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Tribunal Update


Shipley Ram

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11 minutes ago, StarterForTen said:

Oh, this could get very messy! The play-offs start on July 25th/26th, so less than two weeks after this hearing is reported to start.

So if Derby are found guilty and given a points deduction and it is that deduction that stops the team finishing in the top six then the Club are bound to appeal. How do you hold a hearing, give a judgement, allow time to review, appeal the result, hold an appeal and give an appeal ruling in less than a fortnight?

If the play-offs went on without Derby, who other than the points penalty would have been part of them, then surely the club would seek an injunction?

Or, if the playoffs continue without them and Derby later win the appeal, the damages claim to the EFL will literally bankrupt the league. They haven't got a pot to wee in as it is.

Something like £80m in the bank iirc. 

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1 hour ago, richinspain said:

In the "Wigan goes into administration" thread @G STAR RAM said that it is the other way around. If you finish outside the relegation zone then the points deduction is the same season, thus possibly pushing you into it. If however you are in the relegation zone then the deduction is passed over to the following season. That seems to make more sense to me. Where is the punishment if you get relegated naturally and they take more points off you?

Oooops. That's more like it 

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3 minutes ago, sage said:

So if we lose tomorrow, cut a deal on Monday, no fine and a 12 point deduction this season. 

I hope not:-

1 - I have a bet on Derby finishing in the top half of the division

2 - It would be an admission of guilt when we have done nothing wrong 

3 - The EFL need their incompetent highlighting more and more, sick of them making bad decision after bad decision and them just been swept under the carpet

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2 minutes ago, B4ev6is said:

Thats why I said a while before lock down we need protest down and show them up.

Like cocu said if you mess with one of us you mess with all of us.

Flock lives matter?

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30 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I hope not:-

1 - I have a bet on Derby finishing in the top half of the division

2 - It would be an admission of guilt when we have done nothing wrong 

3 - The EFL need their incompetent highlighting more and more, sick of them making bad decision after bad decision and them just been swept under the carpet

OK

6 Point deduction, they pay our legal fees and Rick Parry has to go to Ilkeston Fair and tell everyone he is from Heanor.  

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11 minutes ago, sage said:

OK

6 Point deduction, they pay our legal fees and Rick Parry has to go to Ilkeston Fair and tell everyone he is from Heanor.  

In all seriousness though I think it would be a mistake to back down.

I dont see the EFL doing a deal and it would most like see us placed under some sort of embargo. At least wait until we have a new keeper.

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1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

In all seriousness though I think it would be a mistake to back down.

I dont see the EFL doing a deal and it would most like see us placed under some sort of embargo. At least wait until we have a new keeper.

When you say keeper, you mean book keeper yeah?

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40 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I hope not:-

1 - I have a bet on Derby finishing in the top half of the division

2 - It would be an admission of guilt when we have done nothing wrong 

3 - The EFL need their incompetent highlighting more and more, sick of them making bad decision after bad decision and them just been swept under the carpet

I’m with @sage on this. As soon as the playoffs are out of the equation, I’d be tempted to accept the charge. I think it’ll have a bigger impact then letting things play out naturally - whether the result is in favour or against us.

It’s Mel sticking two fingers up at Parry/EFL and Mel beating them once again.

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6 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

In all seriousness though I think it would be a mistake to back down.

I dont see the EFL doing a deal and it would most like see us placed under some sort of embargo. At least wait until we have a new keeper.

Clubs are usually given an embargo when they need to get back within P&S limits. My understanding is that we’re now safely within those limits even if we have to make adjustments for the stadium and amortisation method.

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22 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Clubs are usually given an embargo when they need to get back within P&S limits. My understanding is that we’re now safely within those limits even if we have to make adjustments for the stadium and amortisation method.

What is that understanding based on?

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51 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

In all seriousness though I think it would be a mistake to back down.

I dont see the EFL doing a deal and it would most like see us placed under some sort of embargo. At least wait until we have a new keeper.

I agree, the club need to keep fighting their position. Legally and reputational wise, had we not been given guidance from the EFL that these transactions and methods didn't breach the rules, we would have acted differently to comply. Even if disciplined and deducted points, we counter claim we were damaged by the reliance on stated position of the EFL at that time.  "plea bargaining" so that we don't go up/don't go down and start next season has a pragmatic appeal, but it will decisively and irrecoverably cement the reputation we broke the rules and were caught and punished (and still not enough in the minds of Steve Gibson). It'd also open the way for the EFL deciding to change it's mind after the fact in other areas.

Of course....I say that having not personally reviewed the submissions (not that'd I'd understand the intricacies if I did) - however it plays out, I do hope the explanations are  fully reported from both angles.

Of course, the danger from the EFLs point of view is they've been played for fools by far more savvie financial operators and if they fold on these they will lose even more credibility as a regulator than they had before.

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18 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

What is that understanding based on?

We’re entering the 3 year period ending 2021 (18/19, 19/20, 20/21 seasons).

We were charged for failing the period ending in 2018. If they felt the result of that would impact the period ending in 2019 we would have been charged for that too. 2020 is ruled out as a result as losses are almost certainly significantly lower than the previous 2 years (excluding profit on the stadium sale). 

Recalculating the amortisation over the 3 year period to 2021 makes a minimal difference.

The profit in the stadium no longer applies to the period ending in 2021. 

An increase in sponsorship, a decrease in wage bill, and hopefully a Covid-19 loss of earning allowance will see that we’re just inside the limits. 

Figures will continue to improve year on year from here on. 

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17 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

We’re entering the 3 year period ending 2021 (18/19, 19/20, 20/21 seasons).

We were charged for failing the period ending in 2018. If they felt the result of that would impact the period ending in 2019 we would have been charged for that too. 2020 is ruled out as a result as losses are almost certainly significantly lower than the previous 2 years (excluding profit on the stadium sale). 

Recalculating the amortisation over the 3 year period to 2021 makes a minimal difference.

The profit in the stadium no longer applies to the period ending in 2021. 

An increase in sponsorship, a decrease in wage bill, and hopefully a Covid-19 loss of earning allowance will see that we’re just inside the limits. 

Figures will continue to improve year on year from here on. 

Yes fair point that we would have already been charged with a breach for 18/19 as these figures would have been submitted already, something that I had overlooked.

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