Lampard vs. Cocu

[MackworthRamIsGod]

9 minutes ago, David said:

I’m one of the lucky ones, I like them both and it’s great to see things are working out for Frank at Chelsea. 

I feared for him a bit, but with quality additions they should be able to push on further next year.

Equally confident that we will also push on next year, when you look at our form since Rooney’s arrival, imagine a full season...

We just need to try and keep hold of Bird and Sibley and I agree, next year could be fun.

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

Like both managers. Lampard helped us achieve playoffs, Leeds victory etc and Wembley. Brought in good loanees (don't know how responsible he was for choosing them). Cocu has had to deal with a lot and we have become very competitive at the right time.

[ram1964]

Entirely different characters with different managerial traits.Lamps high profile and ability to attract players will stand him in good stead,obviously has the ability to gee up players and motivate them . Cocu  more chilled ,calculated approach ,strategically more atusive and probably better equipped to develop and build a team long term than lamps.Honestly think we have now got the best suited guy for the job in my opinion the best manager in the championship and probably will prove to be a top manager .just hope his future success is with us.

[Will Hughes Hair]

Winning is a culture.

Or a mentality.  Frank started us off on a course.  Rooney is only here because of it.  Our Academy players saw a path because of it.  Mel's eyes were opened.  Phillip was the perfect choice to realise the opportunities and build on the progress that was made last season.

I liked Frank he was a gentleman and a winner.  I like Phillip more, he is our gentleman and our winner.

[Mostyn6]

On 01/07/2020 at 21:30, Mostyn6 said:

I'm not having the quality of Lampard's time here disrespected off the back of his disappointing behaviour upon leaving.

Clearly Cocu is a very studious and sensible manager, however Lampard had some divine inspiration, and Leeds away is something that comes around every 20 years, and I doubt very much that a Cocu-led Derby could find that tempo, intensity and inspiration.

Cocu is effective, in the same way Clement was, and whilst we are on a good run, it remains to be seen how we fare against the teams above us in the coming weeks.

Also, whilst we had 3 young loanees last season, they weren't always effective. Nowhere near as effective as having Rooney has been.

As i suggested, Derby would struggle to find tempo, intensity and inspiration. 
 

shame. 

[RamNut]

I really liked Frank. But in the final week of the season, I’m not sure that he was totally focussed on securing promotion. Leeds away was his triumph, but within a week it seemed as if his mind was drifting towards events in west London. If we’d gone up it might have been harder for him to leave. And when he did leave, as one poster remarked, it was “with barely a backwards glance”. That phrase seems painfully accurate. 

Cocu was an imaginative appointment. The alternatives were Gary monk etc. he is reserved and calm. He is clearly committed to the aim of promoting the youngsters, and he has dealt with all the off the field stuff. But I can’t quite fathom him out. Can he inspire the team? Does he have a clear vision? Will we ever emerge from transition? The tribunal judgement, the disruption to the season, and financial restrictions will continue to throw obstacles in his way. No one is calling for change. we are still waiting to see what he can do. 

[Ambitious]

57 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

As i suggested, Derby would struggle to find tempo, intensity and inspiration. 
 

shame. 

The Leeds game was partly lightening in a bottle. How many games did we have with very few shots on target and people boo’ing the passive football under Lampard? I know there was a few which resulted into some ironic cheers when we had a shot. 

The football between the two Derby sides aren’t too dissimilar, which is what Morris wanted, but Lampard had a few aces up the sleeve whereas we really haven’t had that privilege this season. We’ve developed some of the younger lads with a higher ceiling to have more of an impact this season than last, but truth be told this has been a slow burner. 

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, Mostyn6 said:

As i suggested, Derby would struggle to find tempo, intensity and inspiration. 
 

shame. 

Think a lot got carried away on the crest of a wave.

I think Millwall was the highlight of post lockdown matches and we gradually got worse and more defensive.

Although the run in was hard and I predicted us falling just short, the last 4 performances have been, quite frankly, really poor.

[MackworthRamIsGod]

42 minutes ago, RamNut said:

I really liked Frank. But in the final week of the season, I’m not sure that he was totally focussed on securing promotion. Leeds away was his triumph, but within a week it seemed as if his mind was drifting towards events in west London. If we’d gone up it might have been harder for him to leave. And when he did leave, as one poster remarked, it was “with barely a backwards glance”. That phrase seems painfully accurate. 

Cocu was an imaginative appointment. The alternatives were Gary monk etc. he is reserved and calm. He is clearly committed to the aim of promoting the youngsters, and he has dealt with all the off the field stuff. But I can’t quite fathom him out. Can he inspire the team? Does he have a clear vision? Will we ever emerge from transition? The tribunal judgement, the disruption to the season, and financial restrictions will continue to throw obstacles in his way. No one is calling for change. we are still waiting to see what he can do. 

Exactly this for me.

I have had girlfriends under similar circumstances to Frank Lampard, they tell you everything you want to hear, smile and make you feel good, but as soon as 6 pack Pete comes along they are gone quicker than a Derby County manager.

The Wembley game just seemed an inconvenience for Frank, similar to the Fulham game for Rowett. 

I too believe that had we got promoted it would have made things more difficult for Frank to leave, or more expensive for Chelsea and Frank knew this.

[Jimbo Ram]

Cocu was dealt a much harder hand to play and has done quite well. Think Lampards team was more enjoyable to watch and had more of a goal threat with Mount and Wilson. Be interesting to see how we do next season after a less rushed pre season and maybe a couple of Cocus signings ?

[Abu Dhabi Ram]

Probably not a popular view, but I still think that Frank slightly underachieved with us (It was a really enjoyable season though) given the squad at his disposal. The quality of Mount, Wilson and Tomori, we also had Keogh, Bradley Johnson, Bryson etc, lots of experience and talent that I think should have gained promotion. He seemed to be able to fire them up for some games, but not others. We were fantastic against Leeds, but flat versus Villa in the final. 
 

Cocu’s season is almost impossible compare, it’s also quite difficult to judge how good a job he has done given the crazy circumstances surrounding this season. The football has shown patches of brilliance, but longer periods of not quite clicking and looking a work in progress. The team seems like it still has the shackles on and Cocu is hopefully keeping this in place until the right balance is found within the team. 

Next season we will see what Cocu is all about, I think there will be changes, maybe some surprises. The calm, consistent leadership displayed this season has been exactly what the club and fans have needed. Next season we should finally start a season with the same manager, something we have needed for a while. 

[brady1993]

1 hour ago, RamNut said:

I really liked Frank. But in the final week of the season, I’m not sure that he was totally focussed on securing promotion. Leeds away was his triumph, but within a week it seemed as if his mind was drifting towards events in west London. If we’d gone up it might have been harder for him to leave. And when he did leave, as one poster remarked, it was “with barely a backwards glance”. That phrase seems painfully accurate. 

Cocu was an imaginative appointment. The alternatives were Gary monk etc. he is reserved and calm. He is clearly committed to the aim of promoting the youngsters, and he has dealt with all the off the field stuff. But I can’t quite fathom him out. Can he inspire the team? Does he have a clear vision? Will we ever emerge from transition? The tribunal judgement, the disruption to the season, and financial restrictions will continue to throw obstacles in his way. No one is calling for change. we are still waiting to see what he can do. 

I can't say much to some of the other questions you have raised as I think they are difficult to know at this point or without literally being in the club. Personally though I do think Cocu has laid out a crystal clear vision of what he wants to do in the short and longer term, more so than any other manager we've had probably since Clough. He had at least one half hour interview on this very subject earlier in the season.

[Van der MoodHoover]

17 minutes ago, Abu Dhabi Ram said:

Probably not a popular view, but I still think that Frank slightly underachieved with us (It was a really enjoyable season though) given the squad at his disposal. The quality of Mount, Wilson and Tomori, we also had Keogh, Bradley Johnson, Bryson etc, lots of experience and talent that I think should have gained promotion. He seemed to be able to fire them up for some games, but not others. We were fantastic against Leeds, but flat versus Villa in the final. 
 

Cocu’s season is almost impossible compare, it’s also quite difficult to judge how good a job he has done given the crazy circumstances surrounding this season. The football has shown patches of brilliance, but longer periods of not quite clicking and looking a work in progress. The team seems like it still has the shackles on and Cocu is hopefully keeping this in place until the right balance is found within the team. 

Next season we will see what Cocu is all about, I think there will be changes, maybe some surprises. The calm, consistent leadership displayed this season has been exactly what the club and fans have needed. Next season we should finally start a season with the same manager, something we have needed for a while. 

Still 8 weeks to the start of next season and bound to be some management chairs becoming vacant in that time.

Let us not count chickens just yet! ?

[brady1993]

12 minutes ago, Abu Dhabi Ram said:

Probably not a popular view, but I still think that Frank slightly underachieved with us (It was a really enjoyable season though) given the squad at his disposal. The quality of Mount, Wilson and Tomori, we also had Keogh, Bradley Johnson, Bryson etc, lots of experience and talent that I think should have gained promotion. He seemed to be able to fire them up for some games, but not others. We were fantastic against Leeds, but flat versus Villa in the final. 
 

Cocu’s season is almost impossible compare, it’s also quite difficult to judge how good a job he has done given the crazy circumstances surrounding this season. The football has shown patches of brilliance, but longer periods of not quite clicking and looking a work in progress. The team seems like it still has the shackles on and Cocu is hopefully keeping this in place until the right balance is found within the team. 

Next season we will see what Cocu is all about, I think there will be changes, maybe some surprises. The calm, consistent leadership displayed this season has been exactly what the club and fans have needed. Next season we should finally start a season with the same manager, something we have needed for a while. 

I'd say from a high level point of view Lampard's performance was probably about par. We had a lot of real highlights that season and some fantastic games but he arguably had the most talented squad we've had in years and from an injury/of-the-field point of view the season was pretty much plain sailing.

Cocu's season in charge has been far duller but I'd say given everything that's happened this season he's slightly overachieved. Our squad at the start of the season was a top 10 squad, we then lost our best player in Keogh along with the fallout from that disruption. After that point it was my opinion that mid table was as high as we could hope for. Instead up until Cardiff we had a real chance of playoffs and he's massively increased the value of the squad by bringing through Bird, Sibley and Knight all the while laying the foundations from which we can build going forward.

[brady1993]

4 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Still 8 weeks to the start of next season and bound to be some management chairs becoming vacant in that time.

Let us not count chickens just yet! ?

It's a fair point but I cannot see it.

Purely because I think Cocu is here for reasons other than simply managing in the premier league. Last summer if it was what he wanted I suspect he could have easily gotten a job in a top division somewhere if that's all that mattered to him, the only jobs that I could see pulling him away are jobs that he won't be offered at the minute (i.e. a top top club).

[Steve How Hard?]

Even though we all knew deep down that Frank was only ever a one night stand/ brief fling, it didn't stop most of us dreaming of something more. PC is more of a safe bet/ girl next door that could potentially evolve into the real deal. We've rode out some really rocky moments in the early part of the relationship and that bodes well for the future. For me if we try to rush things then it could all implode. I'm happy to let it evolve slowly, one step at a time. If we get ahead of ourselves and try and rush him he'll most certainly head for the hills. I'm excited for the future and long for the fairytale ending but it won't just happen overnight. It will need patience and work from either side. 

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, Steve How Hard? said:

I'm excited for the future and long for the fairytale ending but it won't just happen overnight. It will need patience and work from either side. 

Or a couple of honeymoon signings and we'll be looking forward to kids and more fireworks!

[LeedsCityRam]

9 hours ago, Mostyn6 said:

As i suggested, Derby would struggle to find tempo, intensity and inspiration. 
 

shame. 

Yeah, quite the Nostradamus predicting we would struggle playing 4 of the top 6 in our next 4. 

Genius.

[Mostyn6]

8 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Yeah, quite the Nostradamus predicting we would struggle playing 4 of the top 6 in our next 4. 

Genius.

Do me a favour and put me on mute so I don’t have to read any more of your pathetic sniping. Thanks

[LeedsCityRam]

Just now, Mostyn6 said:

Do me a favour and put me on mute so I don’t have to read any more of your pathetic sniping. Thanks

?? There's an ignore button Derek. Try it x