F1 2020

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

The thing is, F1 can be exciting under the current regulations, look at the two GP's we had in Austria they were both fantastic.

The tyers need looking at and the new regulations (which annoyingly got bumped due to COVID) will hopefully help liven things up, but certain tracks also need looking at. Some of them are so tight and overtaking is so difficult that these types of races can be unavoidable.

[Remy the hare]

5 hours ago, JoetheRam said:

Very true - plus there's like 6 or 7 more races per season now so a dominant car will reap more wins now than a dominant car did over a 15 or 16 race season.

Only thing I will say which counters the effects of this somewhat in Hamilton's favour is that Schumacher's team mates were largely subservient/not very good with a couple of exceptions when he was not at his peak (very early or very late in his career) whereas Hamilton has been paired with Alonso, Button and Rosberg who are all WDC's and all had equal treatment to Hamilton, so that's got to be worth a few wins per season. 

Pointless comparing though because there's so many different parameters you could come up with a million different reasons why one is better than the other.

I think you can only judge by era and Hamilton would be the best of the 2010's in most people's eyes.

Yes some very good points in your post, especially more racers + dominated car = more wins. To counteract the Schumacher teammate argument yes he was an  manipulating, ignorant and selfish so and so, but he won both the 94 and 95 seasons in the second best car in the field, especially in 94 (ok he knocked Hill off in Adelaide and Senna’s death contributed to this) with a Ford v8 engine against at the time the mighty Williams Renault v10. 
Also Schumacher was a massive part of the rebuilding of the Scuderia and even the modern day Merc team, Hamilton on the other hand did just walk in (ironically into Schumacher’s seat) and hit the ground running from 2013 onwards.  

Don’t get me wrong Hamilton is the best over the last 10 years but I just get sick of David Croft ramming the greatness stats down your throat of Hamilton’s recording breaking constantly. 

[Remy the hare]

6 hours ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

The thing is, F1 can be exciting under the current regulations, look at the two GP's we had in Austria they were both fantastic.

The tyers need looking at and the new regulations (which annoyingly got bumped due to COVID) will hopefully help liven things up, but certain tracks also need looking at. Some of them are so tight and overtaking is so difficult that these types of races can be unavoidable.

Yes roll on 2022 when ground effect cars will be back ?

[Remy the hare]

6 hours ago, Srg said:

Used to love F1 as a kid, watching every Sunday. Watched my first full race in years last week as it got so dull with pole = win. All this managing tyre nonsense to make up for no overtaking is so dull. It hasn't dragged me back. Only thing it's good for is watching the first corner in case there's a fun crash and then sleeping until the last lap to see the pole sitter win, unless his tyres don't last.

I’m the same to be honest, in the 80’s and 90’s I was glued to the tv Saturday and Sunday afternoons race weekends. Went to Silverstone numerous years and even donnington in the rain in 93. But Kids came along early in 00’s and lost the love for it. Then I stumbled into it again last year for the 1000 gp in China and all the old clips got the nostalgia for me and got me back into it. 
It isn’t the same though (in my opinion) as 30 years ago as tyre management seems to be the name of the game, but I do find Max Verstappen a lot more interesting than his dad ever was. 

[TomBustler1884]

Used to watch the occasional race. Watched on Saturday and it was really quite boring.

I didn't recognise many of the drivers either. Have a load of big names just retired or something? I only really recognised Hamilton, Verstappen, Vettel, Raikkonen and Grosjean.

[Remy the hare]

On 17/08/2020 at 19:39, TomBustler1884 said:

Used to watch the occasional race. Watched on Saturday and it was really quite boring.

I didn't recognise many of the drivers either. Have a load of big names just retired or something? I only really recognised Hamilton, Verstappen, Vettel, Raikkonen and Grosjean.

Errmm yes Jackie Stewart retired in 1974, Nikki Lauda in 1986, Prost in 1993, Mansell in 1995 and Schumacher in 2013 (the second time around). Have I missed anyone?

[Sith Happens]

On 17/08/2020 at 19:39, TomBustler1884 said:

Used to watch the occasional race. Watched on Saturday and it was really quite boring.

I didn't recognise many of the drivers either. Have a load of big names just retired or something? I only really recognised Hamilton, Verstappen, Vettel, Raikkonen and Grosjean.

I would imagine it was considering the race took place Sunday ???

[TomBustler1884]

Thanks @Paul71 and @Remy the hare, hadnt realised this thread was the pedantry thread, I'll not bother again!

[Remy the hare]

2 hours ago, TomBustler1884 said:

Thanks @Paul71 and @Remy the hare, hadnt realised this thread was the pedantry thread, I'll not bother again!

Sorry @TomBustler1884? I couldn’t help it ?

[Duracell]

On 16/08/2020 at 18:02, Remy the hare said:

I don’t get the hype comparisons with Hamilton to Schumacher’s records? Likewise I don’t understand comparing Schumacher to Senna or Prost records? The F1 cars in the last 10 years have become super super super reliable due to technological advances. In the 80’s, 90’s and even 00’s sometimes only half dozen cars would finish a race. Hamilton’s last DNF was over 2 years ago! It isn’t apples for apples.
Don’t believe the hype!

That's not the whole truth. Part of the reason why Senna and Prost had such outstanding records is that their cars were often the most reliable. In 1989, McLaren won every single race bar one where they crashed into each other. 

Furthermore, the top racers in the 1950s rarely retired with mechanical failure as mechanical sympathy to the car was part of the skill set.

You are completely right that comparing eras directly doesn't work, but all the same, Hamilton is every bit in the same league as Schumacher and Senna. Murray Walker recently said he's better than either of them.

Some of his laps are absolutely stunning. He's had some incredibly talented team-mates - he's never had a true number 2 along side him - driving out of their skin and still he can find an extra half a second that no one else can. The great drivers are separated from the good drivers because they correct a slide before it comes, take a line through a corner no one else can and read the conditions on the circuit like a picture book. Hamilton has all three in bucket loads.

 

[Duracell]

On 17/08/2020 at 19:39, TomBustler1884 said:

Used to watch the occasional race. Watched on Saturday and it was really quite boring.

I didn't recognise many of the drivers either. Have a load of big names just retired or something? I only really recognised Hamilton, Verstappen, Vettel, Raikkonen and Grosjean.

I'd give it another go - yes, up front, Mercs are running away with it, but behind there's some real entertainment. The previous 4 Grand Prix were oustanding.

The fun comes from watching the new superstars from through. Leclerc, Sainz, Ricciardo and Norris have more personality in their little finger than Raikkonen has in his entire being. 

Barcelona has also always been a boring track - the last exciting race there was 1996.

[Spanish]

On 17/08/2020 at 18:02, Remy the hare said:

Yes some very good points in your post, especially more racers + dominated car = more wins. To counteract the Schumacher teammate argument yes he was an  manipulating, ignorant and selfish so and so, but he won both the 94 and 95 seasons in the second best car in the field, especially in 94 (ok he knocked Hill off in Adelaide and Senna’s death contributed to this) with a Ford v8 engine against at the time the mighty Williams Renault v10. 
Also Schumacher was a massive part of the rebuilding of the Scuderia and even the modern day Merc team, Hamilton on the other hand did just walk in (ironically into Schumacher’s seat) and hit the ground running from 2013 onwards.  

Don’t get me wrong Hamilton is the best over the last 10 years but I just get sick of David Croft ramming the greatness stats down your throat of Hamilton’s recording breaking constantly. 

I recall a poster on here saying that Hamilton had abandoned all hope of being a champion by taking the money to drive for a poor team

[Leicester Ram]

Highly recommend watching the F1 documentary on Netflix before tuning into races this season.

Excellent series that follows all the teams, gives you a sense for the personalities and politics with some pretty unfiltered behind he scenes footage. I’m think of a scene in particular when a big name driver left a big name team for a far smaller team (no spoilers) and it showed the two teams directors trading passive aggressive insults with each other just after it had been announced. Was a real fly on the wall moment, brilliant tv.

I hadn’t paid attention to F1 in years until I saw it, now I tune in to the highlights every week. I think I’d enjoy watching a full race but I don’t have Sky at the moment, highlights on Sunday night are a good starting point though if you can avoid the result all day.

 

[Sith Happens]

5 hours ago, Duracell said:

That's not the whole truth. Part of the reason why Senna and Prost had such outstanding records is that their cars were often the most reliable. In 1989, McLaren won every single race bar one where they crashed into each other. 

Furthermore, the top racers in the 1950s rarely retired with mechanical failure as mechanical sympathy to the car was part of the skill set.

You are completely right that comparing eras directly doesn't work, but all the same, Hamilton is every bit in the same league as Schumacher and Senna. Murray Walker recently said he's better than either of them.

Some of his laps are absolutely stunning. He's had some incredibly talented team-mates - he's never had a true number 2 along side him - driving out of their skin and still he can find an extra half a second that no one else can. The great drivers are separated from the good drivers because they correct a slide before it comes, take a line through a corner no one else can and read the conditions on the circuit like a picture book. Hamilton has all three in bucket loads.

 

I think you are right, all bar Button who was very much his equal in the Mclaren. That was a good example of when not having a number 2 can cost you the WDC as Vettel had a number 2 but Button and Hamilton allowed to race.

 

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

This is why Hamilton is different gravy. Wet conditions and he's 1.2 seconds quicker than anyone else on the track. Best car or not that is unbelievable. 1.2 seconds might as well be 9 years in F1 terms.

People who refuse to accept Hamilton as one of the greats either have no idea what they are on about, or they do and they can't look past their own dislike of the man and accept what he is.

[Remy the hare]

Hamilton on another level in qualifying. Let’s hope it rains for the sake of F1 tomorrow afternoon in Spa ?
Ferrari’s demise is shocking. 

[Remy the hare]

On 21/08/2020 at 09:46, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

This is why Hamilton is different gravy. Wet conditions and he's 1.2 seconds quicker than anyone else on the track. Best car or not that is unbelievable. 1.2 seconds might as well be 9 years in F1 terms.

People who refuse to accept Hamilton as one of the greats either have no idea what they are on about, or they do and they can't look past their own dislike of the man and accept what he is.

But their is nothing to dislike about Hamilton? He’s humble, honest, articulate and fast. It’s not his fault David Croft and co just go on and on about his record breaking. I just don’t think u can compare  Lewis’ record breaking career with the likes of Schumacher, Senna, Prost, etc.  Different era now with heaps better technology. More races + more reliable cars = records broken. 

[TigerTedd]

1 hour ago, Remy the hare said:

But their is nothing to dislike about Hamilton? He’s humble, honest, articulate and fast. It’s not his fault David Croft and co just go on and on about his record breaking. I just don’t think u can compare  Lewis’ record breaking career with the likes of Schumacher, Senna, Prost, etc.  Different era now with heaps better technology. More races + more reliable cars = records broken. 

He is a conspiracy theorist anti vaxer, so there’s that. 

[Comrade 86]

Unreal race right there and Gasly who hase been flying in recent races secures the win. Hamilton desperately unlucky of course and showed why he's the man to beat as he carved his way back through the pack but all plaudits to the young Frenchie today. Amazing drive. Reverse grid quali anyone? 

[Sith Happens]

Really wanted Sainz to get past as would love to see McLaren back to their best.

Mercedes blunder to bring Hamilton in but good fun watching him, just proves he is so much better than Bottas who really should have done better today, Hamilton finished just 10 seconds behind Bottas having been dumped 30 seconds down with less than half the race to go.

No way should he have got await with maintaining the points gap omn his championship lead today.

Nothing boring about that today,