Tribunal Update

[Tyler Durden]

1 minute ago, David said:

It wasn’t rhetorical, I was interested to know what questions he should be asked. 
I think you can criticise poor decisions that have been made, if done fairly and not laying all blame on one mans doorstep, but don’t think he deserves to be questioned at all. 

You said that I know why we sold the stadium so I therefore was assuming that you thought it was a rhetorical question as the answer was that obvious but OK we'll move on.

I was merely making the point that all of this gnashing and wailing and wringing of hands about whether we will or won't get a points deduction could all have been eliminated from the stadium not being sold. Or I guess we could have not done this and then copped for a huge points deduction instead so was Hobsons Choice. But it still should not be forgotten how we managed to get ourselves into this parlous position in the first place.

And I know hindsight has 20/20 vision. 

 

[Anag Ram]

You do have to wonder at how well football clubs are run as businesses when every year a few fall foul of regulations. 

Surely like any other financial institution they conduct external audits to ensure they are working within the rules? 

[David]

4 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

I was merely making the point that all of this gnashing and wailing and wringing of hands about whether we will or won't get a points deduction could all have been eliminated from the stadium not being sold. Or I guess we could have not done this and then copped for a huge points deduction instead so was Hobsons Choice. But it still should not be forgotten how we managed to get ourselves into this parlous position in the first place.

And I know hindsight has 20/20 vision. 

Of course it could have been avoided by reducing our spending in previous years, but as I say, he has given his all into this club, saw this opportunity and took it.

I wish we didn’t have to have gone this far, I’m sure this wasn’t in the long term plan for Mel either. 

You could also argue that had the EFL not signed off on this we wouldn’t be in this position either now. 

[Ted McMinn Football Genius]

37 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

But not the period in which they accounted for it in ? 
 

is that not what they’ve been found guilty of ?

im only asking .. genuinely 

That’s how I understand it. 

If the sale had gone ahead in the year in which they tried to apply it resulted SWFC going from a £30m plus loss to a £2m operating profit in the season in question.

This occurred after applying the sale of the ground £60m to the previous financial year which is what I understand they’ve allegedly been charged for. 

[Ted McMinn Football Genius]

2 minutes ago, David said:

Of course it could have been avoided by reducing our spending in previous years, but as I say, he has given his all into this club, saw this opportunity and took it.

I wish we didn’t have to have gone this far, I’m sure this wasn’t in the long term plan for Mel either. 

You could also argue that had the EFL not signed off on this we wouldn’t be in this position either now. 

Very good point, that’s another angle for MM and the legal beagles ??????

[Tamworthram]

1 hour ago, Wolfie20 said:

I hope to God it wasn't Stephen Pearce who signed everything off on behalf of the EFL. Yikes!!!!  ?

I’m sure he would have had to declare a conflict of interest.

[rustylee]

If I was a Sheff Wed fan I would rather have the points deduction this season and start next season with a clean slate in league one.

[Tyler Durden]

1 minute ago, rustylee said:

If I was a Sheff Wed fan I would rather have the points deduction this season and start next season with a clean slate in league one.

Not really there probably will be a slew of clubs who incur points deductions next season due to the financial impact of Covid so it might end up being a relegation battle decided between the teams with points deductions. 

[Mafiabob]

3 hours ago, Steve Buckley’s Dog said:

A quick scan of the SWFC boards has revealed that they are accusing us of stealing the ‘Duck the EFL’ chant off them.

 

It’s ok they’ve stolen our points deduction - swings and roundabouts 

[Wolfie20]

1 hour ago, Tamworthram said:

I’m sure he would have had to declare a conflict of interest.

Said in jest

[Wolfie20]

29 minutes ago, rustylee said:

If I was a Sheff Wed fan I would rather have the points deduction this season and start next season with a clean slate in league one.

Not sure how much damage to their finances dropping out of the Championship would do. 

[LazloW]

Honestly, so what if we get a 12 point deduction next year?

FFP might well have been a fine idea in principle, but its quite clear the way it has been administered doesn't work; clubs are still going out of business and going into administration or generally being in massive debt, so it hasn't worked from a sustainability perspective.  There also remains massive disparity between the finances of different clubs, with the rich getting richer and, without the ability of wealthy investors to help them compete, the gap between teams is increasing. This is not helped by the ludicrous situation with parachute payments - which essentially reward teams for being **** and being mismanaged in the Premier League.  If Mel, in seeking to back his managers, invest in the in the club he loves and try to make us compete with the 'haves', decided to exploit a loophole then so be it. In no other business are you penalised for investing your own money in your own business. Frankly, all the League should be bothered about from one year to the next are whether you are financially secure. If that security is based on the largess of your owners, then so be it (just make sure there is a bond or assets (or something) to make sure debts are covered).

Anyway, we wouldn't be the first club to fall foul of the rules; we won't be the last. If we're found guilty, take the deduction, win the first four games (which we would anyway, obvs) and take it from there.  I for one won't give a flying potato about it to be honest.  The club will still be there, I'll still be going on a Saturday/Sunday/Tuesday/Wednesday/Friday (COVID permitting) and I don't think its worth getting morally indignant about (mainly because its only football - lets not get too precious - its just a bit of fun).

If we do get off, it will also be hilarious watching the blubbing from other clubs too.

 

[Mr. P]

With all the rumours of points deductions for teams, looks like you could get into the playoffs on -1 points! 

[Comrade 86]

37 page thread and I've still to read a post that remotely convinces me that we've acted outside the letter of the FFP regulations and directives. Seems to me that the EFL over the last year or two have been made to look a little silly, which they very much are and have decided to put on a show of strength to remind the lowly football clubs they are meant to serve, exactly who is in charge. This has taken the shape of endless litigation, forcing clubs into administration and messing with clubs' transfer windows.  In this regard they've been ably aided and abetted by clubs doing their best to emulate chimps slinging poo at each other. I cite Ickle Stevie Gibson and the village idiot that is Paul Conway, as prime examples. 

Oh well, watching Boro struggling to poohouse themselves out of a relegation battle provided some delightful schadenfreude, so not all bad.

 

 

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

2 hours ago, LazloW said:

Honestly, so what if we get a 12 point deduction next year?

FFP might well have been a fine idea in principle, but its quite clear the way it has been administered doesn't work; clubs are still going out of business and going into administration or generally being in massive debt, so it hasn't worked from a sustainability perspective.  There also remains massive disparity between the finances of different clubs, with the rich getting richer and, without the ability of wealthy investors to help them compete, the gap between teams is increasing. This is not helped by the ludicrous situation with parachute payments - which essentially reward teams for being **** and being mismanaged in the Premier League.  If Mel, in seeking to back his managers, invest in the in the club he loves and try to make us compete with the 'haves', decided to exploit a loophole then so be it. In no other business are you penalised for investing your own money in your own business. Frankly, all the League should be bothered about from one year to the next are whether you are financially secure. If that security is based on the largess of your owners, then so be it (just make sure there is a bond or assets (or something) to make sure debts are covered).

Anyway, we wouldn't be the first club to fall foul of the rules; we won't be the last. If we're found guilty, take the deduction, win the first four games (which we would anyway, obvs) and take it from there.  I for one won't give a flying potato about it to be honest.  The club will still be there, I'll still be going on a Saturday/Sunday/Tuesday/Wednesday/Friday (COVID permitting) and I don't think its worth getting morally indignant about (mainly because its only football - lets not get too precious - its just a bit of fun).

If we do get off, it will also be hilarious watching the blubbing from other clubs too.

 

I think a points deduction is worrying and could mean a year battling relegation or even getting relegated, imagine going down and being stuck there? This all has the feeling that our club has messed up something badly to incur this charge. 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

5 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

Regardless of the outcome of the hearing all of this discussion detracts from the root cause of this which is the financial mismanagement at the club which unfortunately resides at Mel Morris' door, we were seeking innovative and imaginative ways to circumnavigate the FFP rules to avoid a points deduction.

Which doesn't seem a caste irony certainty after all of the financial chicanery.

No we weren't. Mel was trying to fund a competitive  club. We all rave and sometimes demand success as fans. Mel can't win. Fund the club within its means and be mid table every season or challenge for promotion agsinst the grossly unfsir parachute payment clubs. I find your comments offensive  to a guy who has poured millions into our club. With fans like you I would walk away if I were Mel. 

[Tyler Durden]

32 minutes ago, The Orange Pimpernel said:

No we weren't. Mel was trying to fund a competitive  club. We all rave and sometimes demand success as fans. Mel can't win. Fund the club within its means and be mid table every season or challenge for promotion agsinst the grossly unfsir parachute payment clubs. I find your comments offensive  to a guy who has poured millions into our club. With fans like you I would walk away if I were Mel. 

How can you say you find my comments offensive to someone else? Totally nonsensical statement. 

I've posted a fact that everyone is getting all hung up about whether we are going to get a points deduction or not but no one is commenting on the root cause behind why we are in this position, the potential points deduction is the secondary not the primary cause in this.

If that's not acceptable to comment on then I was under the impression this was a forum and you tell me what is OK to debate or not. 

If you think that also I am not entitled to be concerned about how the club got into this position then again please tell me, I didn't realise you were the online censor on this forum.

I won't post anything more as clearly if your viewpoint doesn't fit in with your perspective then that's a cardinal hanging offence. 

 

[Reggie Greenwood]

55 minutes ago, Theres’s Only Wan Chope said:

I think a points deduction is worrying and could mean a year battling relegation or even getting relegated, imagine going down and being stuck there? This all has the feeling that our club has messed up something badly to incur this charge. 

Not at all would be very surprised if DCFC get any punishment at all . 

[Abu Derby]

I think we’ll be given +9 points for having being mucked about by that Gibbo bloke. He’s a just a mardy nosey Parker. Keep your beak out Gibbo. 

[Ambitious]

After reading more into the Wednesday case, I think it's clear to see that the sale of the stadium isn't the issue. They stated in their statement that it shouldn't have been included in that year's accounts - not that it shouldn't have been included. 

I would assume, based one what we've been told, we were far more pragmatic when doing the 'deal' hence this shouldn't be a big red flag. I must admit that it definitely feels like it though!