Are Derby players deferring wages?

[Topram]

Thought we were announcing something positive?

[i-Ram]

25 minutes ago, Topram said:

Thought we were announcing something positive?

To be honest no news coming out of, or about, Derby is quite positive.

[GB SPORTS]

2 hours ago, rammieib said:

The extra 20% can be quite a lot for a business to pay whilst getting no return from that employee. Morally and ethically it is still probably the right thing to do and some companies who will pay the shortfall get rewarded in the long term by their employees.

My issue on this is that someone earning £40k a year, probably receives around £2200/£2300 a month AFTER tax as a guess. If they get Furloughed, they will still be paying I believe the 40% tax bracket, plus the 8% NI. So their pay will drop to around £1300 for that month.

If you have mortgages and bills, that is still quite a lot of money to drop down to. For 1, maybe 2 months you could just about survive but beyond 2 months, it would be very difficult, especially for a person living alone or a person where they are the breadwinner in the family.

Anyway, on a separate note - what was the big announcement from Derby players due yesterday? Did I miss it?

40k/annum to £2.5k/month on Furlough is about a £680/month drop in the bank.(after basic deductions)

[G STAR RAM]

3 hours ago, rammieib said:

The extra 20% can be quite a lot for a business to pay whilst getting no return from that employee. Morally and ethically it is still probably the right thing to do and some companies who will pay the shortfall get rewarded in the long term by their employees.

My issue on this is that someone earning £40k a year, probably receives around £2200/£2300 a month AFTER tax as a guess. If they get Furloughed, they will still be paying I believe the 40% tax bracket, plus the 8% NI. So their pay will drop to around £1300 for that month.

If you have mortgages and bills, that is still quite a lot of money to drop down to. For 1, maybe 2 months you could just about survive but beyond 2 months, it would be very difficult, especially for a person living alone or a person where they are the breadwinner in the family.

Anyway, on a separate note - what was the big announcement from Derby players due yesterday? Did I miss it?

Your miles out with your figures.

An employee doing from £40k on to furlough leave would be just over £500 per month worse off.

When you consider potential savings on fuel and leisure expenditure I doubt they would be much worse off at all.

Added to that is the fact that they have the option of deferring most debt repayments for 3 months.

[MuespachRam]

3 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Your miles out with your figures.

An employee doing from £40k on to furlough leave would be just over £500 per month worse off.

When you consider potential savings on fuel and leisure expenditure I doubt they would be much worse off at all.

Added to that is the fact that they have the option of deferring most debt repayments for 3 months.

..and that makes it ok that classes billionaire toss pots thing it is ok to take a pay rise and a bonus while their staff suffer...….. this has whole thing has highlighted what we already knew....Daniel Levy, Sports Direct knob head, other greedy chairmen ….all care about one person..themselves..

Also, nice to see the victims showing their true colours again....classless...I thought they were supposed to be the working mans club, the republic of Merseyside etc etc etc ….. they can do as many U Turns as they like under public pressure but will always be classless.

[David]

44 minutes ago, MuespachRam said:

..and that makes it ok that classes billionaire toss pots thing it is ok to take a pay rise and a bonus while their staff suffer...….. this has whole thing has highlighted what we already knew....Daniel Levy, Sports Direct knob head, other greedy chairmen ….all care about one person..themselves..

Also, nice to see the victims showing their true colours again....classless...I thought they were supposed to be the working mans club, the republic of Merseyside etc etc etc ….. they can do as many U Turns as they like under public pressure but will always be classless.

Surprised it took you this long ?

I do agree that clubs like Liverpool who are recording £42m profits should not be using these government schemes.

They got it wrong, and fixed it and yes they shouldn’t be praised for it, simply applauded for recognising they got it wrong and rectified it. 

More local to me, Grimsby Town have placed their players and staff on furlough, it’s going to hit these smaller clubs so hard unless games can resume again soon.

[DCFC27]

10 hours ago, EulogyForEvolution said:

There is a huge difference between players 'earning their salaries' and 'deserving to be comfortable enough to have choices' and the ridiculous system we find ourselves in. 

Tom Huddlestone and Curtis Davies, as an example, will earn the equivalent of the average yearly salary in a single week. Every week.  

The footballers that make it are the best of the best and deserve to have salaries that reflect that, but anyone thinking they deserve to be paid in the region of £20,000 - £400,000 a week need to give their head a wobble.

The level of wages they are paid are not covered by revenues coming into the clubs, which is one big reason why so many clubs find themselves in perilous financial positions. I appreciate that is different in different levels of football, and the lads earning £1000 a week in League One and Two don't worry me.

Many people in the country right now are being asked to live on 80% of their current wage, or they've been let go or work on a zero hours contract and are being asked to survive on £94 a week. We all set our budgets as best we can to correlate with the wages we have coming in - a footballer losing 20% of their salary is relatively no worse off than the rest of us. Arguably, most of them will be financially insulated from this completely. If that means giving up the lease on their sports car then I won't be losing any sleep over it. 

Do I agree with the way Matt Hancock went after footballers specifically? Absolutely not! If footballers are being asked to dig deep and help then so should bankers, CEOs and all other people sitting on vast fortunes. Including people in the government, like Jacob Rees Mogg, who is actively using this as an excuse to mop up struggling small and medium sized businesses and make a packet.

I just want to make sure the club staff are looked after and that the club still exists at the end of this. 

Again pretty short sighted,  the vast majority of  footballers have pledged support to NHS and already support lots of charities. 
 But do I care how much someone gets paid... I’m happier when they earn more... the more they earn the more they pay in tax and the less we do. 
Let’s say Davies earns £20k per week that would equate to him already contributing around £469k in ni and tax. 
But when it comes to his pension planning for the rest of his life he’s going to need around most people now looking for a comfortable retirement are looking to save around £1 million for 20-30 year retirement. For him to pay for that as well as the next 30 years supplemental income he’s probably going to need almost £4 million considering the lack of tax efficient wrappers available to him.

he’s probably earned around 6/7 million net over his career, I mean I don’t feel sorry for  him by any means but I can certainly understand why they might be annoyed at people telling them to give up or defer their wages. 

[MuespachRam]

6 hours ago, David said:

Surprised it took you this long ?

I do agree that clubs like Liverpool who are recording £42m profits should not be using these government schemes.

They got it wrong, and fixed it and yes they shouldn’t be praised for it, simply applauded for recognising they got it wrong and rectified it. 

More local to me, Grimsby Town have placed their players and staff on furlough, it’s going to hit these smaller clubs so hard unless games can resume again soon.

Yep, there will be a lot of the smaller clubs that will be well and truly F’d up after all this has finished unless the ones with endless money actually dip their hand in their pocket and help them out...which they 100% will not do. 

[EulogyForEvolution]

11 hours ago, DCFC27 said:

Again pretty short sighted,  the vast majority of  footballers have pledged support to NHS and already support lots of charities. 
 But do I care how much someone gets paid... I’m happier when they earn more... the more they earn the more they pay in tax and the less we do. 
Let’s say Davies earns £20k per week that would equate to him already contributing around £469k in ni and tax. 
But when it comes to his pension planning for the rest of his life he’s going to need around most people now looking for a comfortable retirement are looking to save around £1 million for 20-30 year retirement. For him to pay for that as well as the next 30 years supplemental income he’s probably going to need almost £4 million considering the lack of tax efficient wrappers available to him.

he’s probably earned around 6/7 million net over his career, I mean I don’t feel sorry for  him by any means but I can certainly understand why they might be annoyed at people telling them to give up or defer their wages. 

Short sighted? Coming from the person who looks at tax revenue from players without considering any the wider implications of the extortionate wages they earn.

The more, the better. What's the harm, ey?

What does it matter that football now utterly unsustainable? What does it matter that working people are being priced out of the game as ticket prices spike year on year? What does it matter that vampiric agents and media moguls will keep driving this until there's nothing left? Sod it, let's just sit back and look forward to the days when a Championship player becomes the first to break £150,000 a week.

I said that I wasn't taking a swipe at footballers in general - I appreciate the fact that many of them have pledged support for the NHS and support charities. You completely ignored the part of my response where I made that clear. 

It's your argument that is setting them apart - I want them to be treated the same as everyone else. Other people who have been furloughed during this period have had part of their wages deferred. 

Your point seems to be that their wages shouldn't be part-deferred because they earn so much more and therefore need to save much more? It just doesn't make sense to me.

As a fan of this club, surely it concerns you that the club is going to be in financial dire straits after this? 

[sage]

https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2020/04/Derby-county-launches-stay-safe-stay-fit-stay-connected

Not a deferment yet but a launch of a community programme from the club. 

[europia]

I don't think Matt Hancock had taken soundings from the chancellor Rishi Sunak prior to his clumsy comment about PL Footballer wages. Fairly sure that HMRC prefer high earners who pay a lot of tax, to keep on doing so......

[DCFC27]

15 hours ago, EulogyForEvolution said:

Short sighted? Coming from the person who looks at tax revenue from players without considering any the wider implications of the extortionate wages they earn.

The more, the better. What's the harm, ey?

What does it matter that football now utterly unsustainable? What does it matter that working people are being priced out of the game as ticket prices spike year on year? What does it matter that vampiric agents and media moguls will keep driving this until there's nothing left? Sod it, let's just sit back and look forward to the days when a Championship player becomes the first to break £150,000 a week.

I said that I wasn't taking a swipe at footballers in general - I appreciate the fact that many of them have pledged support for the NHS and support charities. You completely ignored the part of my response where I made that clear. 

It's your argument that is setting them apart - I want them to be treated the same as everyone else. Other people who have been furloughed during this period have had part of their wages deferred. 

Your point seems to be that their wages shouldn't be part-deferred because they earn so much more and therefore need to save much more? It just doesn't make sense to me.

As a fan of this club, surely it concerns you that the club is going to be in financial dire straits after this? 

Yes short sighted. 
It’s not the footballers that determine what they get paid. It’s ultimately down to the people that pay the wages and pay the clubs. 
I’ve said for a while Sky should be stipulating that the money they pay should now be passed to the fans by reducing prices right down to £10 a game etc. 
But as this started it shouldn’t be up to the players to have their wages deferred etc one for the loss of income to the revenue, you can’t just impose a blanket over all players what should happen is to allow them to help the clubs and nhs etc as to how they see affordable. 
 

[ramit]

Most folks are taking a financial hit during these time.  If our footballers feel they should be exempt from that, they are delusional.  The club is in real financial peril, if they care nothing for it's survival, then their future at the club should be considered.

[i-Ram]

£5k will be greatly welcomed I am sure, but isn’t this a pretty poor response from our highly paid heroes?

#DCFC have made a major food donation to the city's relief effort at Pride Park Stadium. £5,000 worth of food, funded by Phillip Cocu, directors, first-team coaching staff, players and other staff will be distributed across the city's 10 food hubs for those most in need.

[Rev]

19 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

£5k will be greatly welcomed I am sure, but isn’t this a pretty poor response from our highly paid heroes?

#DCFC have made a major food donation to the city's relief effort at Pride Park Stadium. £5,000 worth of food, funded by Phillip Cocu, directors, first-team coaching staff, players and other staff will be distributed across the city's 10 food hubs for those most in need.

I guess other staff are not the ones who've been furloughed, but are still helping?

[i-Ram]

12 minutes ago, reverendo de duivel said:

I guess other staff are not the ones who've been furloughed, but are still helping?

 Not sure buddy, but as a headline figure £5k strikes me as a pretty lame gesture.

[Mucker1884]

9 hours ago, i-Ram said:

 Not sure buddy, but as a headline figure £5k strikes me as a pretty lame gesture.

This is from individuals isn't it?... not DCFC as a club/business?

"...funded by Phillip Cocu, directors, first-team coaching staff, players and other staff..." 

Are we to start poo-poohing charitable donations (and actions) from individuals as being derisory now?

How does my £18.84 donation to our own dcfcfans food bank thing measure up?  Shall we all compare who donated what, and make fun of the lowest?

[i-Ram]

1 hour ago, Mucker1884 said:

This is from individuals isn't it?... not DCFC as a club/business?

"...funded by Phillip Cocu, directors, first-team coaching staff, players and other staff..." 

Are we to start poo-poohing charitable donations (and actions) from individuals as being derisory now?

How does my £18.84 donation to our own dcfcfans food bank thing measure up?  Shall we all compare who donated what, and make fun of the lowest?

Mucker my old mucker you can choose to do what you like.

You are right I would think that this is an individual thing.  I have no knowledge of the Club making any donation, but perhaps a loan is required before they can do that ?

As for making fun of individuals who donate, give me a break. You very well know the point I am making.  As far as we know, and this is due principally to Morris maintaining radio silence, the club are still paying (or having to pay) the players and key staff their huge wages, but have furloughed the non playing (lowest paid) staff (perhaps not even topping up their 20% shortfall). The latter I think is a poor state of affairs if true.

l also stick by my opinion that £5k is a pretty lame collective contribution if player wages are c£2 to £2.5 million per month.  

[David]

@i-Ram The article does say

The first major donation of food has arrived at Pride Park Stadium as part of Derby County’s ‘Stay Safe. Stay Fit. Stay Connected.’ project to help the city’s Covid-19 relief effort.

and 

“This is the first of an ongoing commitment to donate food to the relief effort. We are doing everything we can through a range of activities to support the communities we serve and this sizeable donation will help ensure food gets to those who most need it. “

Reads to me like there is more to come. 

[Mucker1884]

2 hours ago, i-Ram said:

Mucker my old mucker you can choose to do what you like.

You are right I would think that this is an individual thing.  I have no knowledge of the Club making any donation, but perhaps a loan is required before they can do that ?

As for making fun of individuals who donate, give me a break. You very well know the point I am making.  As far as we know, and this is due principally to Morris maintaining radio silence, the club are still paying (or having to pay) the players and key staff their huge wages, but have furloughed the non playing (lowest paid) staff (perhaps not even topping up their 20% shortfall). The latter I think is a poor state of affairs if true.

l also stick by my opinion that £5k is a pretty lame collective contribution if player wages are c£2 to £2.5 million per month.  

Can't disagree with any of that... apart from the last line, which was the whole point of my previous response. 
However, there was no mention of furloughing, lack of 20% top ups etc in the (your) post I quoted, so no, I did not "very well know the point you were making", other than the sole point you made regarding "a lame contribution", to which I quoted in full, and responded.

Regardless of whether this is likely to be a one off donation, or a regular occurrence each pay day, I just see it as "unhealthy" to be judging the size of others' charitable donations.

Like you say, it's all about opinions, so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this particular subject... not that that's a problem, of course.  Quite the contrary, in fact.

?