Tribunal Update

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

14 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

How can you say you find my comments offensive to someone else? Totally nonsensical statement. 

I've posted a fact that everyone is getting all hung up about whether we are going to get a points deduction or not but no one is commenting on the root cause behind why we are in this position, the potential points deduction is the secondary not the primary cause in this.

If that's not acceptable to comment on then I was under the impression this was a forum and you tell me what is OK to debate or not. 

If you think that also I am not entitled to be concerned about how the club got into this position then again please tell me, I didn't realise you were the online censor on this forum.

I won't post anything more as clearly if your viewpoint doesn't fit in with your perspective then that's a cardinal hanging offence. 

 

Don't be silly. Of course I can find your comments offensive to Mel as I have sufficirnt empathy to put myself in his shoes. Obviously you don't. I won't respond further. No point. 

[nottingram]

32 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

How can you say you find my comments offensive to someone else? Totally nonsensical statement. 

I've posted a fact that everyone is getting all hung up about whether we are going to get a points deduction or not but no one is commenting on the root cause behind why we are in this position, the potential points deduction is the secondary not the primary cause in this.

If that's not acceptable to comment on then I was under the impression this was a forum and you tell me what is OK to debate or not. 

If you think that also I am not entitled to be concerned about how the club got into this position then again please tell me, I didn't realise you were the online censor on this forum.

I won't post anything more as clearly if your viewpoint doesn't fit in with your perspective then that's a cardinal hanging offence. 

 

How much further do we take it?

Clearly the stadium has had to be sold because we overspent, that much is clear and you aren’t some wise oracle for pointing that out. 

But I could take that one step further and ask why we overspent? Maybe it’s to appease a fan base who are spoiled and crave success?

In truth, Mel can’t win. He doesn’t spend a penny and he’ll get stick for milking the club dry. He overspends in order to try and do best by the club and the supporters and it’s his fault we’ve sold the stadium.

[Sith Happens]

1 hour ago, The Orange Pimpernel said:

No we weren't. Mel was trying to fund a competitive  club. We all rave and sometimes demand success as fans. Mel can't win. Fund the club within its means and be mid table every season or challenge for promotion agsinst the grossly unfsir parachute payment clubs. I find your comments offensive  to a guy who has poured millions into our club. With fans like you I would walk away if I were Mel. 

I have always been very supportive of Mel, but i do think you are being harsh in your appraisal of Tyler Durdens post.

I don't see anywhere that he is being disrespectful, calling for Mel to go or anything else, its just asking the question how we find ourselves in a position having to defend our actions, and at risk of sanctions of some form or other.

You are right Mel, and any club owner, is potentially in a damned if you do postion, but ultimately while Mel may have put his trust in Managers and others within the club to determine what players should be purchased, and what we should spend our money on, the responsibility does lie with the person at the top, and thats Mel.

I would be surprised if many can defend some of the spending we have made, the January window under Clement, £4 million on Anya, the 'apparant' low sum we got for Will Hughes, the firing, hiring, firing of Steve...just some examples.

Because someone pumps millions in shouldnt make them immune from taking responsibility, I want Mel to succeed, I want Derby to succeed, I like whats happening with the academy, I also feel the EFL are too restricitve in what they will allow an owner to spend on his own club...you are right in my opinion about parachute payments and it not being a level playing field..But...Mel and the club know the rules they are working within, and I applaud him finding ways to 'get around' those restraints, but the buck stops with him and I really dont see it as offensive to ask the question how we find ourselves in that position in the first place.

Hopefully we will succeed in our defence and not receive any sanction, but if we do I do sort of feel Mel will have played his 'get out of jail free' card as we don't have many assets at that value that we can do the same with again. Hopefully the use of the academy players going forward will be a success and will negate the need for costly player purchases and hefty wages which might potentially put us at risk again.

[May Contain Nuts]

8 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

 

I would be surprised if many can defend some of the spending we have made, the January window under Clement, £4 million on Anya, the 'apparant' low sum we got for Will Hughes, the firing, hiring, firing of Steve...just some examples.

I think they can all be defended and mostly justified (at the time they happened) if you take your supporters head off and don't apply too much hindsight.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

On another note have the EFL at any stage voiced how on earth the clubs in their league are going to survive with potentially no fans and dramatic decrease in revenue? Have the EPL made any mention if they are at all concerned the lower professional leagues could be decimated? If not what are the powers that be doing. This is a major crisis which isn't being addressed. 

Please move if this is the wrong thread. 

[MackworthRamIsGod]

9 minutes ago, The Orange Pimpernel said:

On another note have the EFL at any stage voiced how on earth the clubs in their league are going to survive with potentially no fans and dramatic decrease in revenue? Have the EPL made any mention if they are at all concerned the lower professional leagues could be decimated? If not what are the powers that be doing. This is a major crisis which isn't being addressed. 

Please move if this is the wrong thread. 

It's my problem with the EFL.

They havent come out and said anything to my knowledge about protecting clubs during this time.

It wouldn't surprise me if the EFL see this as playing into their hands as more clubs will fall foul of FFP resulting in further sanctions for clubs.

 

[Sith Happens]

7 minutes ago, The Orange Pimpernel said:

On another note have the EFL at any stage voiced how on earth the clubs in their league are going to survive with potentially no fans and dramatic decrease in revenue? Have the EPL made any mention if they are at all concerned the lower professional leagues could be decimated? If not what are the powers that be doing. This is a major crisis which isn't being addressed. 

Please move if this is the wrong thread. 

I don't know if they have, I would hope that there would be a significant relaxation of FFP or whatever we want to call it, but that still wont stop clubs going into administration.

I think most of us know what the answer is, or at least in my opinion it is, is a great distrubution of wealth from the higher divisions including the premier league, but I also think we all know it won't happen.

 

[Sith Happens]

26 minutes ago, Coconut said:

I think they can all be defended and mostly justified (at the time they happened) if you take your supporters head off and don't apply too much hindsight.

No of course you are right, a lot is judged with hindsight, often thats the only way you can do it.

As fans of course we didnt know that we were at risk of failing to meet FFP rules as Mel always assured us that FFP was not a concern.

Like i said, I hope Mel has pulled off a masterstroke and all will be good.

[Van der MoodHoover]

7 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

It's my problem with the EFL.

They havent come out and said anything to my knowledge about protecting clubs during this time.

It wouldn't surprise me if the EFL see this as playing into their hands as more clubs will fall foul of FFP resulting in further sanctions for clubs.

 

thought FFP was being suspended for one season, so that might be extended. Doesn't make clubs more sustainable of course, just let's them drown in higher debt just like the rest of the economy. 

[rammieib]

9 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I believe the hearing dates were set before lockdown. There was never any intention for the penalty to be applied to this season. Would it be fair to apply the penalty this season just because it’s lasted longer than it should? 

Well should Wigan’s 12 points be applied next season then?

[sonofmidnight]

What really annoys me is that once again our pre season is marred  by uncertainty.  The whole debacle needs to be sorted out, done and dusted so that clubs can focus fully on the coming season.

[TomG]

I think that the way that the EFL are dealing with these points deduction issues are, not only fostering uncertainty with the clubs concerned, but also leaving themselves open to the the type of legal challenge supposedly being taken by Charlton Athletic.  They need to sort out their protocols.

[David]

1 hour ago, nottingram said:

How much further do we take it?

Clearly the stadium has had to be sold because we overspent, that much is clear and you aren’t some wise oracle for pointing that out. 

But I could take that one step further and ask why we overspent? Maybe it’s to appease a fan base who are spoiled and crave success?

In truth, Mel can’t win. He doesn’t spend a penny and he’ll get stick for milking the club dry. He overspends in order to try and do best by the club and the supporters and it’s his fault we’ve sold the stadium.

What’s the fastest way for a rich man to lose his money?

Buy a football club close to your heart. 

[Rampage]

Is it just me or is it looking more and more likely that next season will be a transition season. It will be if we are docked 12 points. May take us 9 games to get to no points.

[ilkleyram]

49 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

I have always been very supportive of Mel, but i do think you are being harsh in your appraisal of Tyler Durdens post.

I don't see anywhere that he is being disrespectful, calling for Mel to go or anything else, its just asking the question how we find ourselves in a position having to defend our actions, and at risk of sanctions of some form or other.

You are right Mel, and any club owner, is potentially in a damned if you do postion, but ultimately while Mel may have put his trust in Managers and others within the club to determine what players should be purchased, and what we should spend our money on, the responsibility does lie with the person at the top, and thats Mel.

I would be surprised if many can defend some of the spending we have made, the January window under Clement, £4 million on Anya, the 'apparant' low sum we got for Will Hughes, the firing, hiring, firing of Steve...just some examples.

Because someone pumps millions in shouldnt make them immune from taking responsibility, I want Mel to succeed, I want Derby to succeed, I like whats happening with the academy, I also feel the EFL are too restricitve in what they will allow an owner to spend on his own club...you are right in my opinion about parachute payments and it not being a level playing field..But...Mel and the club know the rules they are working within, and I applaud him finding ways to 'get around' those restraints, but the buck stops with him and I really dont see it as offensive to ask the question how we find ourselves in that position in the first place.

Hopefully we will succeed in our defence and not receive any sanction, but if we do I do sort of feel Mel will have played his 'get out of jail free' card as we don't have many assets at that value that we can do the same with again. Hopefully the use of the academy players going forward will be a success and will negate the need for costly player purchases and hefty wages which might potentially put us at risk again.

I think that assessment and tyler's post misjudges Mel's role as owner/chairman/prime funder and the roles of CEOs and football managers.

Sure Mel's money might well have supported us significantly in the past and certainly now we have no other income, but blaming him when ticket sales and TV money is a good percentage of our income in normal times, ignores that fact. Blaming Mel also ignores the role that the likes of Sam Rush played in sacking and recruiting managers and players and then negotiating the contracts. Mel might - I suspect he didn't - have had the final say but what would any group of fans say if there was any suggestion that an owner was making the decision on which player to buy or sell or which manager to have or sack?
Mel has very consistently supported his managers and CEOs in their management of football matters.  He's allowed them to hire and fire players and managers and backed them to the hilt, probably at times against his personal judgement or his views as a fan, as any good Chairman should do. If the Chairman of any organisation starts effectively running that organisation over the heads of professional managers then the organisation is in trouble.

I'm sure Mel would admit to having made mistakes. Perhaps he's too challenging for some managers; perhaps he allowed Sam Rush too much freedom to act.  It’s a very hard balance to find for any chairman and avoid the accusation of interfering or micro managing. From the outside it appears to be very hard to blame him for doing anything other than his very best for the club, and, by extension, those of us who are fans. We sure need his continuing financial support over the next year if we are to have a club to support at all.

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

2 hours ago, Reggie Greenwood said:

Not at all would be very surprised if DCFC get any punishment at all . 

Why have we got a charge then? 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

6 hours ago, rustylee said:

If I was a Sheff Wed fan I would rather have the points deduction this season and start next season with a clean slate in league one.

I think it can be underestimated what a slog fest it is getting out that league.  Seen us play there and it's turgid and Derby are a massive scalp at that level as Wednesday would be. If your a player used to playing at Fleetwood every week in front of a few thousand at best, the chance to play in front of 20,000 plus at Pride Park raises the game a huge notch.

They are better off starting next season on minus 12 in this league.

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

20 minutes ago, Rampage said:

Is it just me or is it looking more and more likely that next season will be a transition season. It will be if we are docked 12 points. May take us 9 games to get to no points.

Make that ten seasons of transition in a  row then !:)

[MackworthRamIsGod]

56 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

thought FFP was being suspended for one season, so that might be extended. Doesn't make clubs more sustainable of course, just let's them drown in higher debt just like the rest of the economy. 

I may be wrong here, apologies if so..

My understanding is FFP or whatever it's called now, is being suspended for year but only for those in a European competition.

So, someone in our shoes or Brighton will still have to adhere to the rules, but someone who reaches the Champions League, let's say Man City, they dont have to adhere to the rules.

I'm sure that itsnt right as it doesnt make a blind bit of sense, but that is my understanding 

[Wolfie20]

16 minutes ago, Theres’s Only Wan Chope said:

Why have we got a charge then? 

Ever heard of guilty and NOT guilty?