Derby County Supporter/Fan or Derby County Bandwagon Jumper of Discontent?

[Inverurie Ram]

So what are you? and if your not happy in your current position, would you like to change to the other?

I thought about doing a poll, but what would the figures mean, and matter to you?

 "If your a supporter or fan of our club, you should support our players and not go after him........Phillip Cocu"

I don't do Twitter or Instagram etc but if I did I would treat people the way I would like to be treated in return.

The biggest laugh I find when reading this forum is that quite a lot of posters seem to object that it's bang out of order when folk do it on Twitter but it's ok to do it on here because it's a forum, I don't see any difference whatsoever. We are all posting on social media and our posts are read by many folk and interpreted in many ways.

I really love what Philip Cocu has said again about his players and his club and he again underlines the importance of respect, manners and the importance of trying  to go about life and the way we live it, in a wonderful way, together with unity and dignity.

I've posted on here many times over the years, the importance of supporting your club and the way our club is perceived by others.

We all have a very important part to play when we wear the Derby County shirt and we should all wear it with pride and respect of our club when wearing it home and away and all around the world and that goes for everything we say and write about our beloved Derby County Football Club.

Love it, Respect it and Support it.

I would also like to add how well Jason Knight speaks and plays and here's hoping he gets all his rewards for the hard work he shows and his passion and desire helps him and the team and us supporters feel so proud.

PS I don't post as often since the forum upgrade as my iPad is no longer compatible, and I refuse to be dictated by Apple in my life, and whatever changes are made through technology, here's hoping people can become as nice as the wonderful Phillip Cocu and his team of workers at our wonderful club that are doing their very best for Derby County Supporters / Fans.

D.C.F.C Love, Life & Unity.

[G STAR RAM]

Being critical of a player on a forum doesnt make you any less of a fan.

Personally abusing our players to their face or via social media makes you a knob.

 

[Ghost of Clough]

7 hours ago, Inverurie Ram said:

The biggest laugh I find when reading this forum is that quite a lot of posters seem to object that it's bang out of order when folk do it on Twitter but it's ok to do it on here because it's a forum, I don't see any difference whatsoever. We are all posting on social media and our posts are read by many folk and interpreted in many ways.I

This issue is directly messaging the players. 
If a player has a bad game, they know fans will be talking about their performance. It’s on them whether they look on a forum or search twitter posts for those opinions. However, it’s completely different when directly messaged. 

[RoyMac5]

I’m confused, is a ‘jumper of discontent’ something you wear akin to a hair shirt?!

[cheron85]

8 hours ago, Inverurie Ram said:

I don't do Twitter or Instagram etc but if I did I would treat people the way I would like to be treated in return.

The biggest laugh I find when reading this forum is that quite a lot of posters seem to object that it's bang out of order when folk do it on Twitter but it's ok to do it on here because it's a forum, I don't see any difference whatsoever. We are all posting on social media and our posts are read by many folk and interpreted in many ways.

The problem is - Lot's of people don't

There are so many people out there who wouldn't say boo to a goose in person who are quite happy to throw hate and vitriol at people online because they know they're safe at the other end of a keyboard - Especially at players who may have had a bad game - Twitter is open to the entire world and you can find anyone on it - This forum is a private members club where the only people here have chosen to engage in debate

Would you condone people waiting around after a game to hurl abuse at a player? I really feel that you wouldn't - But that's what some people feel they have a right to do on Twitter

8 hours ago, Inverurie Ram said:

We all have a very important part to play when we wear the Derby County shirt and we should all wear it with pride and respect of our club when wearing it home and away and all around the world and that goes for everything we say and write about our beloved Derby County Football Club.

Love it, Respect it and Support it.

I don't actually have a shirt - Does that mean I can say whatever I want? ?

[TuffLuff]

I think people miss the point on this, probably on purpose to protect themselves. You can’t hide behind ‘it’s a forum’ and ‘we are having a discussion’ to hide against OTT or targeted comments that can be crossing the line.

Ofcourse a discussion on Hamer’s form and a mistake in a game is fine but threads titled ‘Goalkeepers are pathetic’ and comments like ‘hes the worst goalkeeper I’ve ever seen’ is not only unhelpful but a targeted attack.

Again it’s about thinking before you post and actually what you are wanting to contribute to a discussion. Amazingly sometimes a comment in the heat in the moment probably isn’t worth it.

[Srg]

8 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

I think people miss the point on this, probably on purpose to protect themselves. You can’t hide behind ‘it’s a forum’ and ‘we are having a discussion’ to hide against OTT or targeted comments that can be crossing the line.

Ofcourse a discussion on Hamer’s form and a mistake in a game is fine but threads titled ‘Goalkeepers are pathetic’ and comments like ‘hes the worst goalkeeper I’ve ever seen’ is not only unhelpful but a targeted attack.

Again it’s about thinking before you post and actually what you are wanting to contribute to a discussion. Amazingly sometimes a comment in the heat in the moment probably isn’t worth it.

I disagree again. Comments like "he's the worst goalkeeper I've ever seen" isn't a targeted attack, it's just a hyperbolic overreaction for exaggerated affect. Game to game someone is the worst player they've ever seen if you speak or read anything. 

It crosses the line when it just turns to name calling and badgering. 

[TuffLuff]

41 minutes ago, Srg said:

I disagree again. Comments like "he's the worst goalkeeper I've ever seen" isn't a targeted attack, it's just a hyperbolic overreaction for exaggerated affect. Game to game someone is the worst player they've ever seen if you speak or read anything. 

It crosses the line when it just turns to name calling and badgering. 

But why can’t it ever be both? Also if hyperbole goes unchecked then don’t you eventually get what occurred after the game when people overstep the line?

From what I saw on Saturday was largely people on Twitter and on here going after players they obviously didn’t like, with Hamer getting the brunt (which had been brewing up for the best part of a week which again spurred an OTT response). Hamer is pretty much the perfect example of this because a lot of discussion has continued to be about goalkeepers rather than the defence as a whole. I largely felt uncomfortable about it and decided it was best to step away from here, I didn’t even know about the petition stuff until yesterday. Point is, that as someone who frequents the forum I was looking on Saturday and thought it was going too far on here never mind on social media. It wasn’t abuse but I did think it there was targeted posts that went beyond a bit of a ‘close to the bone’ reaction.

I don’t particularly mind the hyperbole, but I don’t think just because we are on a forum that we make it ok for ourselves either. Again it’s about ‘think before you post’ to me, that’s it

[Srg]

2 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

But why can’t it ever be both? Also if hyperbole goes unchecked then don’t you eventually get what occurred after the game when people overstep the line?

From what I saw on Saturday was largely people on Twitter and on here going after players they obviously didn’t like, with Hamer getting the brunt (which had been brewing up for the best part of a week which again spurred an OTT response). Hamer is pretty much the perfect example of this because a lot of discussion has continued to be about goalkeepers rather than the defence as a whole. I largely felt uncomfortable about it and decided it was best to step away from here, I didn’t even know about the petition stuff until yesterday. Point is, that as someone who frequents the forum I was looking on Saturday and thought it was going too far on here never mind on social media. It wasn’t abuse but I did think it there was targeted posts that went beyond a bit of a ‘close to the bone’ reaction.

I don’t particularly mind the hyperbole, but I don’t think just because we are on a forum that we make it ok for ourselves either. Again it’s about ‘think before you post’ to me, that’s it

Didn’t say it should go unchecked. It’s just not a targeted attack in my book. You’d have to censor most conversations about football if over the top hyperbole was down as a personal attack. 

[sage]

2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

I’m confused, is a ‘jumper of discontent’ something you wear akin to a hair shirt?!

Maybe it's because you only wear it in winter. 

[AbuDerbyDave]

3 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

I’m confused, is a ‘jumper of discontent’ something you wear akin to a hair shirt?!

Its Shakespeare's obviously was not warm enough for the winter

[Andicis]

3 hours ago, TuffLuff said:

But why can’t it ever be both? Also if hyperbole goes unchecked then don’t you eventually get what occurred after the game when people overstep the line?

From what I saw on Saturday was largely people on Twitter and on here going after players they obviously didn’t like, with Hamer getting the brunt (which had been brewing up for the best part of a week which again spurred an OTT response). Hamer is pretty much the perfect example of this because a lot of discussion has continued to be about goalkeepers rather than the defence as a whole. I largely felt uncomfortable about it and decided it was best to step away from here, I didn’t even know about the petition stuff until yesterday. Point is, that as someone who frequents the forum I was looking on Saturday and thought it was going too far on here never mind on social media. It wasn’t abuse but I did think it there was targeted posts that went beyond a bit of a ‘close to the bone’ reaction.

I don’t particularly mind the hyperbole, but I don’t think just because we are on a forum that we make it ok for ourselves either. Again it’s about ‘think before you post’ to me, that’s it

Because it's completely different if you're @ing them on twitter, or if you're direct messaging them on twitter or if you're criticising their performance on here. The only way Hamer would ever see this is if he went out of his way to look at it. The only post I saw on here that could be considered personal is one poster claimed they hated Hamer, but talking about his performance and calling him rubbish is fine. 

[Nuwtfly]

I didn't really want to wade into this debate too much. I have a lot of thoughts on the state of "Derby Twitter" as it were, and Twitter/Social Media discourse in general, and I'm not sure I'd be able to do it justice without spending a lot of time on it. But one point I want to make is this:

Are we really going to be the sort of society that does not allow people to make mistakes? 

Yes, overly-intense, overly-hyperbolic hyper-criticism is a bad thing. Of course it is. And 99% of the time it comes from a place of heat-of-the-moment, overly-emotional absent mindedness. We should do more as individuals to recognise that jumping on social media, when in this sort of state, is not a smart idea.

But do we really need to all collectively grab our pitch forks and utterly castigate anyone who says/does anything that can be deemed as rude/offensive/bad?

Yes, the Ben Hamer petition was stupid. Of course it was. But the (young) lad responsible recognised his mistake. Apologised for it. Sought to rectify it. Apologised for it again. And again. And again.

And yet even today, there are still people sat on the sofas, staring at their phones, seemingly up-in-arms about how awful that clearly stupid, poor taste joke was. Some are now using it as an opportunity to hammer OTHER Derby fans, who had nothing to do with it. It's like this strange wave of overreaction, and every one has to be a part of it. Or has to be seen to be a part of it, for whatever reason. It reminds me a little bit of Arthur Miller's The Crucible. It all makes me feel quite uncomfortable.

Can we not try and get to a place where, if someone says/does something stupid, we use it as an opportunity to learn something, to educate people, and then let people go back to just supporting their team? Rather than piling on someone? I don't know. It doesn't seem like that big an ask. It feels like something we would all want, if we were the one who made said mistake.

Anyway, rant over. The petition was bad. The pitchforking was bad. Accepting apologies and supporting our club is good. 

[ilkleyram]

13 hours ago, Inverurie Ram said:

So what are you? and if your not happy in your current position, would you like to change to the other?

I thought about doing a poll, but what would the figures mean, and matter to you?

 "If your a supporter or fan of our club, you should support our players and not go after him........Phillip Cocu"

I don't do Twitter or Instagram etc but if I did I would treat people the way I would like to be treated in return.

The biggest laugh I find when reading this forum is that quite a lot of posters seem to object that it's bang out of order when folk do it on Twitter but it's ok to do it on here because it's a forum, I don't see any difference whatsoever. We are all posting on social media and our posts are read by many folk and interpreted in many ways.

I really love what Philip Cocu has said again about his players and his club and he again underlines the importance of respect, manners and the importance of trying  to go about life and the way we live it, in a wonderful way, together with unity and dignity.

I've posted on here many times over the years, the importance of supporting your club and the way our club is perceived by others.

We all have a very important part to play when we wear the Derby County shirt and we should all wear it with pride and respect of our club when wearing it home and away and all around the world and that goes for everything we say and write about our beloved Derby County Football Club.

Love it, Respect it and Support it.

I would also like to add how well Jason Knight speaks and plays and here's hoping he gets all his rewards for the hard work he shows and his passion and desire helps him and the team and us supporters feel so proud.

PS I don't post as often since the forum upgrade as my iPad is no longer compatible, and I refuse to be dictated by Apple in my life, and whatever changes are made through technology, here's hoping people can become as nice as the wonderful Phillip Cocu and his team of workers at our wonderful club that are doing their very best for Derby County Supporters / Fans.

D.C.F.C Love, Life & Unity.

@Inverurie Ram, there’s lots in your comment (and Phillip Cocu’s comments) with which I agree.  Many, it appears, do not recognise the power of the written word to hurt as well as inspire and rarely seem to consider the impact of what they write on those they are writing about.  At times I wonder whether some (including on these pages) have the capacity to be kind to others, to consider alternative views or, frankly, care about the impact of what they write.  Perhaps I’m the same when I write about Mick Coop, but at least I judge before I press send that it is extremely unlikely that he will inhabit this forum, the real one anyway.

But you are both, unfortunately, whistling in the wind.  ‘It’s free speech’, ‘It’s my opinion and I’m entitled to say it’, ‘They’re paid a fortune so I can write what I want’, ‘they choose to play football – they can take the rough with the smooth’, ‘I pay their wages’, ‘it’s a forum’ and more will all provide enough self justification to prevent there from being any change bar external censorship or the laws of libel.

Footballers in truth are not the only recipients.  So too are politicians, companies, cricketers, doctors, local newspapers and Ed Dawes.  The list is as long as you want it to be.  I don’t blame Ben Hamer for closing whatever social media account he closed.  My only surprise was that he (and others in the public eye) had an open account that meant he could read what people of no interest to him thought.  And we wonder why messages are so controlled now, why we can’t access people in the way in which we did, why debate is leaving our language, why @David had to close the politics thread.