Harry on Mel and Frank appointment

[MuespachRam]

14 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

A team in the champions league, I wouldn’t have thought it’s that difficult to understand... you can even extend to the so called “big six” and the point will still hold. International teams don’t mean poo when you’re Lampard’s age. Once he’s the same age as McCarthy, if he hasn’t managed England then you might have a point, but I’m pretty sure if the job became available now he’d be No.1 on the list.

exactly my point then....so Mick has managed a team that have been TOP of the league... so he is a Premier league champion manager is he?

and.. not to be a stickler for a fact BUT.... fat Frank is 41 years old..... Mick managed an International team when he was...…...37... ha ha

[DarkFruitsRam7]

24 minutes ago, MuespachRam said:

Thanks for emphasizing my point perfectly.... I DO have no idea what the culture was like BEFORE fat Frank was there......BUT I DO know what it was like during his time and after his time here.....almost like he let the culture fester.... hmm, which wise man said that earlier..?

and no response to picking a drunken idiot who couldn't hit a barn door over Marriott at Wembley...? GREAT management that was....inspired...…….

In that case, isn’t Cocu guilty of allowing this so-called ‘drinking culture’ to fester? The drink driving incident happened while he was manager, don’t forget. Suggesting that Lampard is to blame is absolutely absurd.

As for picking Bennett, that was obviously a poor decision in hindsight. I’ve never claimed Lampard did an amazing job - all I’ve said is that we had some absolutely fantastic moments last season. In fact, the vast majority of my fondest Derby memories come from last season.

[MuespachRam]

Just now, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

In that case, isn’t Cocu guilty of allowing this so-called ‘drinking culture’ to fester? The drink driving incident happened while he was manager, don’t forget. Suggesting that Lampard is to blame is absolutely absurd.

As for picking Bennett, that was obviously a poor decision in hindsight. I’ve never claimed Lampard did an amazing job - all I’ve said is that we had some absolutely fantastic moments last season. In fact, the vast majority of my fondest Derby memories come from last season.

Yep, he totally is to blame too. I never said he wasn't...

there were some decent memories from last season, but the Leeds game definitely clouds peoples vision as to how good it actually was...not even in the top 10 seasons I have witnessed.

[Millenniumram]

12 minutes ago, MuespachRam said:

exactly my point then....so Mick has managed a team that have been TOP of the league... so he is a Premier league champion manager is he?

and.. not to be a stickler for a fact BUT.... fat Frank is 41 years old..... Mick managed an International team when he was...…...37... ha ha

What on Earth are you on about? Where Mick took a team after 3 games of a season is entirely irrelevant. The point is, Lampard was given a champions league level job - which is something McCarthy was never given. And that’s because he wasn’t a good enough manager to warrant such a job, or at the very least he wasn’t capable of playing the style of play desired at that level. 

Mccarthy started his managerial career nearly ten years younger than Lampard, so there’s no real direct comparison to be had there. Regardless I’d hardly call getting the ROI job an achievement... I’m pretty sure some randomer who’s only managed in the Irish leagues currently holds that post.

[rynny]

6 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

I’m pretty sure some randomer who’s only managed in the Irish leagues currently holds that post.

Mick McCarthy is the manager

[Mucker1884]

3 hours ago, MuespachRam said:

I disagree, he would have gone to Everton/Newcastle or Leicester for more money...why wouldn't he, he has no loyalty to us... a top flight club or stay in the championship..? he would have been off in a heart beat.....although that's not actually true, he would have taken ages over it and dragged it on all through the summer....but  he would have gone,

I say "I doubt".  As in, I'm guessing.  It's my opinion.

You say "He would".  As in Fact!

That's some statement, seeing as I suspect he wouldn't even be able to answer that hypothetical question himself!  (Again, for the record, I'm guessing!)

 

Anyway, in response to your fact/opinion...

Rightly or wrongly, I get the impression that Frank might just be the sort of guy (There are still a few out there) that would have thought "Hmmm... Everton/Newcastle/Fester?  Wow, That's equally flattering and tempting, but you know what, I've literally been a manager for 12 months, and I want to learn the trade, and make a bloody good career out of it.  As tempting as it is, if I rooster it up, that could affect the rest of my managerial career.  Thanks but no thanks.  Too much, too soon"

However...

Rightly or wrongly, I also get the impression that Frank might just have thought "Chelsea?  poo!  So soon?  It's an absolute dream to manage them, but I was planning on doing that when I was at the peak of my managerial career, not this bloody early, when my first set of teeth haven't started to come through yet!  What the hell do I do now?  I may not get another chance, and if that proves to be the case, I will most certainly die with regrets.  Damn, I'd better take my time over this, before making what will possibly be the biggest decision I ever make!  poo on it!  poo on it!"

 

One thing's for certain though... neither you or I actually know as fact, or can prove as fact, which one of us is correct, and which one not.  We could go backwards and forwards surmising and guessing until the cows come home... but we won't!  ??

[Millenniumram]

2 minutes ago, rynny said:

Mick McCarthy is the manager

Might wanna fact check before you post ? 

The Irish manager is currently Stephen Kenny

[rynny]

1 minute ago, Millenniumram said:

Might wanna fact check before you post ? 

The Irish manager is currently Stephen Kenny

I did. Bloody Google. 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

11 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

What on Earth are you on about? Where Mick took a team after 3 games of a season is entirely irrelevant. The point is, Lampard was given a champions league level job - which is something McCarthy was never given. And that’s because he wasn’t a good enough manager to warrant such a job, or at the very least he wasn’t capable of playing the style of play desired at that level. 

Mccarthy started his managerial career nearly ten years younger than Lampard, so there’s no real direct comparison to be had there. Regardless I’d hardly call getting the ROI job an achievement... I’m pretty sure some randomer who’s only managed in the Irish leagues currently holds that post.

At the time Ireland were ranked 12- 14 in the world rankings and in the same pot as England in the world cup draw. Lampard got his job at Chelsea because there fans had an obsession with him getting it .  He would never have sniffed a job in the premier league if not.

[Rev]

52 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Don’t think I’ve ever said I thought Lampard was incredibly successful at Derby? I thought he did a pretty decent job, but nothing more. There was certainly a lot of inexperience on show, but it was a damn sight more entertaining than it would’ve been under certain more “experienced” managers - who wouldn’t have guaranteed any greater success. That’s my point really. At the time I didn’t think Lampard was the right man for Chelsea, but he’s obviously got something special about him or they wouldn’t have offered him the job - as much as his history there no doubt helps, it alone wouldn’t be enough to get a job of that magnitude.

Be honest, do you think Frank would've got the Chelsea job if his playing career had been at West Ham, Arsenal etc?

Of course he wouldn't, otherwise they'd have appointed McClaren, Wassall or Rowett in past seasons.

[MuespachRam]

36 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

What on Earth are you on about? Where Mick took a team after 3 games of a season is entirely irrelevant. The point is, Lampard was given a champions league level job - which is something McCarthy was never given. And that’s because he wasn’t a good enough manager to warrant such a job, or at the very least he wasn’t capable of playing the style of play desired at that level. 

Mccarthy started his managerial career nearly ten years younger than Lampard, so there’s no real direct comparison to be had there. Regardless I’d hardly call getting the ROI job an achievement... I’m pretty sure some randomer who’s only managed in the Irish leagues currently holds that post.

so one manager TOOK a team to the top of the table.....the other manager INHERITED a team that were 4th(?)…..and THAT makes him a BETTER manager...…..??? brilliant.

you stated that when Frank is Micks age then we can compare.....but regardless of when he started managing, he was younger than fat boy is when he was appointed the manager of an International team.....

[Millenniumram]

20 minutes ago, reverendo de duivel said:

Be honest, do you think Frank would've got the Chelsea job if his playing career had been at West Ham, Arsenal etc?

Of course he wouldn't, otherwise they'd have appointed McClaren, Wassall or Rowett in past seasons.

No, but equally I don’t think he’d have got the job if he wasn’t a good enough manager for it. Abramovich isn’t a sentimental idiot, he’d have made sure Lampard was the right man for the job. Just because he didn’t achieve as much at Derby as McClaren and arguably Rowett doesn’t mean he doesn’t have more in his locker as a manager. It’s his greater potential that has gotten him the top job that eluded managers like McCarthy.

[MuespachRam]

31 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

I say "I doubt".  As in, I'm guessing.  It's my opinion.

You say "He would".  As in Fact!

That's some statement, seeing as I suspect he wouldn't even be able to answer that hypothetical question himself!  (Again, for the record, I'm guessing!)

 

Anyway, in response to your fact/opinion...

Rightly or wrongly, I get the impression that Frank might just be the sort of guy (There are still a few out there) that would have thought "Hmmm... Everton/Newcastle/Fester?  Wow, That's equally flattering and tempting, but you know what, I've literally been a manager for 12 months, and I want to learn the trade, and make a bloody good career out of it.  As tempting as it is, if I rooster it up, that could affect the rest of my managerial career.  Thanks but no thanks.  Too much, too soon"

However...

Rightly or wrongly, I also get the impression that Frank might just have thought "Chelsea?  poo!  So soon?  It's an absolute dream to manage them, but I was planning on doing that when I was at the peak of my managerial career, not this bloody early, when my first set of teeth haven't started to come through yet!  What the hell do I do now?  I may not get another chance, and if that proves to be the case, I will most certainly die with regrets.  Damn, I'd better take my time over this, before making what will possibly be the biggest decision I ever make!  poo on it!  poo on it!"

 

One thing's for certain though... neither you or I actually know as fact, or can prove as fact, which one of us is correct, and which one not.  We could go backwards and forwards surmising and guessing until the cows come home... but we won't!  ??

ha ha nicely put... actually perfectly put, personally I disagree with it, I THINK he would have gone to any top flight team.....but I also think that if his name was Darren Wassall then he would have been behind Mr Bean and Mike Tyson in the odds to get the next Chelsea job...

[MuespachRam]

Just now, Millenniumram said:

No, but equally I don’t think he’d have got the job if he wasn’t a good enough manager for it. Abramovich isn’t a sentimental idiot, he’d have made sure Lampard was the right man for the job. Just because he didn’t achieve as much at Derby as McClaren and arguably Rowett doesn’t mean he doesn’t have more in his locker as a manager. It’s his greater potential that has gotten him the top job that eluded managers like McCarthy.

He got the job because his name was Frank Lampard, nothing at all to do with his managerial noggin..... Eddie Howe is a year older than fat boy and would have been a million times better appointment in a purely footballing terms for Chelsea, Abramovic needed to win over the supporters again, they had messed up with spending stupid money on stupid players and giving Frank the job was a totally free hit for him

 

[Millenniumram]

10 minutes ago, MuespachRam said:

so one manager TOOK a team to the top of the table.....the other manager INHERITED a team that were 4th(?)…..and THAT makes him a BETTER manager...…..??? brilliant.

you stated that when Frank is Micks age then we can compare.....but regardless of when he started managing, he was younger than fat boy is when he was appointed the manager of an International team.....

Again, McCarthy took a team to the top of the league three games in - that means absolutely nothing. If I’m correct, they dropped away quite significantly after that start. If positions before the end of a season matter so much, then perhaps we should award Liverpool a couple of extra prem titles for how they started last season and the one under Brendan Rodgers? I’m sure you’d appreciate that!

I think you must be deliberately missing the point here because I’ve said it about 10 times - the point is, Lampard reached a higher level as a manager because he was offered a job at the level of Chelsea. McCarthy was never given a job at that level, nor did he ever take a team to that level. You don’t get a top job like that purely on your name, you need to have something about you - as I’ve said, Abramovich is no mug. 

I meant when they’ve reached the same stage in their managerial career, but it’s not even a point worth discussing anyway. Managing an international team is not a level above managing a Champions league team. Managing at international level wouldn’t interest Lampard until he’s older and wants a less full on role, that’s the point here. If he applied for the Ireland job when they gave it to that no mark, do you not reckon he’d have got it?

 

[Rev]

9 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

No, but equally I don’t think he’d have got the job if he wasn’t a good enough manager for it. Abramovich isn’t a sentimental idiot, he’d have made sure Lampard was the right man for the job. Just because he didn’t achieve as much at Derby as McClaren and arguably Rowett doesn’t mean he doesn’t have more in his locker as a manager. It’s his greater potential that has gotten him the top job that eluded managers like McCarthy.

Say we'd have lost Vs West Brom final day, and finished 8th.

Do you think that he would've been appointed then?

[Millenniumram]

6 minutes ago, MuespachRam said:

He got the job because his name was Frank Lampard, nothing at all to do with his managerial noggin..... Eddie Howe is a year older than fat boy and would have been a million times better appointment in a purely footballing terms for Chelsea, Abramovic needed to win over the supporters again, they had messed up with spending stupid money on stupid players and giving Frank the job was a totally free hit for him

 

If you genuinely think multi millionaire Roman Abramovich cares so much about what the fans think of him that he’d appoint a useless manager causing him to lose millions from missing out on the champions league then you’re even more deluded than I thought. I’m sure it was his name that got him on their radar - but there’s simply no way he gets the job unless he’s a good enough manager. The rapore with the fans maybe gave him a boost over other managers at a similar level, but no more than that. If Chelsea just wanted a name, why didn’t Mr Chelsea himself John Terry get the job?

[Millenniumram]

3 minutes ago, reverendo de duivel said:

Say we'd have lost Vs West Brom final day, and finished 8th.

Do you think that he would've been appointed then?

No idea, the fact they appointed him while he was at a championship club probably suggests to me he didn’t get the job based on previous managerial achievements - almost solely he was appointed on the basis of his Potential. So I’d say yes he probably would have been, but you’d have to ask Abramovich to be sure.

[MuespachRam]

14 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

No idea, the fact they appointed him while he was at a championship club probably suggests to me he didn’t get the job based on previous managerial achievements - almost solely he was appointed on the basis of his Potential. So I’d say yes he probably would have been, but you’d have to ask Abramovich to be sure.

the fact that he got the job while at a championship club suggests that he got it because of his name and nothing to do with his "potential" There were 5 teams above us that season, all with better managers, did any of them get thrown in the ring..? no, because their name wasn't Fat frank.

[MuespachRam]

23 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Again, McCarthy took a team to the top of the league three games in - that means absolutely nothing. If I’m correct, they dropped away quite significantly after that start. If positions before the end of a season matter so much, then perhaps we should award Liverpool a couple of extra prem titles for how they started last season and the one under Brendan Rodgers? I’m sure you’d appreciate that!

I think you must be deliberately missing the point here because I’ve said it about 10 times - the point is, Lampard reached a higher level as a manager because he was offered a job at the level of Chelsea. McCarthy was never given a job at that level, nor did he ever take a team to that level. You don’t get a top job like that purely on your name, you need to have something about you - as I’ve said, Abramovich is no mug. 

I meant when they’ve reached the same stage in their managerial career, but it’s not even a point worth discussing anyway. Managing an international team is not a level above managing a Champions league team. Managing at international level wouldn’t interest Lampard until he’s older and wants a less full on role, that’s the point here. If he applied for the Ireland job when they gave it to that no mark, do you not reckon he’d have got it?

 

But that is the point isn't it Lampard HAS NOT reached a higher level as a manager has he....what has he achieved.....NOTHING....what has he won....NOTHING.....all he has ever done is lose a final by being out classed by Dean Smith and picking the wrong side...…

Mick has won titles and been an international manager....Lampards not even close to that yet, not even close.

 

And Abramovic no mug...… break me a give.... some of the signings/managers he has authorized.... wow..