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42 minutes ago, Archied said:

I personaly don’t understand, if there’s one area of following the science that you do it’s administer the vaccine in the way it’s researched and recommended by the manufacturer, it’s way too big a gamble to do otherwise , you could end up wasting a massive amount of time and money for a whole heap of next to nothing and alienate an already uncertain public against vaccine 🤷🏻‍♂️

They're gambling that some protection for many people is better than greater protection for fewer. I broadly agree with you on this though. 

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2 hours ago, Albert said:

Source on me calling it an 'absolute failure'? If not, I await your apology. 

 

now you are just being pedantic and silly,  you know full well you immediately posted to say you weren't surprised its gone wrong with no facts to support it. you may not have used those exact words of course but you are just deflecting. 

As others have said no point in discussing stuff with you. 

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4 minutes ago, Sith Happens said:

now you are just being pedantic and silly,  you know full well you immediately posted to say you weren't surprised its gone wrong with no facts to support it. you may not have used those exact words of course but you are just deflecting. 

As others have said no point in discussing stuff with you. 

So, after demanding what was essentially a retraction for something I did not say, you're now failing to take responsibility and not apologising for your mistake? Lovely hypocrisy mate. The irony is, of course, that you're the one who was deflecting with such comments in the first place. 

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12 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

I'm afraid too many people have got used to a society that will fund their lives, its nothing new, guess the furlough scheme is just the latest part of it.

This. There are millions of people who have been denied support from the government as the arbitrary dates for furlough eligibility set has excluded them through no fault of their own.

Cunningly the government have distanced themselves from this and placed the ultimate decision on the employer to decide whether they furlough a member of staff or not. 

The amount of distasteful comments I've seen showing no empathy whatsover from the people who are fortunate enough to receive furlough towards this group is obscene yet these same people would moan like drains if they weren't getting what they thought was their slice of the pie. 

Makes me realise what a horrible country we live in now.

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2 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

This. There are millions of people who have been denied support from the government as the arbitrary dates for furlough eligibility set has excluded them through no fault of their own.

Cunningly the government have distanced themselves from this and placed the ultimate decision on the employer to decide whether they furlough a member of staff or not. 

The amount of distasteful comments I've seen showing no empathy whatsover from the people who are fortunate enough to receive furlough towards this group is obscene yet these same people would moan like drains if they weren't getting what they thought was their slice of the pie. 

Makes me realise what a horrible country we live in now.

Heard somebody say ,,,if your cold don’t expect sympathy from someone who is warm , also how many people who claim the moral high ground are more than happy to order and have delivered stuff they enjoy but are far from essential not caring that that stuff has to processed, packed by workers , handed to delivery drivers with drivers in transit and delivering to many doors ,, may not be breaking the rules but very much in the my poo don’t smell but I’m gonna call everybody else out 

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   On 22/11/2020 at 19:40,  Eddie said: 

Just opened our first BIAB order for a while (two arrived on Friday - opened one today and will leave the other one for a few days yet).

I too was the recipient of a prezzy - a 75 cl bottle of Gulden Draak Brewmaster 2019.

He must be desperate to keep my custom.

============== =============================================================

Wow Eddie, obviously not breaking any rules but with your stance on covidiot s im really surprised you would put people at risk special ordering  ( from abroad?) with all the dangers that puts workers and drivers in ,something so non essential and self gratifying as foreign BEER ????? , personally no problem with it but maybe takes some padding from under the saddle of a high horse in the spirit of doing all we can to not put others lives at risk.

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30 minutes ago, EtoileSportiveDeDerby said:

BMA does not seem convinced with the plan to space out the 2 doses by 12 weeks. We seem to be the only country to go ahead with this, it just feels like another roll of the dice. Unfortunately if it does not land properly It might be a costly gamble.

It's the scurge of modern society (and politics in particular) that statistics and the associated league tables rule above everything else.

Ultimately Hancock wants to be able to crow about the number of people who've had the vacine so is pushing ahead with giving the first dose to as many as possible even if it means those people aren't as well protected as they should be.

We can 'proudly' state that we're 3rd in the world league table when looking at the percentage of the populalation who've been given the vacine - ignoring the fact that those countries with lower percentage rates may well have done a far better job of protecting their most vulnerable citizens by following the guidelines properly. Still it's only the lives of a few old or sick folk they're gambling with so nothing serious to worry about.....

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13 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

It's the scurge of modern society (and politics in particular) that statistics and the associated league tables rule above everything else.

Ultimately Hancock wants to be able to crow about the number of people who've had the vacine so is pushing ahead with giving the first dose to as many as possible even if it means those people aren't as well protected as they should be.

We can 'proudly' state that we're 3rd in the world league table when looking at the percentage of the populalation who've been given the vacine - ignoring the fact that those countries with lower percentage rates may well have done a far better job of protecting their most vulnerable citizens by following the guidelines properly. Still it's only the lives of a few old or sick folk they're gambling with so nothing serious to worry about.....

The league tables arent a percentage of the population, they are number of doses given per population. This is detailed on the graphs

'This is counted as a single dose, and may not equal the total number of people vaccinated, depending on the specific dose regime (e.g. people receive multiple doses).'

As someone who has shielded for more months of the past year than not (or at least thats how it seems) i really hope they have it right, if they get it wrong ill be shielding for months to come.

In fairness had the decision been made by hancock or johnson etc then i would have very grave concerns but the JCVI is independant and they made the decision to recommend we proceed on this basis, and it was signed off by all 4 of the countries of the UK Chief Medical Officers.

 

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Still a preprint, so worth being cautious with its findings, but this paper is quite worrisome and reflect the concerns raised on here earlier in the year. Research into the long term damage this disease can cause, and methods to support people with such conditions, could be vital in the coming decades. The health, and associated financial, costs of failing to control this virus could harm countries for the rest of our lifetimes. 

So glad staying open helped the economy so mu... oh. 

Edited by Albert
Typo
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1 hour ago, Tyler Durden said:

The amount of distasteful comments I've seen showing no empathy whatsover from the people who are fortunate enough to receive furlough towards this group is obscene yet these same people would moan like drains if they weren't getting what they thought was their slice of the pie. 

I assume you don't mean comments on here as I don't recall seeing any at all. It seems seems strange behaviour for a furloughed worker to make distasteful comments to someone who has been missed by the system. Where are these comments being made and what is the nature of them?

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44 minutes ago, Albert said:

Still a preprint, so worth being cautious with its findings, but this paper is quite worrisome and reflect the concerns raised on here earlier in the year. Research into the long term damage this disease can cause, and methods to support people with such conditions, could be vital in the coming decades. The health, and associated financial, costs of failing to control this virus could harm countries for the rest of our lifetimes. 

So glad staying open helped the economy so mu... oh. 

The paper is from patients being discharged on Aug 31st. I'm not disputing a non peer reviewed paper, however the more we understand about this virus the better we become at treating it.

Also not sure, whilst I agree that we should have made other corrective steps to tackle this, opening the economy, has got to do with this article.

Seems to me you seem to be doing a lot of fishing at the moment.

 

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10 minutes ago, BIllyD said:

The paper is from patients being discharged on Aug 31st. I'm not disputing a non peer reviewed paper, however the more we understand about this virus the better we become at treating it.

Also not sure, whilst I agree that we should have made other corrective steps to tackle this, opening the economy, has got to do with this article.

Seems to me you seem to be doing a lot of fishing at the moment.

 

The point is that as time is passing, more and more data is coming to light about the long term impacts of having this disease. The trade off of 'lives or the economy' was always a false one, with both being sacrificed by countries that used that as a base for conversation. The best strategy was always pushing the numbers to zero, and locking down borders, something which has been successfully achieved by many countries in vastly different circumstances from each other, but ones that never accepted that it was 'lives versus the economy'. 

As we know, the lockdowns did work earlier in the pandemic, and hence the tools did work to achieve such. However, with this all left to burn, and the numbers high enough to allow significant new variants to appear in various places, things have spiraled. I don't know, I guess my fear is around the lingering damage this pandemic will do to survivors, and how much this is going to cost society going forward. As has been seen though, it's been better for lives and livelihoods to control the virus, rather than 'live with it'. I hope the lessons learned will, at the very least, help future generations avoid the same fate. 

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1 minute ago, Albert said:

The point is that as time is passing, more and more data is coming to light about the long term impacts of having this disease. The trade off of 'lives or the economy' was always a false one, with both being sacrificed by countries that used that as a base for conversation. The best strategy was always pushing the numbers to zero, and locking down borders, something which has been successfully achieved by many countries in vastly different circumstances from each other, but ones that never accepted that it was 'lives versus the economy'. 

As we know, the lockdowns did work earlier in the pandemic, and hence the tools did work to achieve such. However, with this all left to burn, and the numbers high enough to allow significant new variants to appear in various places, things have spiraled. I don't know, I guess my fear is around the lingering damage this pandemic will do to survivors, and how much this is going to cost society going forward. As has been seen though, it's been better for lives and livelihoods to control the virus, rather than 'live with it'. I hope the lessons learned will, at the very least, help future generations avoid the same fate. 

As I said, I don't think anyone will argue with hindsight we should have done more

However as per my previous post, what has the article got to do with the economy.

Simple question, is a hospital patient being released in Australia any less likely to be at risk from post COVID complications than the rest of the world ?

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6 minutes ago, BIllyD said:

As I said, I don't think anyone will argue with hindsight we should have done more

However as per my previous post, what has the article got to do with the economy.

The argument that things needed to open up 'for the economy' is what lead to such high case loads. More cases mean a greater fraction of people will have such long term complications. Equally, there are economic considerations with long term health concerns, and this pre-print is one of many discussing such. It could take years, decades even, to get a full picture of the damage done, but if even a tiny fraction of people end up with long term conditions from having this disease, that could end up being a massive health, and hence, economic burden. 

6 minutes ago, BIllyD said:

Simple question, is a hospital patient being released in Australia any less likely to be at risk from post COVID complications than the rest of the world ?

A patient with Covid, I would suspect not. The point is that there is virtually no new cases in Australia, at least cases caught in Australia. There are still imported cases of course, but they are in quarantine. 

To put it in perspective, Australia has had 28,761 total cases, including imported cases, with 909 deaths. The UK has had 40,261 new cases, and 1,401 deaths, reported in the last 24 hours alone. Yes, the UK has a population over 2 and a half times Australia's, but the point is that these statistics reflect the number of people who are going to be having the complications that are being reported. Countries that never had high case loads will not have these same issues as countries which allowed it to spiral. The impacts could well stretch for decades to come. 

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Just now, Albert said:

The argument that things needed to open up 'for the economy' is what lead to such high case loads. More cases mean a greater fraction of people will have such long term complications. Equally, there are economic considerations with long term health concerns, and this pre-print is one of many discussing such. It could take years, decades even, to get a full picture of the damage done, but if even a tiny fraction of people end up with long term conditions from having this disease, that could end up being a massive health, and hence, economic burden. 

A patient with Covid, I would suspect not. The point is that there is virtually no new cases in Australia, at least cases caught in Australia. There are still imported cases of course, but they are in quarantine. 

To put it in perspective, Australia has had 28,761 total cases, including imported cases, with 909 deaths. The UK has had 40,261 new cases, and 1,401 deaths, reported in the last 24 hours alone. Yes, the UK has a population over 2 and a half times Australia's, but the point is that these statistics reflect the number of people who are going to be having the complications that are being reported. Countries that never had high case loads will not have these same issues as countries which allowed it to spiral. The impacts could well stretch for decades to come. 

You really didn't need to go into all that detail, I was only looking for a simple yes or no. 

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2 hours ago, Archied said:

Heard somebody say ,,,if your cold don’t expect sympathy from someone who is warm , also how many people who claim the moral high ground are more than happy to order and have delivered stuff they enjoy but are far from essential not caring that that stuff has to processed, packed by workers , handed to delivery drivers with drivers in transit and delivering to many doors ,, may not be breaking the rules but very much in the my poo don’t smell but I’m gonna call everybody else out 

So this is what prompted you to go whizzing off to the beer thread and attempt to pull me over the coals for ordering beer from Belgium last November. 

I had a Tesco order arrive on Thursday. The order has been unpacked, quarantined and cleaned as appropriate. Could you please tell me which of the following items I should not have ordered because they are putting other people's lives at risk...

  • Milk
  • Coffee
  • Minced beef
  • Chicken portions
  • Bleach
  • Tomatoes (chopped and fresh)
  • Cucumber
  • Romaine lettuce
  • Celery
  • Coconut milk
  • Carrots
  • Baby potatoes
  • Savoy cabbage
  • Spinach
  • Eggs
  • Butter
  • Cheese
  • Yoghurt
  • Pasta
  • Flour
  • Rice
  • Toothpaste
  • Washing up liquid
  • Freezer bags
  • Breadcrumbs
  • Kidney beans
  • Oregano
  • Fresh coriander
  • Saffron
  • Cider
  • Beer
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9 minutes ago, Eddie said:

So this is what prompted you to go whizzing off to the beer thread and attempt to pull me over the coals for ordering beer from Belgium last November. 

I had a Tesco order arrive on Thursday. The order has been unpacked, quarantined and cleaned as appropriate. Could you please tell me which of the following items I should not have ordered because they are putting other people's lives at risk...

  • Milk
  • Coffee
  • Minced beef
  • Chicken portions
  • Bleach
  • Tomatoes (chopped and fresh)
  • Cucumber
  • Romaine lettuce
  • Celery
  • Coconut milk
  • Carrots
  • Baby potatoes
  • Savoy cabbage
  • Spinach
  • Eggs
  • Butter
  • Cheese
  • Yoghurt
  • Pasta
  • Flour
  • Rice
  • Toothpaste
  • Washing up liquid
  • Freezer bags
  • Breadcrumbs
  • Kidney beans
  • Oregano
  • Fresh coriander
  • Saffron
  • Cider
  • Beer

I would go with Coconut milk, only because the very thought of it makes me want to vomit. 😜

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1 hour ago, ariotofmyown said:

I assume you don't mean comments on here as I don't recall seeing any at all. It seems seems strange behaviour for a furloughed worker to make distasteful comments to someone who has been missed by the system. Where are these comments being made and what is the nature of them?

No not on here should have made that clear, on social media, word of mouth, my own personal experience.

I wouldn't call the comments strange just totally lacking any semblance of empathy and an I'm alright thanks Jack selfish mentality. 

 

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17 minutes ago, Eddie said:

So this is what prompted you to go whizzing off to the beer thread and attempt to pull me over the coals for ordering beer from Belgium last November. 

I had a Tesco order arrive on Thursday. The order has been unpacked, quarantined and cleaned as appropriate. Could you please tell me which of the following items I should not have ordered because they are putting other people's lives at risk...

  • Milk
  • Coffee
  • Minced beef
  • Chicken portions
  • Bleach
  • Tomatoes (chopped and fresh)
  • Cucumber
  • Romaine lettuce
  • Celery
  • Coconut milk
  • Carrots
  • Baby potatoes
  • Savoy cabbage
  • Spinach
  • Eggs
  • Butter
  • Cheese
  • Yoghurt
  • Pasta
  • Flour
  • Rice
  • Toothpaste
  • Washing up liquid
  • Freezer bags
  • Breadcrumbs
  • Kidney beans
  • Oregano
  • Fresh coriander
  • Saffron
  • Cider
  • Beer

Special order BEER ,,, as I say I’m not personally against it but then I’m not shouting from the rooftops about everybody else s selfishness , irresponsibility’s ,bleating about they’re lives and struggles, it’s not about you ( you just happen to be one doing it on here) I’m seeing and hearing this all around me ,,,,,, people really really need to check just how glass they’re own houses are,

ordering beer from Belgium is ok or would it be better not to put people’s lives at risk just for the sake of it?

Edited by Archied
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