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14 hours ago, TramRam said:

I couldn't agree more, I had to defend the undefendable, HR and Management were seen as the enemy, I could quote chapter and verse our big green book back in the day...Ts and Cs negotiated way back from 1968, They struggled to know what how and when they could discipline someone, We were told by Very Senior Management that there needs to be new Ts and Cs, They were told a couple of years were needed to negotiate them.

Workers taking advantage of a system that's dated, It was there to protect the sick, Then self certification came along where you didn't need a Doctors sick note to prove you were ill, Then Political Correctness where a worker couldn't be challlenged, If they were then they were told they're out of procedure, It was loaded in favour of the shop floor worker.

Strike action is a long winded process, Meeting your members, Ballot your members, Give the company notice, By this time it's a case of who blinks 1st.

Not all British workers fall into this catagory i'm pleased to say.

The Union at this time are cornered and will have to accept the situation, No ifs buts or maybes...it is...Will be.

 

The trouble is in any company there are the ones who will get stuck in and do their bit. But you have others who take the mick. I’ve worked in the shipyard for nearly 40 years and it’s never been as bad. Team leaders can’t do anything to the ones who don’t want to work. They take the team leaders to H.R for bullying and H.R take their side.

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21 hours ago, rammieib said:

This culture is symbolic of British manufacturing in my eyes. We’re lazy and unproductive to put a carpet statement over it. Not everyone is, plenty of amazingly talented people out there but too many free loaders who exploit systems.

In my company we have long term sick paid at the full amount for 6 or 12 months. Guess what - we have 40% absenteeism at one king with Covid. Then once the two weeks were over, suddenly the colds appeared and then the mental health. Doctors will prescribe mental health notes incredibly easily in this country as their so scared of getting it wrong.

So those who are genuinely working and busting a gut are doing it to support those who are free loading. Then on top of this, you can’t even furlough long term sick. How stupid is that - so you have to furlough the genuine workers. Well how is the business supposed to keep ticking over in this scenario?

Sorry just makes me angry. Of course I wish our mgt would take a stronger line of action and just remove the sick pay benefit. The union will get an arse on, hell even strike, but they would look completely stupid if they did that in this day and age.

Hang just a secound mate there are people like my self that has learning difficulties and auriustim are you saying we dont desevse to be looked after through no fault of our own.

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17 minutes ago, B4ev6is said:

Hang just a secound mate there are people like my self that has learning difficulties and auriustim are you saying we dont desevse to be looked after through no fault of our own.

How on earth did you come up with that response from my post?

A) I’m talking about manufacturing, you work in entertainment.

B) I’ve labelled it as a general approach saying many people are amazing and busy a guy but many people free load.

C) Employees who need to self isolate are permitted to be furloughed, the law says that. I was annoyed it took us two months to do this. Those on long term sick cannot be furloughed but we have to keep paying them - but if my company is losing money we have to furlough the healthy and keep paying the sick - how does that help our business survive?

B4 - you’ve been looked after and you should be. Your business had to close for legal reasons, and the government is paying you 80%. That’s actually bloody good and more than enough to survive on during this period. 
 

Manufacturing will continue to die in this country apart from the hi-spec or large size components where shipping is too expensive. One of the reasons apart from labour costs being high is the fact we have too many lazy workers and unions who block things. 

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People could have cancer for you know or have  heart probleams that stop them from working does not mean there being lazy at all 

Yes it must be frusrating for you but you cant judge them because you dont know there personal situration.

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13 minutes ago, B4ev6is said:

People could have cancer for you know or have  heart probleams that stop them from working does not mean there being lazy at all 

Yes it must be frusrating for you but you cant judge them because you dont know there personal situration.

You've missed his point fella

He's saying people are taking the piss and getting signed off when they don't need to be, so still getting paid by the business, yet as a result are having to furlough the healthy workers

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2 hours ago, bimmerman said:

You've missed his point fella

He's saying people are taking the piss and getting signed off when they don't need to be, so still getting paid by the business, yet as a result are having to furlough the healthy workers

Still remain the same they could have family members who are ill and protecting them.

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5 hours ago, rammieib said:

Manufacturing will continue to die in this country apart from the hi-spec or large size components where shipping is too expensive. One of the reasons apart from labour costs being high is the fact we have too many lazy workers and unions who block things. 

You for some reason have a very low opinion of people that work in the manufacturing industry and the unions that represents them. 

Maybe you'd be happy to return to working a 48 hour week, no annual leave, no old age pension and unsafe working conditions. It always pees me off when I hear someone slagging off unions but are more than happy to enjoy many of the benefits that unions and their members have obtained over the years.

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9 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

You for some reason have a very low opinion of people that work in the manufacturing industry and the unions that represents them. 

Maybe you'd be happy to return to working a 48 hour week, no annual leave, no old age pension and unsafe working conditions. It always pees me off when I hear someone slagging off unions but are more than happy to enjoy many of the benefits that unions and their members have obtained over the years.

That angered me also but as having a go at people perhaps on sick leave there differents reason for it.

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@B4ev6is I can categorically say in our company if sick pay wasn’t 100% for 6/12 months we wouldn’t have absenteeism that runs at 12% on the shop floor during a normal year and during this Covid period peaked at 40%!

Now tell me how you run a manufacturing business when 40% of your workers are not on site and all bar a small handful of them, we are not allowed to furlough any of them?

And yes, of course some are genuine and protecting others but not that many!!! 

Ill give you a stat, between the Monday and the Tuesday when Bojo did his initial lockdown statement two months ago, 16 individuals who were in work on the Monday suddenly phoned in sick on the Tuesday! The rules around self isolation were already in place before the Bojo Monday night press briefing but overnight, 16 people suddenly developed symptoms?

The best companies with the best workers are the smaller size outfits (less than 50 people) where the owners have over the years managed to hand pick their team, treat them with respect and in return, not in a unionised environment, these workers grow loyal back to the business and work hard. Once you go over a certain size, their is simply too much protection in place that means companies cannot get rid of the pi$$ takers.

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29 minutes ago, rammieib said:

 

 

The best companies with the best workers are the smaller size outfits (less than 50 people) where the owners have over the years managed to hand pick their team, treat them with respect and in return, not in a unionised environment, these workers grow loyal back to the business and work hard. Once you go over a certain size, their is simply too much protection in place that means companies cannot get rid of the pi$$ takers.

Before my Royces days I worked for a small engineering company, There were 25 people, 2 owners of Husband and Wife, 3 office/wages staff, 3 storemen, 1 store Manager, 1 Sales Rep, 1 labourer, 2 delivery drivers I was one of them, The rest were machinests/fitters/borers in the shop, Non union the owner hated unions, But we all got on well, Sick pay, Wage rise every year, Xmas hamper every year, Double time when stock taking and fed...a great family business.

Then there was an incident that changed every thing, I brought 2 engines blocks back from Crewe Rail, Perkins they were around 7 hundred weight apiece, We craned them off with a push crane the ones used by hand, Both were put of the same pallet and I left for other deliveries, I came back to chaos, The labourer had somehow managed to unbalance a block which fell on his legs, Both legs smashed, Owner went to see him in hospital the next day, Things were said between them and life for a few days became somewhat normal.

The lads in the shop went to visit and found out what was said, The labourer was given £7k and a job for life, What happened was the labourer and the owner were moving the blocks and put both that were on a pallet with the pallet onto a smaller pallet, One block was craned off the other tipped over, Fault of the owner he said, I was called into the tea room by the workers and told they need to be protected, I asked what do you want...a Union they said, I went to the AUEW on Osmaston road I told him what had happened and he told me what to do, I was given 20 membership leaflets and told by the officer he needed a majority of 1, He got a majority or 6, All monies went out of their bank accounts and not wages in fear the owner would find out, Well the owner did find out pretty sure it was the HSE who I informed(grassedup)All the above benefits we were given were taken away, One by one each worker had pressure put on them to resign from the union, And one by one they did having all their benefits installed after around 6 months of then being taken away.

I was last man standing, The one with the Gob, I have principles I wasn't going to be bullied, No wage rige for 5 years, No Xmas hamper, The van I got to use for getting home and going to work was taken away, The friendship I had with both the owners had evaporated into thin air, There was a frostiness with myself and the rest of the staff, But once I was on the road all was well, I got back one day to be called into the office, 13 years service and a redundancy check for £2,500, 13 weeks lieu of notice ie paid leave, Told to clear my locker and leave, I went to say my goodbyes and not one could look me in the eye and say...sorry.

6 Months later I got a job at Rolls Royce and found what a Union can do for me, There's power in numbers and 1of4 is right, We have fought for our rights, Got what our fore fathers couldn't, Good working conditions, A very good wage, Great Ts and Cs, Sick pay, Holidays more than the average worker, Decent hours, Workware ie shirts trousers and boots, A subsidised restaraunt, Health care, Bereavement counciling...but there's those that want more for doing nothing than staying at home.

I'm semi retiered now...but still in a Union, Just incase I need advice/Solicitors help down the line.

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5 hours ago, rammieib said:

@B4ev6is I can categorically say in our company if sick pay wasn’t 100% for 6/12 months we wouldn’t have absenteeism that runs at 12% on the shop floor during a normal year and during this Covid period peaked at 40%!

Now tell me how you run a manufacturing business when 40% of your workers are not on site and all bar a small handful of them, we are not allowed to furlough any of them?

And yes, of course some are genuine and protecting others but not that many!!! 

Ill give you a stat, between the Monday and the Tuesday when Bojo did his initial lockdown statement two months ago, 16 individuals who were in work on the Monday suddenly phoned in sick on the Tuesday! The rules around self isolation were already in place before the Bojo Monday night press briefing but overnight, 16 people suddenly developed symptoms?

The best companies with the best workers are the smaller size outfits (less than 50 people) where the owners have over the years managed to hand pick their team, treat them with respect and in return, not in a unionised environment, these workers grow loyal back to the business and work hard. Once you go over a certain size, their is simply too much protection in place that means companies cannot get rid of the pi$$ takers.

Look it is never good when run under staff I get that and everyone got to twice as hard maybe some of them have mental health issues or maybe they gerenal really sick just cant work like I say.

I know my job not same as your there are times that really busy and people are sick rest of got pick up mess left behind.

I know it must seem really unfair but companies that 50k a year not allowed any help or support which is wrong I do think goverment should help company out.

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3 hours ago, King Kevin said:

Derby reliant on manufacturing and Nottingham the most reliant  city on EU funding ,looks like a rough time for the East Midlands ?

Having said that all the economic indicators that I have come across suggests we my be alright.

Alright as cities or you mean alright as a country?

Im really worried for the future of our city personally. 1500 jobs at JCB, 3500 at RR on Derby site I think (not the 8000 headline) but there just be hundreds, of not thousands in the Supply Chain behind it. We could be looking at one in ten jobs in the city going and so many of these are higher skilled.

We desperately need aviation to pick up as quickly as possible. The city needs to also attract companies here as quickly as possible as well although without the loss of green belt land.

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10 hours ago, rammieib said:

without the loss of green belt land.

I was in Castle Donington  at the weekend huge development going on there ,as unpalatable it may seem to some it's the result of millions of people being allowed into the UK .We can't have it always .

I can't say nationally but so far the housing market seems to have started well locally as well as in other ares I know .Lenders are doing physical valuations again as well as bringing back the higher loan to value  products .

We will have to see if it's pent up business  from the lockdown or a more sustained recovery .I do know the there is a massive backlog of people wanting to view properties which suggests it might be new business.

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3 hours ago, King Kevin said:

I was in Castle Donington  at the weekend huge development going on there ,as unpalatable it may seem to some it's the result of millions of people being allowed into the UK .We can't have it always .

I can't say nationally but so far the housing market seems to have started well locally as well as in other ares I know .Lenders are doing physical valuations again as well as bringing back the higher loan to value  products .

We will have to see if it's pent up business  from the lockdown or a more sustained recovery .I do know the there is a massive backlog of people wanting to view properties which suggests it might be new business.

May be people like my wife, who can't face another year of lockdown with the current neighbours!

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7 hours ago, King Kevin said:

I was in Castle Donington  at the weekend huge development going on there ,as unpalatable it may seem to some it's the result of millions of people being allowed into the UK .We can't have it always .

I can't say nationally but so far the housing market seems to have started well locally as well as in other ares I know .Lenders are doing physical valuations again as well as bringing back the higher loan to value  products .

We will have to see if it's pent up business  from the lockdown or a more sustained recovery .I do know the there is a massive backlog of people wanting to view properties which suggests it might be new business.

I’m not too far away from Castle Donington and there has been a number of business developments near this area so no surprise the demand for housing is increasing.

Yep absolutely the continually increasing population is resulting in green belt being lost. 250k net migration increase every year. 

Just sad how easy it is for green belt land to keep disappearing ahead of brownfield being developed. Areas such as the old Ramarena which just lays dormant ground should be developed before fields are lost.

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On 22/05/2020 at 19:06, rammieib said:

I believe RR mgt have had salaries cut by 20% and lower grade workers by 10%. No negotiation, no discussion, just done.

My best mate works there and he’s confirmed it’s happened to him. Anyone else confirm this?

Actually not quite true Management have 10% cut and 10% deferred to be repaid in March 2021 and the rest have had 10% deferred again to March 2021. Furlough workers or shielded workers still receive full pay once they return they will be classed as 10% defferal. By the way main board have had 20% straight cut.

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1 minute ago, SIXTEEN AGAIN said:

Actually not quite true Management have 10% cut and 10% deferred to be repaid in March 2021 and the rest have had 10% deferred again to March 2021. Furlough workers or shielded workers still receive full pay once they return they will be classed as 10% defferal. By the way main board have had 20% straight cut.

Thanks for clarifying. 
 

To be fair, first couple of months I’ve finished up quite comfortably and even now with a month of 80% pay and maternity I’m doing ok. 

As long as I have a job full time which is certainly not a guarantee then most people this shouldn’t be an issue as everyone’s outgoings have gone down.

Government just needs to get me and many others spending this money!!

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