Philip Cocu

[Animal is a Ram]

What we saw early on in the season is, in the main, a result of such a botched pre-season. That preparedness affects everything, especially tactics and transfers.

A management team and playing staff not knowing, or up to speed with, how each other tick. From there on out, you're playing catch up with teams who have known their roles from the get go, or from last season.

Cocu's arrivals then consisted of Bielik; 4 loans, of which 1 was inspired (Clarke), 1 meh (Hamer), and 2 panic signs, who did not fit the system (Dowell and Paterson); and Shinnie, who was signed by Lampard.

After a good start at Huddersfield, we were then to be trapped in a series of events on and off the pitch. Every game would have a mistake punished. Injuries taking out key players in form. Drink-drive-gate. Bielik out for the season.

Yet Cocu has never let any of it really get to him - publicly anyway. He's never blamed the poor start to the season to any of these factors. Just carried on going. Handled it all with calmness, style and grace. He's had to learn the hard way. Worse than the hard way. I would not have blamed him for taking a second look at this basket case season and walking away.

Rooney has been a masterstroke. I was worried it wouldn't be enough. But it's brought the rest of the team up 10%, and sometimes, that's all you need.

I also think we've managed the restart really well too. I know that's obvious when we stand as only 1 of 4 teams to have won every game, but it's the manner of the victories, the management of the games, and the players.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

16 hours ago, BondJovi said:

I still maintain his Forest cup selection was brilliant. Not so much for many fans, but for the players. Give the youngsters a taste of first team football, see what they can do but also make it clear if they are good enough and ready they will be picked. Must have been a huge boost for a lot of those players, the players who are our future.

For someone like Sibley it sure didn't do any harm.

I understand why that selection annoyed so many, but we are clearly seeing the rewards of a manager who thinks long term.

He said the other day that he doesn’t regret it one bit.

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, cannable said:

They scored a couple of set-pieces and a screamer

We controlled the middle third but they were better in the final two, which suggested that we were a few tweaks away (subsequently that’s proven to be the case) whereas the general consensus was that it was horrific  

And the general consensus was correct in my opinion.

We were going through games without shots on target (a quick check shows it was 2 against Charlton).

You dont win games without shots on target, that isnt tweaks, that is fundamental to the game.

That game wasnt a one off, on the whole before Xmas we were woeful away from home.

As an aside, I noticed a stat last night that showed we have the most goals from outside of the area in all English leagues, which even now may show that we are not creating enough chances inside the area. Although obviously it does not matter where goals are scored from.

[BondJovi]

3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

And the general consensus was correct in my opinion.

We were going through games without shots on target (a quick check shows it was 2 against Charlton).

You dont win games without shots on target, that isnt tweaks, that is fundamental to the game.

That game wasnt a one off, on the whole before Xmas we were woeful away from home.

As an aside, I noticed a stat last night that showed we have the most goals from outside of the area in all English leagues, which even now may show that we are not creating enough chances inside the area. Although obviously it does not matter where goals are scored from.

I am pretty sure we still create more chances than we did last season on the whole. 

[DcfcMatt]

Ive always had the feeling that he's here for the long haul. We've tried short term fixes and it's got us nowhere, stability is what we need. He's here to build something.

This is taken from an article in Holland:

 

“We started with a new selection last summer, of course the play-offs are always the ambition, but I have signed for four years for a reason. Participating in the top six places is already positive for this first year.”

 

❤?(u)

 

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bizarre-incidents--phillip-cocu-4289828

[samtheram83]

8 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Tongue in cheek?
Bogle, Lowe, Bird, Knight and Sibley all started against Preston. Not quite 50% but 45.5% it's pretty close. Granted it was only one game, but i'm sure we'll see it a couple more times over the next few games and most certainly throughout next season and beyond. Especially if the likes of Whittaker, JBrown, Archie, etc can push on and get involved.

Yes, very tongue in cheek!

[Rev]

https://www.ad.nl/buitenlands-voetbal/cocu-over-opmars-Derby-na-ellende-steekpartij-verkeersongeluk-en-17de-met-kerst~adc62183b/?referrer=https%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FeAWw9bmt9A%3Famp%3D1&referrer=https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bizarre-incidents--phillip-cocu-4289828

The original Dutch interview, somehow still makes more sense than the Derby Telegraph.

[RoyMac5]

56 minutes ago, reverendo de duivel said:

https://www.ad.nl/buitenlands-voetbal/cocu-over-opmars-Derby-na-ellende-steekpartij-verkeersongeluk-en-17de-met-kerst~adc62183b/?

Quote

"Some things you don't learn on the course," trainers sometimes say. Cocu, laughing: "Well I can confirm that. A season like this, with its bizarre events and how you deal with it, you only learn that in practice."

 

[brady1993]

14 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Before Xmas there was no sign of a plan or identity being created, and there were no youngsters being blooded.

Some of the away performances were absolutely horrific.

I never went as far as joining the Cocu out brigade but I was becoming highly critical and, given the money I was wasting to watch these inept displays, I'd say it was justified.

The Bielik sending off against Charlton was a massive turning point for us but lets be under no illusions, a lot of our change in fortunes is down to the arrival of Rooney.

Don't feel like this is accurate on either point. 

On the young players; Knight was already being used as a rotation option, Buchanan had game time, Lowe was getting game time and he'd handed out a bunch of first caps.

On the plan; thought it was pretty clear what the plan was and the identity we were working towards very early on. And you can point to games where it was executed well (Preston at home for example.  The issue with that was the first half of the season was really disrupted not only with off the field issues but we went through a spell of picking injuries to key players regularly (we played without a recognised right back for what 7 games?). Which makes getting any semblance of cohesion or momentum very difficult.

The efficacy of said plan or whether he should have garnered a better average performance is a different question. Personally I come down on the side that he was dealt a really bad hand and did a decent job of keeping the ship vaguely steady and getting us towards a point we could build from. 

[Ghost of Clough]

I don’t think Rowett gets the appreciation he deserves. If he didn’t eff off to Stoke (for £2m!!! ??) we wouldn’t have got Lampard. If we didn’t get Lampard, we wouldn’t have got Cocu or Rooney. 
Everyone should be applauding Rowett for his contribution ?

[G STAR RAM]

9 hours ago, brady1993 said:

Don't feel like this is accurate on either point. 

On the young players; Knight was already being used as a rotation option, Buchanan had game time, Lowe was getting game time and he'd handed out a bunch of first caps.

On the plan; thought it was pretty clear what the plan was and the identity we were working towards very early on. And you can point to games where it was executed well (Preston at home for example.  The issue with that was the first half of the season was really disrupted not only with off the field issues but we went through a spell of picking injuries to key players regularly (we played without a recognised right back for what 7 games?). Which makes getting any semblance of cohesion or momentum very difficult.

The efficacy of said plan or whether he should have garnered a better average performance is a different question. Personally I come down on the side that he was dealt a really bad hand and did a decent job of keeping the ship vaguely steady and getting us towards a point we could build from. 

Not denying he has been dealt a bad hand.

Anyone that says that the away matches pre Christmas were not awful and lacked and clear plan though was watching something completely different to me.

[cannable]

19 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

And the general consensus was correct in my opinion.

We were going through games without shots on target (a quick check shows it was 2 against Charlton).

You dont win games without shots on target, that isnt tweaks, that is fundamental to the game.

That game wasnt a one off, on the whole before Xmas we were woeful away from home.

As an aside, I noticed a stat last night that showed we have the most goals from outside of the area in all English leagues, which even now may show that we are not creating enough chances inside the area. Although obviously it does not matter where goals are scored from.

I don’t know what you want me to say 

My thoughts at the time were that we weren’t as atrocious at Charlton as people thought, we needed to sort out defensive set-pieces and learn how to break down a side 

I believe I said it reminded me of Clough’s Derby team at the end of his tenure and needed a tweak 

We are now 7th having picked up this most points in the league since the 2nd of January 

Unless you are saying that I’m still wrong and it’s just a coincidence 

[Rammy03]

21 hours ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

He said the other day that he doesn’t regret it one bit.

Probably because he doesn't give a poo about the carabao cup. But for the fans who went I have to say it was a disgrace. We gave ourselves absolutely no chance of winning that game.

[Dimmu]

1 hour ago, Rammy03 said:

Probably because he doesn't give a poo about the carabao cup. But for the fans who went I have to say it was a disgrace. We gave ourselves absolutely no chance of winning that game.

And that's why fans are not managers. They take short term victories over long term success.

[Rampage]

56 minutes ago, Dimmu said:

And that's why fans are not managers. They take short term victories over long term success.

I would accept a short term victory every game.

[Rampage]

1 hour ago, Rammy03 said:

Probably because he doesn't give a poo about the carabao cup. But for the fans who went I have to say it was a disgrace. We gave ourselves absolutely no chance of winning that game.

But we had 5 young players in the team and 2 more on the Bench.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

1 hour ago, Rammy03 said:

Probably because he doesn't give a poo about the carabao cup. But for the fans who went I have to say it was a disgrace. We gave ourselves absolutely no chance of winning that game.

I went. I was excited to see the young players tested.

[Van der MoodHoover]

25 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

I went. I was excited to see the young players tested.

steady.......?

[G STAR RAM]

6 hours ago, cannable said:

I don’t know what you want me to say 

My thoughts at the time were that we weren’t as atrocious at Charlton as people thought, we needed to sort out defensive set-pieces and learn how to break down a side 

I believe I said it reminded me of Clough’s Derby team at the end of his tenure and needed a tweak 

We are now 7th having picked up this most points in the league since the 2nd of January 

Unless you are saying that I’m still wrong and it’s just a coincidence 

Dont want you to say anything.

It's just a difference if opinions.

I'm not sure comparing our current performances to pre Christmas has any relevance, completely different team and Rooney has clearly made a massive difference.

[RadioactiveWaste]

Whilst I am a fan boy of Cocu, I think he didn't get it right for this one.

I think they'd been drilled that what forest do is pounce on a mistake and break on teams, so always be 100% sure of your passes and no risky balls. So we didn't show the bravery or invention needed to open them up.