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To all the moaners....


IslandExile

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33 minutes ago, Srg said:

Literally just been through this. You don’t agree, that’s fine. You’re wrong, but it’s fine. You do you. 

I am just trying to see where you are coming from.

I am not sure why you had to take such a dismissive tone.

And people wonder why the forum is so tense. No one seems willing to have a friendly exchange of views anymore.

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6 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

I am just trying to see where you are coming from.

I am not sure why you had to take such a dismissive tone.

And people wonder why the forum is so tense. No one seems willing to have a friendly exchange of views anymore.

I’ve explained myself. Look through my posts, I’ve been here long enough and so have you. You simply rate our players a lot higher than I do, with that air of superiority that because we are Derby we deserve to be at the top of the league. Your stance is well known and unwavering on this forum, little point in debating with you. It’s like trying to tell Valley Ram that Bryson was past it. 

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5 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

Key theme in all of that is expectations....the biggest cause for frustration this season is supporters internal expectations.....we should be doing better than this, we should be at least be in the Top 6, Cocu should be getting more out of the players he has at his disposal than he is etc etc 

You've set your own internal bar relatively lowly this season (in my opinion) which is stay in the same division and have the same manager next year, probably given our turnover of managers then the second isn't maybe such a low expectation after all. 

Managing supporters expectations probably is the biggest thing the club has fallen foul of this year and I don't envy them one bit in that respect but ultimately it's something the club needs to be acutely aware of and react and respond accordingly.

Tbf to the fans it starts from the top 

in previous seasons when u have a chairman that’s been sacking managers for only being 5th or whatever it was with clement or another for just missing out on the playoffs or whatever it was that itself creates expectations within the fan base by delivering the message that failure will not be tolerated 

we have as a club have created this High bar 

Your right my bar is low 

I still want to see progress and development which is when Iv got frustrated as my bench Mark is seeing players improve on the basics which at times this season hasn’t happened 

 

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26 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

Tbf to the fans it starts from the top 

in previous seasons when u have a chairman that’s been sacking managers for only being 5th or whatever it was with clement or another for just missing out on the playoffs or whatever it was that itself creates expectations within the fan base by delivering the message that failure will not be tolerated 

we have as a club have created this High bar 

Your right my bar is low 

I still want to see progress and development which is when Iv got frustrated as my bench Mark is seeing players improve on the basics which at times this season hasn’t happened 

 

Am glad you said that as I was going to postulate the same thing...how much pressure is Morris under from the fans when they are unhappy and the casual supporters drift away along with their gate receipt money......how much of an expectation now is there at the club that Morris has created that if a manager fails to get us as a minimum into the playoffs then it's time to start looking for another one 

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22 minutes ago, Srg said:

I’ve explained myself. Look through my posts, I’ve been here long enough and so have you. You simply rate our players a lot higher than I do, with that air of superiority that because we are Derby we deserve to be at the top of the league. Your stance is well known and unwavering on this forum, little point in debating with you. It’s like trying to tell Valley Ram that Bryson was past it. 

I don’t think I have ever said we have a divine right to be at the top. But usually the cream rises. 

I rate our players based on what they have done in a Derby shirt. We have finished in the play offs in four of the last seven seasons, so there is a solid basis for confidence in this existing group of players, many of whom have shown themselves to be good Championship players who can compete at the right end of the table.

As with any squad and any manager, I have always asked myself if we could be doing better and if so, why aren’t we?

This discussion reminds me of Clough’s time in charge. People had similar differences of opinion back then. Some people thought the players simply weren’t good enough and others thought the manager was the problem.

Time will tell. It’ll be interesting to observe how our poor squad matches up to Blackburn, Millwall and Preston in the upcoming matches.

If we are handily beaten by these superior sides, I will accept that you are right and it’s the players holding Cocu back.

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6 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

I don’t think I have ever said we have a divine right to be at the top. But usually the cream rises. 

I rate our players based on what they have done in a Derby shirt. We have finished in the play offs in four of the last seven seasons, so there is a solid basis for confidence in this existing group of players, many of whom have shown themselves to be good Championship players who can compete at the right end of the table.

As with any squad and any manager, I have always asked myself if we could be doing better and if so, why aren’t we?

This discussion reminds me of Clough’s time in charge. People had similar differences of opinion back then. Some people thought the players simply weren’t good enough and others thought the manager was the problem.

Time will tell. It’ll be interesting to observe how our poor squad matches up to Blackburn, Millwall and Preston in the upcoming matches.

If we are handily beaten by these superior sides, I will accept that you are right and it’s the players holding Cocu back.

That notion right there is the biggest problem we have in our fan base, beyond the fact there’s a portion that think we have a divine right to be good and another portion who since Mac1 think everything is poo. 

That notion is the fact that because a player has done it for a month, 6 months or a season that somehow they’re still that player right now. 

Take Martin for example. Brilliant for us under Mac, iffy under every other manager between then and did nothing away from us. Comes back, in his 30s and managing a debilitating illness. Different player... flashes of it, but he’s not the same. Forsyth? Multiple ACLs, not the same player. 2 years, let alone 5 are lifetimes in modern football.

The modern game is more about athleticism, pace and power than it’s ever been. And whilst there’s always going to be room for the odd player who hasn’t got all that but is a genius on the ball - like Rooney - you can’t base a team on them like we’ve had to at times this year because you don’t get very far. 

For what it’s worth, I see somewhere between the 3 and 6 points out of those 3 games. 

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On 06/03/2020 at 05:42, ossieram said:

And how many of that full house will be there on Sunday? I know for a fact that people where there last night who's last match was at Wembley and won't bother again this season. Well screw them. I knew as soon as I saw the starting line up that we would lose, but I also knew as sooon as I saw the mancs line up that we would probably lose no matter who started. The young lads played well and I actually enjoyed watching them fight for us and gain experience that will stand them in good stead in the future.

absolutely spot on mate

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11 minutes ago, Srg said:

That notion right there is the biggest problem we have in our fan base, beyond the fact there’s a portion that think we have a divine right to be good and another portion who since Mac1 think everything is poo. 

That notion is the fact that because a player has done it for a month, 6 months or a season that somehow they’re still that player right now. 

Take Martin for example. Brilliant for us under Mac, iffy under every other manager between then and did nothing away from us. Comes back, in his 30s and managing a debilitating illness. Different player... flashes of it, but he’s not the same. Forsyth? Multiple ACLs, not the same player. 2 years, let alone 5 are lifetimes in modern football.

The modern game is more about athleticism, pace and power than it’s ever been. And whilst there’s always going to be room for the odd player who hasn’t got all that but is a genius on the ball - like Rooney - you can’t base a team on them like we’ve had to at times this year because you don’t get very far. 

For what it’s worth, I see somewhere between the 3 and 6 points out of those 3 games. 

Those qualities are important, I agree. We can see that in the difference between before Holmes got injured and now. But I think it’s all about finding a balance. You can’t have a team of Chris Martins, nor a team of Theo Robinsons.

Now if you had said we had a good but unbalanced squad, I’d be right there with you. But surely working in the Championship, a manager understands rarely will he achieve the perfect balance on a typical budget for this division, and he has to get the best out of what he has got. So let’s see where we end up.

Of course players can and do decline over time. But when played in their natural positions, both Martin and Forsyth have shown that they still have more than enough to offer at this level.

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