing.

It does put the Sam Rush years and after recruitment at Derby into context though. We don't have to be trying to copy Brentford, arguably that aspect is where the desire to have academy graduates in the first team is our bit, but, we really really really should have been a lot smarter in recruitment.

[David]

2 hours ago, Andrew3000 said:

So only promotion is achievement? Don't get that reasoning. It's contradictory to praise our youth strategy at this point then, only valid if we get promoted or win a trophy?

Finances don't excite me but as a measure of building a club's resources it's positive. Together with playing good effective football not an achievement? 

We've longed for such signs of development.

So much to be impressed by for me.

Still, appreciate the debate it's interesting how other's see it.

 

It’s not contradicting, I was praising our academy but not trying to claim it’s achievement, just something to be proud of. 

Equally Brentford can be proud of their recruitment over the previous years.

For both of us, promotion would be an achievement, where as when the likes of Burton Albion enter the Championship, avoiding relegation was an achievement. 

I guess it depends on which parameters you personally see as an achievement.
If you’re saying Brentford have achieved more than us simply because their balance sheet and style of football are better than ours, I can’t get on board with that. 

Yes it’s true, but I would rather have spent like Leeds, Fulham and West Brom and actually got somewhere.

[RamNut]

6 minutes ago, David said:

Yes it’s true, but I would rather have spent like Leeds, Fulham and West Brom and actually got somewhere.

I don’t think Leeds have achieved by spending.

Bielsa achieved promotion - ten points clear at the top - with the basically the same group of players who finished 13th before he arrived.

Bamford was the only big money signing, and he came for the money they got for Clarke. Last summer they sold Jansen and Roofe. Bielsa should be the manager of the year. 

[David]

2 minutes ago, RamNut said:

I don’t think Leeds have achieved by spending.

Bielsa achieved promotion - ten points clear at the top - with the basically the same group of players who finished 13th before he arrived.

Bamford was the only big money signing, and he came for the money they got for Clarke. Last summer they sold Jansen and Roofe. Bielsa should be the manager of the year. 

They had whatshisname on loan with a must buy at the end of the season from Wolves, quite a tasty fee wasn’t it?

[RamNut]

1 hour ago, David said:

They had whatshisname on loan with a must buy at the end of the season from Wolves, quite a tasty fee wasn’t it?

If so, then Jansen and roofe paid for that.

[David]

6 minutes ago, RamNut said:

If so, then Jansen and roofe paid for that.

So shouldn’t we be sat here praising the “Leeds Way” then, Premier League now and rolling in the money, where as Brentford will be playing Wycombe away like us 

[Andicis]

1 hour ago, RamNut said:

I don’t think Leeds have achieved by spending.

Bielsa achieved promotion - ten points clear at the top - with the basically the same group of players who finished 13th before he arrived.

Bamford was the only big money signing, and he came for the money they got for Clarke. Last summer they sold Jansen and Roofe. Bielsa should be the manager of the year. 

They got Augustin or whatever his name is for an obligation to buy for £20 million, how is that not spending? 

[RamNut]

18 minutes ago, Andicis said:

They got Augustin or whatever his name is for an obligation to buy for £20 million, how is that not spending? 

They didn’t buy him and He only made 3 sub appearances?

[Andicis]

Just now, RamNut said:

They didn’t buy him and He only made 3 sub appearances?

They have an obligation to buy. They're buying him. 

[David]

13 minutes ago, Andicis said:

They have an obligation to buy. They're buying him. 

Leeds being Leeds are trying to get out of it. Let us loan him, promise we’ll buy him....realise he’s duff, actually nah we’re not going to, we’ll see you in court.

https://www.givemesport.com/1587670-leeds-united-pursuit-of-jeankevin-augustin-could-end-in-legal-dispute

Maybe the “Leeds Way” isn’t the way either 

[RamNut]

I’m sure if Cardiff can pretend that they never signed Sala, then getting out of this should be a doddle.

[David]

48 minutes ago, RamNut said:

I’m sure if Cardiff can pretend that they never signed Sala, then getting out of this should be a doddle.

Not got away with it have they, were forced to either pay the first instalment or face a 3 window transfer ban by FIFA. Appeal with CAS going through now.

Will get messy if they go through the same process for the remaining payments. 

Can’t understand Leeds, just got the big payday, just pay what you agreed, loan him out, hope he does well enough to persuade a club to buy him and recoup some of the fee. 

[Will Hughes Hair]

I think there are similarities between the Brentford approach and the club we are evolving into.

Brentford can't compete against their local London neighbours, in terms of recruiting youth players into an academy but they've thought about how they can turn that weakness into a strength by signing released academy players who aren't going to make it at a big club.  All other signings, are an investment to realise a return and as such recruitment choices are led by a combination of data and traditional scouting.  There is a big importance assigned to developing a player to increase player values.

Similarly Derby can't compete against clubs with parachute money in terms of fees and wages for established players.  However, although it's taken five or more years, we can have an international class academy with a route to first team football for academy players.  We can and have targeted talent for the academy, with a definitive view that academy players will be developed into first team players.  I'd suggest that our much maligned recruitment department does pretty well on these younger age groups and over the last twelve months the emphasis has also changed on senior recruiting; Holmes, Bielik; Evans; Te Wierik (hopefully); and Marriott would all fit a vision of recruiting players to add to their transfer value.  There is also a definitive focus on improving players and playing into a style under Cocu.

The other interesting part of the article is the view of the future of footballer and the need to develop footballers who take personal responsibility as athletes.  Definitely scope for this at Derby, and not just with reference to Joinersgate.  Cocu cited our collective fitness after the Leeds defeat.  Could double training sessions / 9-5 days be the norm over the coming decade?

[Andrew3000]

12 hours ago, Will Hughes Hair said:

I think there are similarities between the Brentford approach and the club we are evolving into.

Brentford can't compete against their local London neighbours, in terms of recruiting youth players into an academy but they've thought about how they can turn that weakness into a strength by signing released academy players who aren't going to make it at a big club.  All other signings, are an investment to realise a return and as such recruitment choices are led by a combination of data and traditional scouting.  There is a big importance assigned to developing a player to increase player values.

Similarly Derby can't compete against clubs with parachute money in terms of fees and wages for established players.  However, although it's taken five or more years, we can have an international class academy with a route to first team football for academy players.  We can and have targeted talent for the academy, with a definitive view that academy players will be developed into first team players.  I'd suggest that our much maligned recruitment department does pretty well on these younger age groups and over the last twelve months the emphasis has also changed on senior recruiting; Holmes, Bielik; Evans; Te Wierik (hopefully); and Marriott would all fit a vision of recruiting players to add to their transfer value.  There is also a definitive focus on improving players and playing into a style under Cocu.

The other interesting part of the article is the view of the future of footballer and the need to develop footballers who take personal responsibility as athletes.  Definitely scope for this at Derby, and not just with reference to Joinersgate.  Cocu cited our collective fitness after the Leeds defeat.  Could double training sessions / 9-5 days be the norm over the coming decade?

Enjoyed your response.  The strategy is much more nuanced than has been portrayed.  I like your application to Derby,  feels positive. The last point about fitness is intriguing. I remember those comments from Cocu and it gives more scope for improvement.

[Anon]

On 16/08/2020 at 10:51, Carnero said:

Exactly this.

If every club in the world followed the Brentford model then where would the players come from in 20 years time?

Sod Brentford.

That's a good point, but don't forget that the new tiered academy set up specifically disincentivises smaller clubs from having academies, since it allows higher tier academies to poach youth players at a fraction of the cost they were required to pay under the old tribunal system. Our academy is brilliant, but it only works because Mel put in a huge amount of money and effort to get tier 1 status, and that was only possible at all because of the foresight of Lionel Pickering in setting up Moor Farm.

Edited August 17, 2020 by Anon

[David]

 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

There's a hell of a lot that could be learned from the Brentford model.

[Andrew3000]

On 16/08/2020 at 18:06, David said:

So shouldn’t we be sat here praising the “Leeds Way” then, Premier League now and rolling in the money, where as Brentford will be playing Wycombe away like us 

We could do, they did well.  The appointment of Bielsa aside though, from what we know it doesn't appear half as radical or interesting for a big club with money to do that, compared with Brentford's methods to become a powerful club in our league.

Edited August 17, 2020 by Andrew3000

[David]

7 minutes ago, Andrew3000 said:

We could do, they did well.  The appointment of Bielsa aside though, from what we know it doesn't appear half as radical or interesting for a big club with money to do that, compared with Brentford's methods to become a powerful club in our league.

Still not seeing it, but happy to agree to disagree

[Andrew3000]

51 minutes ago, David said:

Still not seeing it, but happy to agree to disagree

Fair do's