DarkFruitsRam7 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 24 minutes ago, TommyPowell said: it is if the team below you needs to gain 4 points to over take your league position.For example with 2 games left in the season forest are 3 points behind Derby but an inferior goal difference,to over take the Rams they would have to get 4 points to have any chance of over taking us.so effectively our superior goal difference is worth an extra point.If however thet had the superior goal difference they would only need to get the same results as Derbt to finish ahead of them. God this is like explaining the offside rule to a non football fan First of all, that’s not the scenario from which the issue arose, so it’s irrelevant. I’ll play along anyway. What if Derby got no points from the two games and Forest got 4, resulting in Derby finishing one point behind Forest? Would Derby’s superior goal difference be worth a point in that situation? Of course it wouldn’t, as you can’t make up a 1-point deficit purely through goal difference. Again, it would essentially be worth half a point (or any other value between 0 and 1), as it wouldn’t be enough to close a 1-point gap but it would be the difference maker if the points were level. If you’re going to make a patronising remark at the end, at least make sure you’re correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyPowell Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 I am not being patronizing i am trying to explain to you how the saying that goal difference is worth a point and this is my last try. 2 matches of the season left teams A and B have the same number of points,but team A has a superior goal difference the possible outcomes are A wins both games and wins the league A loses both games B wins the league but is A wins one and draws one what does B have to do to win the league? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbles Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 52 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: First of all, that’s not the scenario from which the issue arose, so it’s irrelevant. I’ll play along anyway. What if Derby got no points from the two games and Forest got 4, resulting in Derby finishing one point behind Forest? Would Derby’s superior goal difference be worth a point in that situation? Of course it wouldn’t, as you can’t make up a 1-point deficit purely through goal difference. Again, it would essentially be worth half a point (or any other value between 0 and 1), as it wouldn’t be enough to close a 1-point gap but it would be the difference maker if the points were level. If you’re going to make a patronising remark at the end, at least make sure you’re correct. 1 minute ago, TommyPowell said: I am not being patronizing i am trying to explain to you how the saying that goal difference is worth a point and this is my last try. 2 matches of the season left teams A and B have the same number of points,but team A has a superior goal difference the possible outcomes are A wins both games and wins the league A loses both games B wins the league but is A wins one and draws one what does B have to do to win the league? off your rockers, the pair of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 This is an insane discussion. For what it's worth, the saying is it's worth a point but the very real reality is it's worth 0.5 points. Team A is on the same points as Team B, but Team A has a better goal difference. Team C is one place and one point above. This does not then put Team A on the same level as Team C, it firmly puts them in between Team C and Team B, hence only worth half a point. It's for similar reasons, in betting terms, you bet on on Over/Under 2.5 Goals, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 15 minutes ago, TommyPowell said: I am not being patronizing i am trying to explain to you how the saying that goal difference is worth a point and this is my last try. 2 matches of the season left teams A and B have the same number of points,but team A has a superior goal difference the possible outcomes are A wins both games and wins the league A loses both games B wins the league but is A wins one and draws one what does B have to do to win the league? B would have to win both, as you know. If B won one and drew one, the superior GD would act as the differentiating factor. It just so happens that, in this extremely specific situation, the ‘worth an extra point’ line wouldn’t be proven false. However, the ‘worth an extra half a point’ line would also work and, unlike the ‘full point’ line, is accurate in 100% of situations (I and others have already explained where the ‘full point’ line fails, so not going over it again). As other posters have said, there’s barely any point in discussing it. This just started as me being a grumpy, pedantic Bamford trying to point out a common misconception. Let’s leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 1 hour ago, TommyPowell said: it is if the team below you needs to gain 4 points to over take your league position.For example with 2 games left in the season forest are 3 points behind Derby but an inferior goal difference,to over take the Rams they would have to get 4 points to have any chance of over taking us.so effectively our superior goal difference is worth an extra point.If however thet had the superior goal difference they would only need to get the same results as Derbt to finish ahead of them. God this is like explaining the offside rule to a non football fan Much easier just to say Goal difference only counts when 2 teams are tied on the same points. and if they are still both same, I think the next splitter is goals scored, then results against each other ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 This is even more ridiculous than some of my arguments on here! GD has an effective points value on the interval (0,1). It does not have a value of 1, otherwise a team one point behind another team would become level with that team if they have the superior goal difference, which isn’t the case in reality. Any other value greater than 0 is valid, as it “effectively” splits the two level teams into the team with the higher GD finishing higher, which is exactly what GD does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve How Hard? Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 @DarkFruitsRam7 what have you done? Good luck getting the lid back on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 9 hours ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: We're not talking literally though are we? Of course there aren't half points awarded, but it's closer to the truth than saying a good GD is worth an extra point. There's no 'extra point' awarded for having the best goal difference, otherwise it would allow a team one point behind to catch up the team ahead simply because of a better goal difference. The only way of describing a vastly superior goal difference is by giving it a value of anything between 0 and 1 points, as that wouldn't allow a team to catch a team who's ahead of them, but it would differentiate them if they were level. It's a pointless discussion, but I just hate it when people say that their excellent goal difference 'basically gives us an extra point' because it simply isn't true. @Carl Sagan, please tell me I'm on the right lines. Goal difference has zero points value Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 36 minutes ago, Millenniumram said: This is even more ridiculous than some of my arguments on here! GD has an effective points value on the interval (0,1). It does not have a value of 1, otherwise a team one point behind another team would become level with that team if they have the superior goal difference, which isn’t the case in reality. Any other value greater than 0 is valid, as it “effectively” splits the two level teams into the team with the higher GD finishing higher, which is exactly what GD does. That’s an awfully mathsy way of saying I’m bang on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve How Hard? Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 7 minutes ago, Archied said: Goal difference has zero points value Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 41 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: That’s an awfully mathsy way of saying I’m bang on. Yeah, for once on here you’re right? To be fair, I’ve written it in that way to lay a trap that I’m waiting on someone to fall into Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 20 minutes ago, Millenniumram said: Yeah, for once on here you’re right? To be fair, I’ve written it in that way to lay a trap that I’m waiting on someone to fall into Alright I cannot resist. It's not a value on (0,1). It's probably best described as a value on (0,x) where is is the difference in points to the next highest team, or infinity if you finish top of the table on goal difference. But I can't be arsed to recall how you write that logic in mathematical notation. I'm going to have to consult my 1937 edition of the theory of numbers by Hardy and Wright......? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimmu Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 If A1 = B1, calculate GD = 0 > 1. Execute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ossieram Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taribo Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Can someone explain the offside rule to me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ossieram Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, Taribo said: Can someone explain the offside rule to me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 11 minutes ago, Taribo said: Can someone explain the offside rule to me? If a goal is awarded but then ruled out by VAR for offside, it's worth half a goal. That way, if it's a draw, supporters of the team that 'scored' can still claim they won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Van der MoodHoover said: Alright I cannot resist. It's not a value on (0,1). It's probably best described as a value on (0,x) where is is the difference in points to the next highest team, or infinity if you finish top of the table on goal difference. But I can't be arsed to recall how you write that logic in mathematical notation. I'm going to have to consult my 1937 edition of the theory of numbers by Hardy and Wright......? Not quite what I was expecting, but yes, you’re quite right. I didn’t even think that far into it, almost getting philosophical now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atherstoneram Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 I can't wait until the the league table shows the Seventh placed team finishing half a point behind the Sixth placed team ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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