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30 minutes ago, BIllyD said:

Yes there has been thousands of fines, however the incident we were talking about was giving out fines for walking, where you were quite happy to take the sensational press headlines as police focusing on the wrong areas.

Does it matter how many times the rules have been broken, I think it's safe to say if everyone had followed the rules then the chances of having to close pubs etc...wouldn't probably have been required.

If you also can't see the difference between going to the pub and keeping shops open (unless you are referring to non essential items, which I would agree to a point ), then there really is no point carrying on that part of the discussion.

I can see the difference, families are not permitted to walk around pubs getting into close contact with other families, but they are permitted to do that in supermarkets. 

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10 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I can see the difference, families are not permitted to walk around pubs getting into close contact with other families, but they are permitted to do that in supermarkets. 

Aldi was full of drunk children today. They kept putting their arms around strangers saying they loved them.

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1 hour ago, Archied said:

im actually stunned at the number and type of people who have abdicated they’re right to think for themselves

I'm actually stunned that people think that "thinking for themselves" means not trusting what independent government scientists say, whilst spreading the opinions of columnists/presenters who are trying to promote their own unqualified views, often in an attempt to either drive revenue for themselves, or the company they work for.

It ends up with "the people" storming government buildings and killing the police they usually claim to support.

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36 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Aldi was full of drunk children today. They kept putting their arms around strangers saying they loved them.

Agreed, heard they had swarmed there from the surrounding areas and were all piling down the sweet aisles.

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33 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

I'm actually stunned that people think that "thinking for themselves" means not trusting what independent government scientists say, whilst spreading the opinions of columnists/presenters who are trying to promote their own unqualified views, often in an attempt to either drive revenue for themselves, or the company they work for.

It ends up with "the people" storming government buildings and killing the police they usually claim to support.

You do realise that there are scientists with different views? There is not a worldwide consensus on how to tackle this pandemic?

You do realise that some of the 'independent' scientists you speak of have stakes in the firms producing vaccines. No conspiracy here by the way but that does not meet the definition of independent as far as I am aware.

You do realise the Government is not always acting in line with the guidance from these supposedly independent scientists?

You do realise that you spent the period from June 2016 to December 2019 telling us that we could not believe a word that the Government says and that all of their decisions were for their own benefit and their mates?

You do realise that you also quote columnists/presenters with their own unqualified views? It just so happens that they share the view that you agree with?

As for you the last paragraph, that is a classic example of you repeating media hyperbole which is completely at odds with the evidence that is there right before your eyes.

 

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2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

You do realise that there are scientists with different views? There is not a worldwide consensus on how to tackle this pandemic?

Yep, there are some fringe scientists who differ from the majority view. I think there is a fairly wide scientific consensus on how to tackle the pandemic, what differs between countries is how these measure have been implemented by those in power.

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

You do realise that some of the 'independent' scientists you speak of have stakes in the firms producing vaccines. No conspiracy here by the way but that does not meet the definition of independent as far as I am aware.

Yeah and this could potentially produce a conflict of interests. However, I have a fairly high level of trust in the people  producing vaccines. I don't have a high level of trust in fringe scientists who are linked to right wing US groups, when their 'science' just happens to match the group's desires.

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

You do realise the Government is not always acting in line with the guidance from these supposedly independent scientists?

Of course. Not sure what your point is here. It's been pretty clear to me when government had followed science and when it hasn't, like when the lockdowns were always implemented too late. I imagine you will differ here as you are still waiting for your evidence that pubs could be bad for spreading Covid.

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

You do realise that you spent the period from June 2016 to December 2019 telling us that we could not believe a word that the Government says and that all of their decisions were for their own benefit and their mates?

Yep, that is pretty much what they did and what they are still doing, and it was pretty obvious what they were doing, even to people who agreed with that one big decision. All the competent MPs have been purged and we are left with the dregs. However, this discussion was believing scientists and experts vs columnists with an agenda, usually their own jobs. I'll always listen to experts. The government listens to experts when it suits. Some people have still had enough of experts and think they know better.

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

You do realise that you also quote columnists/presenters with their own unqualified views? It just so happens that they share the view that you agree with?

Yeah, I probably do, but on Covid at least, I would listen to people who are following scientific consensus.

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

As for you the last paragraph, that is a classic example of you repeating media hyperbole which is completely at odds with the evidence that is there right before your eyes.

You should take a look at what Rupert Murdoch's son (the Kendal one out of Succesion) is saying now about Fox. 

You do realise that the sort of media attacked by the Tory vice chair contributes towards people breaking rules. It also reduce enforcement as the government pander to these voices, against both popular and scientific opinion.

When many people escaped London before Xmas, packing on crowded trains and taking the new variant of Covid home to their loved ones, their actions got plenty of support on here. I believe some people on here were still downplaying the NHS crisis at this point, saying it was just like other years. Total falsehoods spread by the usual columnists and professional liars. And now the deaths numbers are just tragic.

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7 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

Yep, there are some fringe scientists who differ from the majority view. I think there is a fairly wide scientific consensus on how to tackle the pandemic, what differs between countries is how these measure have been implemented by those in power.

Yeah and this could potentially produce a conflict of interests. However, I have a fairly high level of trust in the people  producing vaccines. I don't have a high level of trust in fringe scientists who are linked to right wing US groups, when their 'science' just happens to match the group's desires.

Of course. Not sure what your point is here. It's been pretty clear to me when government had followed science and when it hasn't, like when the lockdowns were always implemented too late. I imagine you will differ here as you are still waiting for your evidence that pubs could be bad for spreading Covid.

Yep, that is pretty much what they did and what they are still doing, and it was pretty obvious what they were doing, even to people who agreed with that one big decision. All the competent MPs have been purged and we are left with the dregs. However, this discussion was believing scientists and experts vs columnists with an agenda, usually their own jobs. I'll always listen to experts. The government listens to experts when it suits. Some people have still had enough of experts and think they know better.

Yeah, I probably do, but on Covid at least, I would listen to people who are following scientific consensus.

You should take a look at what Rupert Murdoch's son (the Kendal one out of Succesion) is saying now about Fox. 

You do realise that the sort of media attacked by the Tory vice chair contributes towards people breaking rules. It also reduce enforcement as the government pander to these voices, against both popular and scientific opinion.

When many people escaped London before Xmas, packing on crowded trains and taking the new variant of Covid home to their loved ones, their actions got plenty of support on here. I believe some people on here were still downplaying the NHS crisis at this point, saying it was just like other years. Total falsehoods spread by the usual columnists and professional liars. And now the deaths numbers are just tragic.

The extreme right wing again , seems to be the snake oil cover all blanket for some

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8 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

Yep, there are some fringe scientists who differ from the majority view. I think there is a fairly wide scientific consensus on how to tackle the pandemic, what differs between countries is how these measure have been implemented by those in power.

Yeah and this could potentially produce a conflict of interests. However, I have a fairly high level of trust in the people  producing vaccines. I don't have a high level of trust in fringe scientists who are linked to right wing US groups, when their 'science' just happens to match the group's desires.

Of course. Not sure what your point is here. It's been pretty clear to me when government had followed science and when it hasn't, like when the lockdowns were always implemented too late. I imagine you will differ here as you are still waiting for your evidence that pubs could be bad for spreading Covid.

Yep, that is pretty much what they did and what they are still doing, and it was pretty obvious what they were doing, even to people who agreed with that one big decision. All the competent MPs have been purged and we are left with the dregs. However, this discussion was believing scientists and experts vs columnists with an agenda, usually their own jobs. I'll always listen to experts. The government listens to experts when it suits. Some people have still had enough of experts and think they know better.

Yeah, I probably do, but on Covid at least, I would listen to people who are following scientific consensus.

You should take a look at what Rupert Murdoch's son (the Kendal one out of Succesion) is saying now about Fox. 

You do realise that the sort of media attacked by the Tory vice chair contributes towards people breaking rules. It also reduce enforcement as the government pander to these voices, against both popular and scientific opinion.

When many people escaped London before Xmas, packing on crowded trains and taking the new variant of Covid home to their loved ones, their actions got plenty of support on here. I believe some people on here were still downplaying the NHS crisis at this point, saying it was just like other years. Total falsehoods spread by the usual columnists and professional liars. And now the deaths numbers are just tragic.

Fringe scientists

Extreme right wing 

NHS crisis 

You really so swallow it all up and regurgitate it dont you?!

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38 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Fringe scientists

Extreme right wing 

NHS crisis 

You really so swallow it all up and regurgitate it dont you?!

You and @Archied both used the phrase "extreme right wing" as if I had said it.

I know you are very concerned about conflicts of interests in vaccines, I assume you do not know about the information included in this article about a right wing think tank link to minority view science: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/18/covid-herd-immunity-funding-bad-science-anti-lockdown

You don't think the NHS is in crisis. Try explaining that to cancer patients who've had urgent surgery cancelled because there hospitals are too full.  If only we'd had listened to those pro herd immunity columnists, we could have had 4 times as many people on hospital now.

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6 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

You and @Archied both used the phrase "extreme right wing" as if I had said it.

I know you are very concerned about conflicts of interests in vaccines, I assume you do not know about the information included in this article about a right wing think tank link to minority view science: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/18/covid-herd-immunity-funding-bad-science-anti-lockdown

You don't think the NHS is in crisis. Try explaining that to cancer patients who've had urgent surgery cancelled because there hospitals are too full.  If only we'd had listened to those pro herd immunity columnists, we could have had 4 times as many people on hospital now.

Erm you did say it. Or are you admitting that you just regurgitate stuff that you read from columnists/commentators trying to further their careers?

No, I'm not concerned about conflicts of interests in vaccines.

So you think this is the first winter where operations have been cancelled?

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5 minutes ago, Norman said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9157627/One-six-hospital-patients-caught-Covid-19-treated-illnesses-figures-show.html#article-9157627

1 in 6 covid hospital patients since the second wave in September were infected whilst in hospital for other illnesses. 

Yeah but probably caught them other illnesses in the pub?

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People coming in from every country now have to have had a negative covid test before they enter our borders. They are then being asked to self isolate for ten days.

This is all well and good but why are we allowing people to travel around the country before they start their isolation, that's if they actually do isolate.

Why are we not doing like other countries and making travellers isolate in designated hotels for ten days, at their own cost, before they can continue with their travels

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12 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

People coming in from every country now have to have had a negative covid test before they enter our borders. They are then being asked to self isolate for ten days.

This is all well and good but why are we allowing people to travel around the country before they start their isolation, that's if they actually do isolate.

Why are we not doing like other countries and making travellers isolate in designated hotels for ten days, at their own cost, before they can continue with their travels

This is a good question - i know someone who is flying in from South Africa, and they are travelling from the airport to isolate in an airbnb that they have booked, but it's quite a long way from the airport and they have to get their by public transport as they have no other means

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29 minutes ago, JoetheRam said:

Not on this scale, no.

Yeah I would not have thought so either.

Any idea on the figures.

I see hopsital admissions have been falling for the past 4 days but no mention of this in the media.

Just the same reporting of the NHS being under immense strain and not being able to cope.

No newspapers to be sold reporting good news though I guess.

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9 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Just the same reporting of the NHS being under immense strain and not being able to cope

My Staff Nurse niece is doing 12hr shifts plus extra days. She is absolutely wiped out with end of life care and ringing families up with bad news. So you can put all your fancy stats and conspiracy theories where the sun don't shine. Two things will fix this, staying away from other people and getting the jab.

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1 minute ago, FindernRam said:

My Staff Nurse niece is doing 12hr shifts plus extra days. She is absolutely wiped out with end of life care and ringing families up with bad news. So you can put all your fancy stats and conspiracy theories where the sun don't shine. Two things will fix this, staying away from other people and getting the jab.

Brilliant and say thank you to your niece.

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