Harry on Mel and Frank appointment

[Jourdan]

As for the Lampard v McCarthy debate, I don't know how anyone can say Lampard is the better manager at this point.

Younger? Yes. More fashionable? Yes. More progressive? Yes. More popular? Yes. More famous? Yes. More media-friendly? Yes. More co-ordinated when bouncing? OK.

But a more accomplished manager? No way. You can only really base it on their performance with comparable clubs in comparable situations and in that respect, McCarthy wins hands down.

If your argument is that Lampard has managed a top club like Chelsea and McCarthy hasn't, well it is fair to say that Lampard experienced football privilege in getting the job when a whole host of more experienced and more accomplished managers wouldn't even have got shortlisted.

You could argue, all things being equal, McCarthy could have done a superior job at a top club if he had been given the chance.

 

[MuespachRam]

18 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

As for the Lampard v McCarthy debate, I don't know how anyone can say Lampard is the better manager at this point.

Younger? Yes. More fashionable? Yes. More progressive? Yes. More popular? Yes. More famous? Yes. More media-friendly? Yes. More co-ordinated when bouncing? OK.

But a more accomplished manager? No way. You can only really base it on their performance with comparable clubs in comparable situations and in that respect, McCarthy wins hands down.

If your argument is that Lampard has managed a top club like Chelsea and McCarthy hasn't, well it is fair to say that Lampard experienced football privilege in getting the job when a whole host of more experienced and more accomplished managers wouldn't even have got shortlisted.

You could argue, all things being equal, McCarthy could have done a superior job at a top club if he had been given the chance.

 

Exactly what that man put.

Perfectly put air and a lot more articulate than me just saying Fat Frank is a knobber. 
 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

5 hours ago, Jourdan said:

I've never really understood why so much of the fanbase have retained a fondness and a level of empathy for Lampard but can still muster all the insults under the sun when it comes to Rowett.

They were both guilty of the same - leaving a job unfinished, leaving a club in flux, and leaving at the first sign of interest from elsewhere - and as such I hold them both in the same regard.

In fact, you could argue Lampard comes out of it looking worse. At least Rowett's departure was reasonably swift and didn't develop into a saga played out in the national media.

I wouldn't go as far as waving inflatable snakes in their direction, but both of them definitely went down in my estimation when they left and neither of them have been missed. Personally, there is no clamour for a return and neither of them deserve a second spell in charge.

I'm very much of the belief you should at least attempt to finish the job you started. If you get fired, like in the case of McClaren, I take no issue. If, like in the case of Davies and Burley, you leave and you can look back knowing you have given the job everything and taken the club as far as you possibly can, I take no issue.

Did Lampard take us as far as he could? Who knows, but I would have a lot more respect for him if he had turned down Chelsea and actually focused on his job here.

Has anything he has done at Chelsea so far actually enhanced his reputation as a manager? Has there actually been an indication he has what it takes to get them back in the running for titles and trophies? I'd say no. After all, they are very much on course to finish behind Leicester and United could still pip them to fourth place. And in terms of challenging for honours, they look miles away.

In the long run, staying with us, getting the club promoted and establishing the club in the top flight and upsetting the odds would have looked far better on his CV than what he is currently doing - treading water with Chelsea. A situation I don't see changing very soon.

No-one will remember this season for Lampard and Chelsea finishing fourth. They will remember it for Chris Wilder and Sheffield United defying all logic and qualifying for Europe and for Brendan Rodgers and Leicester outperforming four of the traditional top six clubs.

Oh, and Villa doing a Fulham, of course.

I wouldn’t be particularly arsed about either of them coming back. My main point, which seems to have been completely missed, is that I had a ducking brilliant time last season and that I don’t regret MM’s decision to hire Lampard one bit. 

[TramRam]

6 hours ago, Jourdan said:

I've never really understood why so much of the fanbase have retained a fondness and a level of empathy for Lampard but can still muster all the insults under the sun when it comes to Rowett.

They were both guilty of the same - leaving a job unfinished, leaving a club in flux, and leaving at the first sign of interest from elsewhere - and as such I hold them both in the same regard.

In fact, you could argue Lampard comes out of it looking worse. At least Rowett's departure was reasonably swift and didn't develop into a saga played out in the national media.

I wouldn't go as far as waving inflatable snakes in their direction, but both of them definitely went down in my estimation when they left and neither of them have been missed. Personally, there is no clamour for a return and neither of them deserve a second spell in charge.

I'm very much of the belief you should at least attempt to finish the job you started. If you get fired, like in the case of McClaren, I take no issue. If, like in the case of Davies and Burley, you leave and you can look back knowing you have given the job everything and taken the club as far as you possibly can, I take no issue.

Did Lampard take us as far as he could? Who knows, but I would have a lot more respect for him if he had turned down Chelsea and actually focused on his job here.

Has anything he has done at Chelsea so far actually enhanced his reputation as a manager? Has there actually been an indication he has what it takes to get them back in the running for titles and trophies? I'd say no. After all, they are very much on course to finish behind Leicester and United could still pip them to fourth place. And in terms of challenging for honours, they look miles away.

In the long run, staying with us, getting the club promoted and establishing the club in the top flight and upsetting the odds would have looked far better on his CV than what he is currently doing - treading water with Chelsea. A situation I don't see changing very soon.

No-one will remember this season for Lampard and Chelsea finishing fourth. They will remember it for Chris Wilder and Sheffield United defying all logic and qualifying for Europe and for Brendan Rodgers and Leicester outperforming four of the traditional top six clubs.

Oh, and Villa doing a Fulham, of course.

Loyalty, Honesty and Trust are values that in football are in very very short supply, Who would you think fits into these catagories, Mcclaren, Rowett, Lampard or Nigel Clough, For me...100% it's Nigel Clough, So how is it that NC is now out of work while the other 3 are working, 1 a pundit, Not media savvy?, Plays sterile football?, Tells all how it is?, Doesn't pi$$ the owners money down the drain?, While SM, GR and FL saw/seen an opportunity to enhance their bank balance. In SMs/GRs case have money at your desposal but not the ability to be a success at Newcastle or Stoke, Both getting their just deserts imo only for Morris to reward SMs lack of loyalty by setting him on again, While NC was kicked out for doing a good job in difficult circumstances.

FL is the medias darling, Altho leaving his Wife for a TV celebrity excludes him from the begining of my post, He's a sackfull of England caps, Chelseas all time leading goal scorer, A wonderfull player to watch, And good looks to boot i'd guess, Abramovich came calling and negotiations begin including how much Chelsea pay DCFC compensation...it dragged on and on, But we all knew it was just a matter of time before FL agreed to sign up at his beloved Chelsea, Abramovich is no fool, Bring the Boy home, Pacify our supporters, They'll give him their support, He's under a transfer embargo...I can't lose Abramovich thinks, Will FL bring trophies to Chelsea, I don't know, Will he have money to spend...yes of course he will, Will FL always be liked by the media... you bet he will.

SMs football was a joy to watch1st time round, GRs football at times like watching grass grow, I have no time for the both of them, FLs football could be exciting or bland depending on Mason Mount not being injured, I neither like nor dislike FL,  Altho he did the same as the former, Left within contract ?, NCs football well that's another post aint it, But stands head and shoulders above the other 3 imo for being himself, It just didn't work for him at DCFC, You see it's not the person that's at fault...It's the brand of football they play that gets us all wound up about events concerning DCFC.

[MuespachRam]

3 hours ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

I wouldn’t be particularly arsed about either of them coming back. My main point, which seems to have been completely missed, is that I had a ducking brilliant time last season and that I don’t regret MM’s decision to hire Lampard one bit. 

It was a great season....? Seriously.? How many games did we lose..? We got smashed out of sight 3 times by Leeds and 3 time’s by Villa, lost to teams like Rotherham, Bolton and Millwall.... even Forest turned us over....I think you are just remembering that we beat United on penalties and the Leeds play off game.... the rest of the season was to say the least pretty poop..

[DarkFruitsRam7]

11 minutes ago, MuespachRam said:

It was a great season....? Seriously.? How many games did we lose..? We got smashed out of sight 3 times by Leeds and 3 time’s by Villa, lost to teams like Rotherham, Bolton and Millwall.... even Forest turned us over....I think you are just remembering that we beat United on penalties and the Leeds play off game.... the rest of the season was to say the least pretty poop..

In the 2006/07 season, which you rightly remember so fondly, we lost to Colchester, Doncaster and twice to Plymouth.

I didn't say it was a great season; I said I had a brilliant time. It's a subjective feeling, so I quite literally cannot be wrong. In addition to the United and Leeds games, I listed ten others that I absolutely loved, and the fact that those posts received 30 positive reactions suggests that I'm not the only one that feels that way. Maybe the great moments didn't quite make it to sunny Florida...

[Curtains]

Mel was advised by Harry to take Frank as Manager.  
 

I would say Harry did us a favour 

[Day]

So this has just arrived. What a night. I’m not allowed to place this in the frame above the bed though ?

[Brammie Steve]

26 minutes ago, David said:

So this has just arrived. What a night. I’m not allowed to place this in the frame above the bed though ?

Didn't someone predict that result and the Rams first goalscorer?

Now who was that?

Oh, yes!

Can I have the watch BTW.

[MuespachRam]

6 hours ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

In the 2006/07 season, which you rightly remember so fondly, we lost to Colchester, Doncaster and twice to Plymouth.

I didn't say it was a great season; I said I had a brilliant time. It's a subjective feeling, so I quite literally cannot be wrong. In addition to the United and Leeds games, I listed ten others that I absolutely loved, and the fact that those posts received 30 positive reactions suggests that I'm not the only one that feels that way. Maybe the great moments didn't quite make it to sunny Florida...

but...and it is a REALLY big but....in that season...we WON AT WEMBLEY.....do you know why..? Because we had a great manager......and Florida..?

[MuespachRam]

6 hours ago, Curtains said:

Mel was advised by Harry to take Frank as Manager.  
 

I would say Harry did us a favour 

he has only ever done one person a favour….himself

[DarkFruitsRam7]

9 minutes ago, MuespachRam said:

but...and it is a REALLY big but....in that season...we WON AT WEMBLEY.....do you know why..? Because we had a great manager......and Florida..?

That's it then, is it? It's physically impossible to enjoy any season of football unless we get promoted. Case closed.

You are consistently missing my point. My statement of 'I really enjoyed last season so I don't regret the appointment of Frank Lampard' has been twisted into 'Frank Lampard is the greatest manager in Derby County's history and last season was absolutely flawless'.

[MuespachRam]

5 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

That's it then, is it? It's physically impossible to enjoy any season of football unless we get promoted. Case closed.

You are consistently missing my point. My statement of 'I really enjoyed last season so I don't regret the appointment of Frank Lampard' has been twisted into 'Frank Lampard is the greatest manager in Derby County's history and last season was absolutely flawless'.

glad you enjoyed it.....personally I thought it was very average....and would have been a lot better if a better manager would have been in charge..

and, football is all about winning.....people say "I like the good entertainment" but no one actually means it.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

1 hour ago, MuespachRam said:

glad you enjoyed it.....personally I thought it was very average....and would have been a lot better if a better manager would have been in charge..

and, football is all about winning.....people say "I like the good entertainment" but no one actually means it.

I'm sorry, but I can't deem a season as average when the following happened (sorry to quote myself):

The last-gasp winner at Reading; beating United at Old Trafford; coming within inches of taking Chelsea to penalties at Stamford Bridge; absolutely battering West Brom; the comeback at Norwich; knocking Premier League Southampton out of the FA Cup; the huge wins against QPR, Bristol and West Brom at the end of the season; the greatest night in my Derby-supporting life at Elland Road and a day out at Wembley.

If the above is 'average', then Rowett's season was poor and every single one of Nigel Clough's years were utterly diabolical.

If we had won at Wembley, I presume the season would no longer be average, and would instead be just as good as 06/07? I can understand you saying that the 06/07 season was better than last season because we went up, but to say one game can take a season from average to outstanding is way too much of a stretch for me.

And I agree about the 'I like the good entertainment' part. I care about winning matches.

[Rev]

The highs were very enjoyable @DarkFruitsRam7, sporadically throughout the majority of the season but especially so towards the end, Bristol, Swansea and Leeds away, WBA at home.

The lows were the same as any other season.

If you gave me a time machine and let me pick the manager at the time, I wouldn't pick McCarthy over Frank even knowing how the season would turn out, but I think Mick gets a harder time than his record deserves.

I would lay more credit at the doors of the three loanees mind, but without Frank they wouldn't have been at the club, so that's another plus for him.

He built a connection with the fans, but in hindsight it seems pretty one sided looking back.

If he'd have stayed, I think we may have seen a couple of better loans come in than under Cocu, but I honestly don't think he'd have moved the team forward that much, if at all, compared to his previous season, and it would be much the same.

 

 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

4 minutes ago, reverendo de duivel said:

The highs were very enjoyable @DarkFruitsRam7, sporadically throughout the majority of the season but especially so towards the end, Bristol, Swansea and Leeds away, WBA at home.

The lows were the same as any other season.

I agree. But a season with the same lows as any other but higher highs makes it better than average.

If you gave me a time machine and let me pick the manager at the time, I wouldn't pick McCarthy over Frank even knowing how the season would turn out, but I think Mick gets a harder time than his record deserves.

Again, I agree. I think McCarthy is a very good manager. I probably wouldn't back him to get us promoted in 2020, but he's still a very capable Championship manager.

I would lay more credit at the doors of the three loanees mind, but without Frank they wouldn't have been at the club, so that's another plus for him. 

Again, agreed.

He built a connection with the fans, but in hindsight it seems pretty one sided looking back.

Perhaps. To be fair, I always wanted the focus to be on the players at the end of the game and not the manager. But maybe some loved Lampard more than he loved them.

If he'd have stayed, I think we may have seen a couple of better loans come in than under Cocu, but I honestly don't think he'd have moved the team forward that much, if at all, compared to his previous season, and it would be much the same.

I don't think he would have got us promoted this season either. My point has always been about the fantastic times we had at various points last season, and not his ability as a manager.

 

[Andicis]

20 hours ago, Jourdan said:

I've never really understood why so much of the fanbase have retained a fondness and a level of empathy for Lampard but can still muster all the insults under the sun when it comes to Rowett.

They were both guilty of the same - leaving a job unfinished, leaving a club in flux, and leaving at the first sign of interest from elsewhere - and as such I hold them both in the same regard.

In fact, you could argue Lampard comes out of it looking worse. At least Rowett's departure was reasonably swift and didn't develop into a saga played out in the national media.

I wouldn't go as far as waving inflatable snakes in their direction, but both of them definitely went down in my estimation when they left and neither of them have been missed. Personally, there is no clamour for a return and neither of them deserve a second spell in charge.

I'm very much of the belief you should at least attempt to finish the job you started. If you get fired, like in the case of McClaren, I take no issue. If, like in the case of Davies and Burley, you leave and you can look back knowing you have given the job everything and taken the club as far as you possibly can, I take no issue.

Did Lampard take us as far as he could? Who knows, but I would have a lot more respect for him if he had turned down Chelsea and actually focused on his job here.

Has anything he has done at Chelsea so far actually enhanced his reputation as a manager? Has there actually been an indication he has what it takes to get them back in the running for titles and trophies? I'd say no. After all, they are very much on course to finish behind Leicester and United could still pip them to fourth place. And in terms of challenging for honours, they look miles away.

In the long run, staying with us, getting the club promoted and establishing the club in the top flight and upsetting the odds would have looked far better on his CV than what he is currently doing - treading water with Chelsea. A situation I don't see changing very soon.

No-one will remember this season for Lampard and Chelsea finishing fourth. They will remember it for Chris Wilder and Sheffield United defying all logic and qualifying for Europe and for Brendan Rodgers and Leicester outperforming four of the traditional top six clubs.

Oh, and Villa doing a Fulham, of course.

Because Lampard's football was enjoyable and Rowett's football was poo and gave us no notable games. Lampard never spouted poo off about being Derby through and through and it being his dream job. We all knew his dream was Chelsea, and that's ok. Rowett on the other hand. Frank brought through some youth, Rowett on the other hand. Looking at it purely for results is dumb. Snakey was much worse than Frank. poo football, poo signings, poo manager. 

[MaltRam]

6 hours ago, David said:

So this has just arrived. What a night. I’m not allowed to place this in the frame above the bed though ?

I want one.

[Andicis]

20 hours ago, Jourdan said:

As for the Lampard v McCarthy debate, I don't know how anyone can say Lampard is the better manager at this point.

Younger? Yes. More fashionable? Yes. More progressive? Yes. More popular? Yes. More famous? Yes. More media-friendly? Yes. More co-ordinated when bouncing? OK.

But a more accomplished manager? No way. You can only really base it on their performance with comparable clubs in comparable situations and in that respect, McCarthy wins hands down.

If your argument is that Lampard has managed a top club like Chelsea and McCarthy hasn't, well it is fair to say that Lampard experienced football privilege in getting the job when a whole host of more experienced and more accomplished managers wouldn't even have got shortlisted.

You could argue, all things being equal, McCarthy could have done a superior job at a top club if he had been given the chance.

 

Lampard has managed for 2 years, how many has McCarthy had? How can you even compare the two? They've never been in situations even comparable to each other. What comparable clubs have they had? Regardless, McCarthy is another poo hoofball manager. 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

7 hours ago, David said:

So this has just arrived. What a night. I’m not allowed to place this in the frame above the bed though ?

My first instinct was tinpot, but now I quite like it...