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Just now, G STAR RAM said:

Ok so, you want all private dwellings closed down, care homes and hospitals?

Maybe just me, but I'm struggling to see the coloration between the two ?

Are you saying I can only want pubs to close IF I also want the venues that you listed above to also close ? 

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5 minutes ago, BIllyD said:

Maybe just me, but I'm struggling to see the coloration between the two ?

Are you saying I can only want pubs to close IF I also want the venues that you listed above to also close ? 

You said you wanted places closed down where the transmission is higher?

And of course its your prerogative to decide where you want closed.

 

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4 minutes ago, sage said:

Goes without saying, i do think its appalling they can be purchased online though.

Means nothing if anyone can buy them.

Personally think people should carry a proper proof of exemption, doesnt have to be anything complicated. If the medical condition causing you to be exempt just carry a copy of prescription or a folded down box the medication came in.

Or if no medication is taken, surely cant be that complex for GP's to issue a letter.

That said, anyone buying anything like this just to avoid wearing a mask and they dont have a medical condition isnt a berk, its not strong enough....another B word....ending in ford.

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1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

You said you wanted places closed down where the transmission is higher?

And of course its your prerogative to decide where you want closed.

 

We were talking about pubs, although if you want to be pedantic then you are right I didn't caveat it with for example, an establishment that is saving lives. Maybe I should have been clearer, as obviously someone going for a few beers is on the same level as treating someone for a life threatening disease ?

Hopefully we have now cleared that up and the difference between the two, but just in case I'll put it another way.

I would close any indoor activity that increases the risk of transmission, not including though hospitals, care homes, private dwelling (and similar establishments).

 

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3 minutes ago, BIllyD said:

We were talking about pubs, although if you want to be pedantic then you are right I didn't caveat it with for example, an establishment that is saving lives. Maybe I should have been clearer, as obviously someone going for a few beers is on the same level as treating someone for a life threatening disease ?

Hopefully we have now cleared that up and the difference between the two, but just in case I'll put it another way.

I would close any indoor activity that increases the risk of transmission, not including though hospitals, care homes, private dwelling (and similar establishments).

So in a nutshell, you would literally cripple the economy?

Thats fair enough. 

I guess its easier to advocate things when they don't impact you.

I'll hold my hands up and been hypocritical in that regard, as in as much that Ive questioned why Costa Coffee and Subway are still open, mainly because personally never use them.

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9 minutes ago, Sith Happens said:

Goes without saying, i do think its appalling they can be purchased online though.

Means nothing if anyone can buy them.

 

Would it be (Is it) legal for a business (eg supermarket or small independent shop) to enforce a "No mask, No Entry" ruling.  With a small print of "No exceptions... including for those that are exempt"?  In other words, ban everyone who isn't wearing a mask.

I'd like to think it is (legal), and those that are genuinely exempt would need to find an alternative shop (eg) or get someone to shop for them?

?‍♂️

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14 minutes ago, Sith Happens said:

Goes without saying, i do think its appalling they can be purchased online though.

Means nothing if anyone can buy them.

Personally think people should carry a proper proof of exemption, doesnt have to be anything complicated. If the medical condition causing you to be exempt just carry a copy of prescription or a folded down box the medication came in.

Or if no medication is taken, surely cant be that complex for GP's to issue a letter.

That said, anyone buying anything like this just to avoid wearing a mask and they dont have a medical condition isnt a berk, its not strong enough....another B word....ending in ford.

I think anyone who can't wear a mask should wear a visor on trains and in supermarkets. Not as good as a mask, but better than nothing.

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2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

So in a nutshell, you would literally cripple the economy?

Thats fair enough. 

I guess its easier to advocate things when they don't impact you.

I'll hold my hands up and been hypocritical in that regard, as in as much that Ive questioned why Costa Coffee and Subway are still open, mainly because personally never use them.

Why doesn't it impact me, I've already said I goto the pub, just because I agree with the decision to shut them, doesn't mean I don't use them.

As for crippling the economy, shutting the pubs isn't going to do that, a bit of an exaggeration to say the least. Think the industry is worth around 1.5 billion per year, it would certainly cripple that sector,  not the economy.

Personally, I would have shut them from the start, but would have allocated more money to them, take it out the equation, I just think it's a unnecessary high risk area. Of course it would impact other things outside the above, mental health etc...however I'd still have done it balancing the risks of the two.

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8 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

Would it be (Is it) legal for a business (eg supermarket or small independent shop) to enforce a "No mask, No Entry" ruling.  With a small print of "No exceptions... including for those that are exempt"?  In other words, ban everyone who isn't wearing a mask.

I'd like to think it is (legal), and those that are genuinely exempt would need to find an alternative shop (eg) or get someone to shop for them?

?‍♂️

Well its been said that supermarkets will enforce it more now and insist on a mask, unless you are exempt.

No proof of exemption is required which for me is an issue.

I could easily claim exemption as have lifelong Asthma but i dont, i wear my mask but do admit at times after long periods of wearing it i do tend to struggle, so if that happens i have gone outdoors.

Im not sure id agree, well i know i dont, that we go down the route of preventing people who genuinely cannot wear masks from going about there business. Prior to lockdown 2 it was a requirement in a pub/restaurtant, if not sat, to wear a mask unless exempt. Do you extend the ban to those locations too? Garden centres?

 

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10 minutes ago, sage said:

I think anyone who can't wear a mask should wear a visor on trains and in supermarkets. Not as good as a mask, but better than nothing.

Its a difficult one.

As i have just said to Mucker, i could easily claim exemption but dont, if i feel wearing a mask is problematic, which it has been, i leave and go outside.

That said, as an asthmatic, if i was suffering from wearing a face covering i dont think a visor would feel any better as your face is still covered. Its hard to explain unless you are asthmatic yourself, and possibly not all asthmatics are the same but anything covering your face, even splashing water on water slides etc, can trigger a reaction making it difficult to breathe, its quite possible a mental thing which causes you to breathe harder if you have any sort of covering etc.

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14 minutes ago, BIllyD said:

Why doesn't it impact me, I've already said I goto the pub, just because I agree with the decision to shut them, doesn't mean I don't use them.

As for crippling the economy, shutting the pubs isn't going to do that, a bit of an exaggeration to say the least. Think the industry is worth around 1.5 billion per year, it would certainly cripple that sector,  not the economy.

Personally, I would have shut them from the start, but would have allocated more money to them, take it out the equation, I just think it's a unnecessary high risk area. Of course it would impact other things outside the above, mental health etc...however I'd still have done it balancing the risks of the two.

Not being able to go to the pub is a bit different to losing your livelihood from them closing, though I guess your latter suggestion covers that.

You said you would close any indoor activity that increases transmission.

The argument for closing pubs appears to be that people talk in them causing airborne droplets. 

I therefore assumed you would want any indoor setting where people talk closed down as this will potentially increase transmission, unless of course you think we should keep places open but introduce a law banning talking?

 

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8 minutes ago, Sith Happens said:

Well its been said that supermarkets will enforce it more now and insist on a mask, unless you are exempt.

No proof of exemption is required which for me is an issue.

I could easily claim exemption as have lifelong Asthma but i dont, i wear my mask but do admit at times after long periods of wearing it i do tend to struggle, so if that happens i have gone outdoors.

Im not sure id agree, well i know i dont, that we go down the route of preventing people who genuinely cannot wear masks from going about there business. Prior to lockdown 2 it was a requirement in a pub/restaurtant, if not sat, to wear a mask unless exempt. Do you extend the ban to those locations too? Garden centres?

 

In all honesty Yes.  My initial thinking was "all establishments"... or at least the inside of them.

I must hasten to say, that this was a knee jerk reaction (on my part) to reading the above post about that actor bloke.  It wasn't something I gave a great deal of thought to before posting, and most certainly didn't give any consideration from the point of view of someone such as yourself, who is exempt... or could be.   

I guess the very best ideas start of as "somewhat crap", but after much negotiation, tweaks, and amendments...

 

??

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38 minutes ago, Sith Happens said:

Goes without saying, i do think its appalling they can be purchased online though.

Means nothing if anyone can buy them.

Personally think people should carry a proper proof of exemption, doesnt have to be anything complicated. If the medical condition causing you to be exempt just carry a copy of prescription or a folded down box the medication came in.

Or if no medication is taken, surely cant be that complex for GP's to issue a letter.

That said, anyone buying anything like this just to avoid wearing a mask and they dont have a medical condition isnt a berk, its not strong enough....another B word....ending in ford.

The crazy thing is that if anyone is selfish enough to want to do it, it would be quite easy to produce your own exemption certificate. Is a supermarket really going to challenge and check a letter purporting to be from a doctors surgery?

A scummy thing to do but if any lowlife wanted to they quite easily do it.

A prescription might be a better solution but would a supermarket understand it? Also, I am a mild asthma sufferer and therefore have a repeat prescription for an inhaler but there is no way my condition is anywhere serious enough to prevent me wearing a face covering.

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7 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Not being able to go to the pub is a bit different to losing your livelihood from them closing, though I guess your latter suggestion covers that.

You said you would close any indoor activity that increases transmission.

The argument for closing pubs appears to be that people talk in them causing airborne droplets. 

I therefore assumed you would want any indoor setting where people talk closed down as this will potentially increase transmission, unless of course you think we should keep places open but introduce a law banning talking?

 

I thought I was clear yesterday in reference to pubs, but maybe not. I'm say down with a friend or group without beer, I'm more likely to keep to social distancing rules. Same scenario, adding in a few beers and I can honestly say the likelihood is that either the friends or me forget about them rules, or at least become lax. 
 

Maybe your local pub is devoid of people like me, maybe you are immune to the effects of alcohol and that's why you think the biggest risk is people talking, but based upon many many years going to pubs in a regular basis, if that's the case I would say that's you are in the minority not majority.

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10 minutes ago, BIllyD said:

I thought I was clear yesterday in reference to pubs, but maybe not. I'm say down with a friend or group without beer, I'm more likely to keep to social distancing rules. Same scenario, adding in a few beers and I can honestly say the likelihood is that either the friends or me forget about them rules, or at least become lax. 
 

Maybe your local pub is devoid of people like me, maybe you are immune to the effects of alcohol and that's why you think the biggest risk is people talking, but based upon many many years going to pubs in a regular basis, if that's the case I would say that's you are in the minority not majority.

Yes but your years of going in the pubs werent in the middle of a pandemic. 

Im guessing that in these years there were no santitiser stations around the pub, seating was not socially distanced,  there were not one way systems in place, table service, tables cleaned after every use?

Are the people you are describing not following the rules because they are in a pub or are they the sort of people that would show equal disregard for the rules at work and in a supermarket?

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42 minutes ago, Sith Happens said:

Its a difficult one.

As i have just said to Mucker, i could easily claim exemption but dont, if i feel wearing a mask is problematic, which it has been, i leave and go outside.

That said, as an asthmatic, if i was suffering from wearing a face covering i dont think a visor would feel any better as your face is still covered. Its hard to explain unless you are asthmatic yourself, and possibly not all asthmatics are the same but anything covering your face, even splashing water on water slides etc, can trigger a reaction making it difficult to breathe, its quite possible a mental thing which causes you to breathe harder if you have any sort of covering etc.

I am same mate but I think vicer is better than a mask it protect whole face.

Were mask only protects mouth and nose does not protect eyes or ears as virus can enter just as easily through eyes and ears.

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1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

Yes but your years of going in the pubs werent in the middle of a pandemic. 

Im guessing that in these years there were no santitiser stations around the pub, seating was not socially distanced,  there were not one way systems in place, table service, tables cleaned after every use?

Are the people you are describing not following the rules because they are in a pub or are they the sort of people that would show equal disregard for the rules at work and in a supermarket?

Many pubs were social distance mate.

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