Philip Cocu

[cannable]

15 hours ago, Jayram said:

The criticism levelled at him and the players during the first half of the season was justified - the performances at Brentford, Reading etc were abysmal and putting out a junior team for the Forest cup game was inexplicable. However, the arrival of Rooney has galvanised the club and its clear that the players now ‘get’ the way Cocu wants them to play. Considering the off the pitch chaos at the club this season I think he has done a remarkable job and regardless of what happens this season I look forward to seeing us progress next season.

We were mint at Reading and I still have no idea how we lost 3-0, Charlton too

[Millenniumram]

Without wishing to detract from the good feeling around Cocu, we do have to be careful not to overhype everything because of this excellent run. Cocu is doing an outstanding job so far, but he hasn’t even completed a season yet. I know it’s not the intention of the OP, but I do think any claims that Cocu is the best manager we’ve had this century does somewhat disregard the achievements of the likes of McClaren when he came in both times, and even Clough/Rowett steadying the ship when we looked a mess. Of course he may well eclipse all those mentioned by the time his spell at the club comes to an end, and I hope he does, but he hasn’t achieved anything just yet.

[Rammy03]

14 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Of course he may well eclipse all those mentioned by the time his spell at the club comes to an end, and I hope he does, but he hasn’t achieved anything just yet.

I agree, love what he's doing with the team but let's just keep a lid on it. The job isn't finished yet.

[Rampage]

15 minutes ago, Rammy03 said:

I agree, love what he's doing with the team but let's just keep a lid on it. The job isn't finished yet.

He will be thrilled if we get the Brian Clough Trophy back on Saturday.

[Comrade 86]

40 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Of course he may well eclipse all those mentioned by the time his spell at the club comes to an end, and I hope he does, but he hasn’t achieved anything just yet.

If you call reversing the downward spiral, mitigating the loss of 5 key players, architecting a playing style that is great to watch and hard to play against, unifying the club, developing the younger talent into genuine premiership quality prospects, improving the technique of most of the older players and putting a smile back on the face of some weary fans, 'not achieving anything' then I'm afraid you probably need to re-calibrate your expectations meter.

While it's fair and true to say 'he's won nothing yet', you really do have to be pretty one-eyed to suggest he's 'achieved nothing' ?

[Millenniumram]

31 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

If you call reversing the downward spiral, mitigating the loss of 5 key players, architecting a playing style that is great to watch and hard to play against, unifying the club, developing the younger talent into genuine premiership quality prospects, improving the technique of most of the older players and putting a smile back on the face of some weary fans, 'not achieving anything' then I'm afraid you probably need to re-calibrate your expectations meter.

While it's fair and true to say 'he's won nothing yet', you really do have to be pretty one-eyed to suggest he's 'achieved nothing' ?

I don’t think you’re getting the point of what I’m saying. He’s done an absolutely fantastic job as a manager up until this point, you’d be an idiot to suggest otherwise. The point is he hasn’t seen the job through yet, so it’s a bit unfair to compare him to previous managers who have done just yet. Also the main point I was really trying to make but probably neglected to mention clearly was that I don’t want peoples expectations jumping up because of the hype calling Cocu the best manager since Jim Smith. We have to remember he’s not a miracle worker and that even a top half finish is fantastic this season given how things have gone. What we don’t want is fans getting delusional about our chances and calling for sackings if we don’t make the top 6. 

[Ghost of Clough]

7 hours ago, cannable said:

We were mint at Reading and I still have no idea how we lost 3-0, Charlton too

Malone’s red in the first minute didn’t help. Penalty given away as well wasn’t it?

[G STAR RAM]

8 hours ago, Crazy said:

 

 

I'm sorry, I disagree. The performances at the start of the season might have been poor, but I don't think the criticism was justified. Perhaps he wasn't focusing on immediate results, but building a long-term project. And even if the results hadn't come good during the second half of the season, if there were signs of progress, young players being developed, the building of a new system, then criticism would still not be justified. He came in on a 4-year project, and patience is what he deserves. 

Whatever happens over the next month, if we get off to a poor start next season, I'm sure there will be some calling for him to go. I won't be one of them. 

Before Xmas there was no sign of a plan or identity being created, and there were no youngsters being blooded.

Some of the away performances were absolutely horrific.

I never went as far as joining the Cocu out brigade but I was becoming highly critical and, given the money I was wasting to watch these inept displays, I'd say it was justified.

The Bielik sending off against Charlton was a massive turning point for us but lets be under no illusions, a lot of our change in fortunes is down to the arrival of Rooney.

[G STAR RAM]

7 hours ago, cannable said:

We were mint at Reading and I still have no idea how we lost 3-0, Charlton too

Didnt see the Charlton game as it was my lads birthday but by all accounts we played well but against Charlton we were awful.

[Van der MoodHoover]

24 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Malone’s red in the first minute didn’t help. Penalty given away as well wasn’t it?

2 pens, red card, we hit woodwork twice and cocu basically said in his post match interview that they were a bunch of cheating thugs. 

That said, it was something like our 6th or 7th straight away loss without scoring so we must have been a bit rubbish ?

[richinspain]

9 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Was never in doubt for me as our grumpy young chum @Andiciswill confirm. At one point, I felt like his therapist ? In all seriousness, it always seemed clear to me what he was trying to do. The only question in my mind was whether the players would buy into it as, momentarily, I had doubts on that score. Once they did, the improvement was clear to see and now we see a clear and defined style shaped very much in the manager's own image. At times, it's absolutely joyous to behold.

In the midst of the Cocu love-in and at risk of being repetitive, let's not forget Chris and Twan. They are the guys doing the bulk of the one-on-one training that is yielding such startling progress, likewise the academy coaches who must take great delight in working for a manager whose ethos and philosophy I would venture, has always been close to their own. 

Despite the litany of woe that was our early season, the club now seems to be totally unified, on and off the pitch and I love the space we're in right now. Football can be so uplifting sometimes and after a horrible few months right across the globe, perhaps there really are much brighter times ahead. For this I feel we owe a debt of gratitude to Mel Morris, who has been very quiet of recent months, but is no doubt sat watchhing our games with a massive poo-eating grin on his face. It's nothing less than he deserves and I couldn't be happier for him.

COYR

I, and I'm 100% certain Mel, would prefer us to go up this season. It would be typical of Mel's luck with everything DCFC however that the year it finally all comes right on the pitch that he can't be there to lap up the fan's praise for everything he has done for the club.

[IlsonDerby]

10 hours ago, Andicis said:

Could have told the thousands of fans before they wasted time and money traveling to the city ground to get mocked by Forest fans?

He doesn’t owe the fans anything other than doing what he feels to be in the best interest of the club for the short, medium and long term. 

[IlsonDerby]

The loss of Moun, Wilson, Tomori. 
The late arrival to preseason. 
The loss of an £11m signing after he’d only managed about 4 games. 
Marriott never fit. 
The Keogh incident compounded by the fact it hampered how Cocu wanted to play by losing our ball playing CB. 
The financial fair play saga. 
Covid19. 
Our impressive replacement for Keogh being stabbed. 
 

He has dealt with all of this whilst spending his time working out who is intelligent enough to take on his instructions and bringing in academy players. FIVE academy products started on Weds with the teams average age at 24. That’s bloody brilliant and shows that Mel might not be crazy when he says he wants 50% of the team from the academy. Holmes, Waghorn and Wisdom the only players who cost any money in transfer fees on the pitch too. 

[samtheram83]

24 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

The loss of Moun, Wilson, Tomori. 
The late arrival to preseason. 
The loss of an £11m signing after he’d only managed about 4 games. 
Marriott never fit. 
The Keogh incident compounded by the fact it hampered how Cocu wanted to play by losing our ball playing CB. 
The financial fair play saga. 
Covid19. 
Our impressive replacement for Keogh being stabbed. 
 

He has dealt with all of this whilst spending his time working out who is intelligent enough to take on his instructions and bringing in academy players. FIVE academy products started on Weds with the teams average age at 24. That’s bloody brilliant and shows that Mel might not be crazy when he says he wants 50% of the team from the academy. Holmes, Waghorn and Wisdom the only players who cost any money in transfer fees on the pitch too. 

I think Mel is pretty crazy if he thinks we can get 50% of 11 players from the academy and maybe not the smart business man we all think he is ?

[King Kevin]

I have to say he didn't convince me ,he does now.

[Ghost of Clough]

34 minutes ago, samtheram83 said:

I think Mel is pretty crazy if he thinks we can get 50% of 11 players from the academy and maybe not the smart business man we all think he is ?

Tongue in cheek?
Bogle, Lowe, Bird, Knight and Sibley all started against Preston. Not quite 50% but 45.5% it's pretty close. Granted it was only one game, but i'm sure we'll see it a couple more times over the next few games and most certainly throughout next season and beyond. Especially if the likes of Whittaker, JBrown, Archie, etc can push on and get involved.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

6 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Tongue in cheek?
Bogle, Lowe, Bird, Knight and Sibley all started against Preston. Not quite 50% but 45.5% it's pretty close. Granted it was only one game, but i'm sure we'll see it a couple more times over the next few games and most certainly throughout next season and beyond. Especially if the likes of Whittaker, JBrown, Archie, etc can push on and get involved.

I think the point is you cant include five & a half players.

[Ghost of Clough]

15 minutes ago, The Orange Pimpernel said:

I think the point is you cant include five & a half players.

Ahhh... that would makes sense.

I always took that as a slight misquote and it was meant as 50% of the squad which again isn't unfeasible.

[Birdyabroad]

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Before Xmas there was no sign of a plan or identity being created, and there were no youngsters being blooded.

Some of the away performances were absolutely horrific.

I never went as far as joining the Cocu out brigade but I was becoming highly critical and, given the money I was wasting to watch these inept displays, I'd say it was justified.

The Bielik sending off against Charlton was a massive turning point for us but lets be under no illusions, a lot of our change in fortunes is down to the arrival of Rooney.

I’m in total agreement here.

I’ve always been a fan of Cocu because of how much I’ve enjoyed watching the great Dutch and Barcelona teams of yesteryear.

However, I’m not as convinced that there has been some grand master plan from the off. Some of the team selections before Xmas looked like he was throwing darts at names pinned to a dartboard.

I think Rooney’s arrival on the pitch has been the single most important factor that I’ve ever seen a player bring to a team (Derby or otherwise).

He has spread an assurance through the team and, more importantly, a work ethic.

No player has the right to ‘dial in’ a performance when England’s leading goal scorer is busting a gut in the middle of the park.

Everyone in here I am sure has also seen the way he’s always talking to the young lads through games, I noticed him deep in conversation with Jason Knight just before the 2nd half Kick-off against Preston.

So, as much as I really want Cocu to do well and I agree that his training methods must be paying off, I think Rooney has been the most important factor in the turnaround.

A nice middle ground might be to say that Rooney’s impact has bought Cocu the time and space to start imposing his ideas and expectations onto the team.

[cannable]

3 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Didnt see the Charlton game as it was my lads birthday but by all accounts we played well but against Charlton we were awful.

They scored a couple of set-pieces and a screamer

We controlled the middle third but they were better in the final two, which suggested that we were a few tweaks away (subsequently that’s proven to be the case) whereas the general consensus was that it was horrific