Jump to content

The Brentford Way


Andrew3000

Recommended Posts

Yes, I'm one of those fans who has become somewhat beguiled by Brentford.  Looking at this article from 3 years ago, you have to admire their radical and clear vision.  At the time I recall scoffing at the reported reliance on stats and the decision to let Mark Warburton go.  It seemed like madness. Well, looking at it now it was and is a great business model. It was way ahead of other clubs and their ability to implement the plan has been remarkable.

At the time, Derby had more resources and a shorter term strategy,so many of the elements of this model would not have suited us at the time. In contrast our academy may actually keep us competitive for a while.  

However, necessity is the mother of invention and so Covid-19 May force many more clubs to copy this model. This may make it tougher for them and others to recruit in their usual markets.

Recent noises from Derby indicated a more coherent plan even before lockdown .  Lets hope so. It is inspiring to read how creative Brentford have been and the reasoning behind their strategy.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2718752-brentfords-moneyball-way-to-beat-football-teams-with-huge-budgets.amp.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Andrew3000 said:

Obviously.  Is that your only reflection?  For me, how such a small club has overtaken us as one of the best teams in the division is a great story. 

It isn't necessarily all down to what they've done as to what we haven't. What fits one doesn't fit all. They're still in the same division.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think at some point, you are going to lose the ability to keep on replacing these players over and over again. 

Take Southampton when they first went up, they had an amazing knack of selling Lallana or Shaw or Lambert and dipping into a foreign market and finding someone as good for half the price. Didn’t take long until they started struggling to do that, as other teams caught on. It won’t be long before an agent finds out Brentford are in for his or her player, and knowing their reputation, will be telling other clubs who can pay them a bit more how good he is. So the trouble with them not being promoted yet, is how much longer can they keep being good for when they can’t pay particularly high wages (despite their wages / turnover ratio being one of the highest in the league, I read). Things like Exeter only wanting half the money for Watkins from them as they did us, for example, won’t happen any more.

Last season felt like it should’ve been the one, what with them spending big on players outside their model, such as Pontus and attempting to sign Lyle Taylor in January, so I wonder how they will replace Watkins, or Benrahma, or Dasilva if he goes as well.

They deserve credit for their model and normalising analytics in football, which is an interesting subject in itself, but as with Bournemouth the plucky underdogs tag starts to lose its credibility when they are paying £5m for Mbeumo, or when they spent the most on a keeper as a team in this league has done for years if not ever, or signing Danish internationals from top flight La Liga teams.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, David said:

Buy cheap players, come close, sell those for large fees, rinse and repeat. 

They should be in a great financial position, but I would be hugely frustrated that we couldn’t just keep hold of our best players. 

Not sure I like the no academy decision either, watching come through and develop is great to see

I think that's quite dismissive of what they've achieved.

I agree that our academy is a source of pride,satisfaction and excitement. As I implied the model doesn't fit all contexts.

But we are also deluding ourselves if we think that we won't sell our some of our best players as time goes on and the finances get tighter. 

We came close and lost 3 our 3 best players last year, albeit in different circs as they were loans but just as frustrating for me. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, nottingram said:

I think at some point, you are going to lose the ability to keep on replacing these players over and over again. 

Take Southampton when they first went up, they had an amazing knack of selling Lallana or Shaw or Lambert and dipping into a foreign market and finding someone as good for half the price. Didn’t take long until they started struggling to do that, as other teams caught on. It won’t be long before an agent finds out Brentford are in for his or her player, and knowing their reputation, will be telling other clubs who can pay them a bit more how good he is. So the trouble with them not being promoted yet, is how much longer can they keep being good for when they can’t pay particularly high wages (despite their wages / turnover ratio being one of the highest in the league, I read). Things like Exeter only wanting half the money for Watkins from them as they did us, for example, won’t happen any more.

Last season felt like it should’ve been the one, what with them spending big on players outside their model, such as Pontus and attempting to sign Lyle Taylor in January, so I wonder how they will replace Watkins, or Benrahma, or Dasilva if he goes as well.

They deserve credit for their model and normalising analytics in football, which is an interesting subject in itself, but as with Bournemouth the plucky underdogs tag starts to lose its credibility when they are paying £5m for Mbeumo, or when they spent the most on a keeper as a team in this league has done for years if not ever, or signing Danish internationals from top flight La Liga teams.

 

Agreed, it will get tougher over the long term. Also their increased spends shows that the model is flexible. They accumulated huge profit and can reinvest within FFP. Their bigger signings worked too and retain good value. Good for them I say.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Carnero said:

Exactly this.

If every club in the world followed the Brentford model then where would the players come from in 20 years time?

Sod Brentford.

Sod Brentford! That's class. 

Who is implying that we all follow the model? Any system needs diversity for it to work as a whole.  I'm simply enjoying and appreciating a different and clear vision from a rival tribe.

As a Derby fan I enjoy our academy success immensely  and will be even more delighted if our new model is right for us is consistently and effectively applied and we grow as a club.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Andrew3000 said:

I think that's quite dismissive of what they've achieved.

I agree that our academy is a source of pride,satisfaction and excitement. As I implied the model doesn't fit all contexts.

But we are also deluding ourselves if we think that we won't sell our some of our best players as time goes on and the finances get tighter. 

We came close and lost 3 our 3 best players last year, albeit in different circs as they were loans but just as frustrating for me. 

What have they achieved?

We’re both still in the Championship having been to Wembley and underperformed. 

They have achieved no more than we have.

It’s only a matter of days until the vultures swoop and they are back to square one again. 

I really don’t see anything special going on there, more excited with what’s going on here with Lowe, Bogle, Bird, Knight, Sibley....a core of young players that could go far. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, David said:

What have they achieved?

We’re both still in the Championship having been to Wembley and underperformed. 

They have achieved no more than we have.

It’s only a matter of days until the vultures swoop and they are back to square one again. 

I really don’t see anything special going on there, more excited with what’s going on here with Lowe, Bogle, Bird, Knight, Sibley....a core of young players that could go far. 

The achievement is relative to their resources.  Also, relative to us,where did they finish in the league? What is the state of their finances? Arguably, they could sell 2 players and reinvest heavily and make a profit.  Not a given they could do this as successfully as before but theyve a great track record. Not quite back to square 1.

I'm quite surprised at the lack of appreciation here. Take your tribal bias out of it for sec and it's impressive.

Ok maybe too business focussed for some, but they still got to a play-off final with a clever, low risk strategy playing entertaining football.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, David said:

What have they achieved?

We’re both still in the Championship having been to Wembley and underperformed. 

They have achieved no more than we have.

It’s only a matter of days until the vultures swoop and they are back to square one again. 

I really don’t see anything special going on there, more excited with what’s going on here with Lowe, Bogle, Bird, Knight, Sibley....a core of young players that could go far. 

Much as it pains me, if our youngsters maintain or improve and we don't, then we are unlikely to fend off the same vultures.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Andrew3000 said:

The achievement is relative to their resources.  Also, relative to us,where did they finish in the league? What is the state of their finances? Arguably, they could sell 2 players and reinvest heavily and make a profit.  Not a given they could do this as successfully as before but theyve a great track record. Not quite back to square 1.

I'm quite surprised at the lack of appreciation here. Take your tribal bias out of it for sec and it's impressive.

Ok maybe too business focussed for some, but they still got to a play-off final with a clever, low risk strategy playing entertaining football.

There is no tribal bias, I just struggle to see what you find so impressive.

Sure they finished above us last season and played entertaining football but they have achieved nothing.

Still in the Championship with us despite this highly praised strategy. 

Great, they can make a profit, would please an accountant and a businessman/woman, but I’m a football fan, what impresses me is what happens on the pitch, not a balance sheet. 

Again they played great football last season, but achieved no more than we have.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Andrew3000 said:

The achievement is relative to their resources.  Also, relative to us,where did they finish in the league? What is the state of their finances? Arguably, they could sell 2 players and reinvest heavily and make a profit.  Not a given they could do this as successfully as before but theyve a great track record. Not quite back to square 1.

I'm quite surprised at the lack of appreciation here. Take your tribal bias out of it for sec and it's impressive.

Ok maybe too business focussed for some, but they still got to a play-off final with a clever, low risk strategy playing entertaining football.

As others have said they have achieved nothing of note so far. If it gets them promoted perhaps we will change our minds, but as yet they have never been in the Premier League and have only finished in the Championship playoffs twice in their entire history. We used to purchase players on the cheap and turn them into world beaters under the likes of Burley, Clough and Davies, but that model can't never last forever.

Personally I think the lack of an academy is a short sighted move, but if it gets them promoted I'm sure they won't care. I also don't think they will be anywhere near as successful next season.

Edited by GenBr
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You have to admire their recruitment. But they can play that game because they are well in credit on sales. They were actually heavy spenders last summer. But they could do it because they sold Maupay for £20m.

We spent far less than Brentford in getting into our financial fix, but we spent badly. We bought duffers with no re-sale value. And we have been very inconsistent, chopping and changing managers, players, and style of play. 

in a way Brentford are just another model of what championship clubs are being forced to become - financially restricted feeder clubs. 
they have also found a way to tap into the foreign market - particularly Denmark - by doing a Watford And having an owner who has acquired a foreign based feeder club to act as a bridgehead. 

you would hope that with cocu and the Dutch coaches we could be tapping into the Netherlands for talent. So far - besides te wierik - it doesn’t seem to be happening, and we have all our eggs in one academy-sized basket. But that’s what we should be doing.

Find a market, and find players who can fill the gaps, and would be attracted to Derby and our Dutch coaches. In the short term those players are going to have to be cheap or swaps because we don’t have the leeway to invest in chips the way that Brentford have. We are at square one, whilst Brentford are some way down the track. But it’s not all success for them. They have just released Dru Yarwood Who was a highly rated holding midfield player who couldn’t get a game (recommended by @sage incidentally - which just shows that you don’t have to be good looking to be a good scout ?). 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, RamNut said:

They have just released Dru Yarwood Who was a highly rated holding midfield player who couldn’t get a game (recommended by @sage incidentally - which just shows that you don’t have to be good looking to be a good scout ?). 

You got that the wrong way round you plank @RamNut

TBF he has gone to New York Red Bulls which isn't a disaster for him. I would also suggest many of our midfielders wouldn't get a game in Brentford's team last season. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, sage said:

You got that the wrong way round you plank @RamNut

TBF he has gone to New York Red Bulls which isn't a disaster for him. I would also suggest many of our midfielders wouldn't get a game in Brentford's team last season. 

I’m saying he’s a good player.
But Brentford are over doing the recruitment a bit now, and have the same sort of fall out as the clubs they supposedly feed off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, David said:

There is no tribal bias, I just struggle to see what you find so impressive.

Sure they finished above us last season and played entertaining football but they have achieved nothing.

Still in the Championship with us despite this highly praised strategy. 

Great, they can make a profit, would please an accountant and a businessman/woman, but I’m a football fan, what impresses me is what happens on the pitch, not a balance sheet. 

Again they played great football last season, but achieved no more than we 

So only promotion is achievement? Don't get that reasoning. It's contradictory to praise our youth strategy at this point then, only valid if we get promoted or win a trophy?

Finances don't excite me but as a measure of building a club's resources it's positive. Together with playing good effective football not an achievement? 

We've longed for such signs of development.

So much to be impressed by for me.

Still, appreciate the debate it's interesting how other's see it.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, Andrew3000 said:

So only promotion is achievement? Don't get that reasoning. It's contradictory to praise our youth strategy at this point then, only valid if we get promoted or win a trophy?

Finances don't excite me but as a measure of building a club's resources it's positive. Together with playing good effective football not an achievement? 

We've longed for such signs of development.

So much to be impressed by for me.

Still, appreciate the debate it's interesting how other's see it.

 

You could play nice looking football and finish bottom of the league. Playing nicely is not an achievement on its own. We've played some great football in recent seasons, but accomplished nothing with it.

And yes our youth strategy so far hasn't produced much of note either - we have a lot of players with potential, but if they don't develop any further it will have been a failure. If their strategy accomplishes nothing more than staying in the Championship then it will also have failed. We're the longest serving team in the Championship now and we've tried various different methods to get out and achieved basically nothing of any lasting value for all that time.

Just playing a nice brand of football for me is not that impressive and reaching the playoffs is not that impressive unless you win them. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account.

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...