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Curtains

Harry on Mel and Frank appointment

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Andicis said:

Because Lampard's football was enjoyable and Rowett's football was poo and gave us no notable games. Lampard never spouted poo off about being Derby through and through and it being his dream job. We all knew his dream was Chelsea, and that's ok. Rowett on the other hand. Frank brought through some youth, Rowett on the other hand. Looking at it purely for results is dumb. Snakey was much worse than Frank. poo football, poo signings, poo manager. 

I think you're being kind to Lampard in all honesty. For significant spells of the season, we didn't play well, most notably from January through to mid-April and even early on in the season. We didn't really click until October.

It was a mixed season. For every memorable performance, there was one that stuck in the mind for all of the wrong reasons. WBA, Norwich and Bristol City away were brilliant. Leeds, Sheff Utd and Aston Villa away were awful. Rotherham, Bolton, Blackburn away were terrible and equally Bolton and Rotherham at home were emphatic. We were capable of being competitive with Premier League sides like United, Chelsea and Southampton, but were just as capable of getting hammered at home by the likes of Leeds and Villa.

Rowett's season followed the same pattern - an equal amount of highs and lows and ultimately, disappointment in the play-offs. Across two spells, we went 19 games unbeaten and over the course of the season, we picked up some big wins. In the context of the season, wins like Boro, Birmingham, Leeds, Norwich away and Forest, Barnsley and Cardiff at home were just as significant at the time as any landmark Lampard win. Then of course, you had the lows like Sunderland at home and Burton and Bristol City away. 

Yes, their styles and their approaches were different but they both ultimately fell short when it mattered. In terms of their time at the club, neither will live long in the memory.

Edited by Jourdan

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1 minute ago, Jourdan said:

I think you're being kind to Lampard in all honesty. For significant spells of the season, we didn't play well, most notably from January through to mid-April and even early on in the season. We didn't really click until October.

It was a mixed season. For every memorable performance, there was one that stuck in the mind for all of the wrong reasons. WBA, Norwich and Bristol City away were brilliant. Leeds, Sheff Utd and Aston Villa away were awful. Rotherham, Bolton, Blackburn away were terrible and equally Bolton and Rotherham at home were emphatic. We were capable of being competitive with Premier League sides like United, Chelsea and Southampton, but were just as capable of getting hammered at home by the likes of Leeds and Villa.

Rowett's season followed the same pattern - an equal amount of highs and lows and ultimately, disappointment in the play-offs. Across two spells, we went 19 games unbeaten and over the course of the season, we picked up some big wins. In the context of the season, wins like Boro, Birmingham, Leeds, Norwich away and Forest, Barnsley and Cardiff at home were just as significant at the time as any landmark Lampard win. Then of course, you had the lows like Sunderland at home and Burton and Bristol City away. 

Yes, their styles and their approaches were different but they both ultimately fell short when it mattered. In terms of their time at the club, neither will live long in the memory.

Lampard left to Chelsea. Rowett left to Stoke, so for one, they aren't the same. You can forgive Lampard leaving to his club, what's Rowett's excuse? Weren't we his dream job? It was Lampard's first job, so of course it was mixed. We had some really, really high highs, though. And we always tried to play football in the right way. We never hoofed it. We also didn't sign a bunch of pensioner mercenaries. Rowett had the wrong idea of the game and got rid of Will Hughes for ''not being his type of player'' he doesn't deserve any credit. Lampard had a great first season with a limited squad. Lampard will live long in my memory, just for how good the highs were.

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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Lampard left to Chelsea. Rowett left to Stoke, so for one, they aren't the same. You can forgive Lampard leaving to his club, what's Rowett's excuse? Weren't we his dream job? It was Lampard's first job, so of course it was mixed. We had some really, really high highs, though. And we always tried to play football in the right way. We never hoofed it. We also didn't sign a bunch of pensioner mercenaries. Rowett had the wrong idea of the game and got rid of Will Hughes for ''not being his type of player'' he doesn't deserve any credit. Lampard had a great first season with a limited squad. Lampard will live long in my memory, just for how good the highs were.

They both left us for what they perceived to be a better job at a better club with better prospects - it's the same, in my opinion. If your wife leaves you, it will still hurt the same whether it's for a man, woman or a centaur. No-one likes being dumped.

Why should Lampard be forgiven for taking the Chelsea job? Lampard has been a manager for less than two years. It wasn't a now or never moment, especially with the turnover of managers at Chelsea. If he had been 10-12 years into his managerial career, I'd understand your point completely and actually would agree with you.

But realistically, Frank could have afforded himself the time to get more experience, pay his dues, master the craft and then taken on 'his dream job'. He could have progressed this club in the same way Nuno has done at Wolves and the same way Wilder has done at Sheffield United. And it would have been a lot more impactful and meaningful than any success he might now have at Chelsea.

I don't really care for Rowett either but I think he deserves more credit than you are giving him for his time here. Him moving to Stoke was a sideways step at best. Honestly, I thought he took a massive risk at the time. Obviously he didn't see it that way. Maybe after six years of slogging away in the Football League, he figured Stoke with their parachute money would be his fast-track ticket to the Premier League. It was no surprise that it didn't work out.

I don't think either of them made the right choice. We have already seen that ring true with Rowett lasting nine months at Stoke. I'm not convinced Lampard will be at Chelsea for years to come either.

But yes, for me, they are both cut from the same cloth. They both did reasonable jobs here but both ultimately failed and scurried off at the first sight of greener pastures.

Of our managers in modern times, I think Nigel Clough will actually live longer in the memory than either of them. So was Lampard's time here really all that special?

Edited by Jourdan

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1 hour ago, Jourdan said:

They both left us for what they perceived to be a better job at a better club with better prospects - it's the same, in my opinion. If your wife leaves you, it will still hurt the same whether it's for a man, woman or a centaur. No-one likes being dumped.

Why should Lampard be forgiven for taking the Chelsea job? Lampard has been a manager for less than two years. It wasn't a now or never moment, especially with the turnover of managers at Chelsea. If he had been 10-12 years into his managerial career, I'd understand your point completely and actually would agree with you.

But realistically, Frank could have afforded himself the time to get more experience, pay his dues, master the craft and then taken on 'his dream job'. He could have progressed this club in the same way Nuno has done at Wolves and the same way Wilder has done at Sheffield United. And it would have been a lot more impactful and meaningful than any success he might now have at Chelsea.

I don't really care for Rowett either but I think he deserves more credit than you are giving him for his time here. Him moving to Stoke was a sideways step at best. Honestly, I thought he took a massive risk at the time. Obviously he didn't see it that way. Maybe after six years of slogging away in the Football League, he figured Stoke with their parachute money would be his fast-track ticket to the Premier League. It was no surprise that it didn't work out.

I don't think either of them made the right choice. We have already seen that ring true with Rowett lasting nine months at Stoke. I'm not convinced Lampard will be at Chelsea for years to come either.

But yes, for me, they are both cut from the same cloth. They both did reasonable jobs here but both ultimately failed and scurried off at the first sight of greener pastures.

Of our managers in modern times, I think Nigel Clough will actually live longer in the memory than either of them. So was Lampard's time here really all that special?

Come on. You know it's different leaving Derby for Chelsea and leaving Derby for Stoke, and so do I. It's playing ignorant to pretend they're the same things, no mental gymnastics can change that. Lampard played the majority of his career at Chelsea, he's a Chelsea legend and he wanted to manage there. He couldn't turn it down. Rowett joined Stoke, chucked around the money and flopped completely. He's a good manager for a cheap squad that he can make overperform. He can't manage better players with higher expectations. Why would Nigel Clough live longer in the memory than Lampard? Without wanting to speak ill of Clough, his spell as the Derby manager was the most boring I've endured by some margin. We never had any hope or ambition for the whole time he was there.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Andicis said:

Come on. You know it's different leaving Derby for Chelsea and leaving Derby for Stoke, and so do I. It's playing ignorant to pretend they're the same things, no mental gymnastics can change that. Lampard played the majority of his career at Chelsea, he's a Chelsea legend and he wanted to manage there. He couldn't turn it down. Rowett joined Stoke, chucked around the money and flopped completely. He's a good manager for a cheap squad that he can make overperform. He can't manage better players with higher expectations. Why would Nigel Clough live longer in the memory than Lampard? Without wanting to speak ill of Clough, his spell as the Derby manager was the most boring I've endured by some margin. We never had any hope or ambition for the whole time he was there.

For me, it's a question of professional development. Timing is everything when you think about the trajectory of a career. He could have turned the job down. He could have bided his time. He could have built up a body of work.

If this is his dream job, if this is a job he holds in such high regard, surely he would want to do it right and do it justice? Surely he would want to take the job at the peak of his powers, at a time when his experience, knowledge and ability to deliver success is optimal? Is now that particular time? It's highly questionable. Personally I think if he had finished the job here and took a more gradual and organic route to his dream job, he would have won more admirers and earned more respect that way.

As it is, I think he'll regret taking the job so soon, because things can easily spiral downward with Chelsea being in such a fragile position. Klopp and Liverpool are going from strength to strength. City are comfortably better and will bounce back. United, Spurs and Arsenal will get their acts together sooner or later. Leicester, Wolves and Everton are slowly but surely closing the gap.

I am just struggling to see how he can find success and elevate the team to where the fans and everyone associated with the club expect them to be. If I'm honest, I think they will quickly lose patience with him. If so many other managers - with more experience and more managerial accomplishments - have struggled to keep a job there, why would Lampard be any different?

I think Nigel Clough's managerial spell will live longer in the memory because some seven years later, it is very clear that Clough laid the foundations and the groundwork for what followed. Perception at the time was much different. When you say there was no hope, no ambition, no joy, no excitement, I completely agree with that. Many felt this way at the time, including myself.

But now we can look back and say that without Clough's work of bringing in the likes of Keogh, Forsyth, Bryson, Russell and Martin and developing the likes of Hughes and Hendrick, would we have been able to challenge for promotion so consistently in the years that followed? His five years of toil were more impactful than Lampard's short-lived adventure, because without one, the other wouldn't have been possible.

Edited by Jourdan

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10 hours ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

My first instinct was tinpot, but now I quite like it...

I get that, but for me, everything that surrounded that game, spygate, stop crying and the actual comeback, I’m not sure it will ever be topped.

Leeds fans and even some of our own will say but what happened after, it doesn’t matter, that night was still special and this is just a little memento. 

It was actually someone at Radio Derby that tweeted it out the other day as he had it framed, had to get one myself.  

 

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On 21/05/2020 at 09:22, TramRam said:

Loyalty, Honesty and Trust are values that in football are in very very short supply, Who would you think fits into these catagories, Mcclaren, Rowett, Lampard or Nigel Clough, For me...100% it's Nigel Clough,

 

This is why NC is a Man I admire.

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/nigel-clough-says-burton-albion-4156871

 

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8 hours ago, David said:

I get that, but for me, everything that surrounded that game, spygate, stop crying and the actual comeback, I’m not sure it will ever be topped.

Leeds fans and even some of our own will say but what happened after, it doesn’t matter, that night was still special and this is just a little memento. 

It was actually someone at Radio Derby that tweeted it out the other day as he had it framed, had to get one myself.  

 

I have to admit from the 50+ years of watching DCFC, It's not at the top...but not too far away, The camaras scanning the Leeds fans after the final whistle was the icing on the icing of the cake...stop crying Frank Lampard 😂, In life there is always something you wish you hadn't done 👍

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1 hour ago, MuespachRam said:

yep... what a great guy, his Dad would be so proud of him...

 

(come back home Nigel...)

I admire Nigel more and more theses days. 
 

God luck to him in the future. 

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3 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Did a great job for us. But, as I said earlier, if last season was average then Clough's years were utterly diabolical.

Clough win ratio 33.5%

Lampard win ratio 42.1%

Pretty funny reading Moose Pack lay into Lampard, talk about winning is all that matters, then call for Nigel Clough to come back 😂

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Just now, David said:

Clough win ratio 33.5%

Lampard win ratio 42.1%

Pretty funny reading Moose Pack lay into Lampard then call for Nigel Clough to come back 😂

I really shouldn't bite, but I can't help it.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Did a great job for us. But, as I said earlier, if last season was average then Clough's years were utterly diabolical.

You can’t say that he was working under different parameters altogether. 

Edited by Curtains

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30 minutes ago, Curtains said:

You can’t say that he was working under different parameters altogether. 

What is it with people misinterpreting my posts recently?😂

The point was that if @MuespachRam insists that last season was average, then the Clough years have to be diabolical in comparison. Last season was far better than average, and Clough's years were far better than diabolical. That was the whole point of my post!

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5 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

What is it with people misinterpreting my posts recently?😂

The point was that if @MuespachRam insists that last season was average, then the Clough years have to be diabolical in comparison. Last season was far better than average, and Clough's years were far better than diabolical. That was the whole point of my post!

Last season was very good with some excellent football intermingled with some average football and some euphoric moments typically Leeds away .

Lampard did a very good job at Derby. 
 

Nigel Clough on the other hand ( and i have not always been his biggest fan ) in a lot of ways did a good job at Derby and never a diabolical one. 
 

This is an article I dug out which I found interesting .

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjQgvWek8jpAhXfaRUIHcYlDwsQFjAAegQIBBAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.derbytelegraph.co.uk%2Fburton%2Fnigel-clough-should-left-Derby-2237936&usg=AOvVaw3DWNqLfNwvj-l6MVdZgGci

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Last season was very good with some excellent football intermingled with some average football and some euphoric moments typically Leeds away .

Lampard did a very good job at Derby. 
 

Nigel Clough on the other hand ( and i have not always been his biggest fan ) in a lot of ways did a good job at Derby and never a diabolical one. 

That is literally what I was saying!!!

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