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28 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

I really don't know what you are on about here. Isle of Wight was in Tier 1 in early December and had suffered very little from Covid.

The situation rapidly got worse in December when a person who lived there reported lots of people travelling across from the mainland from higher tiers.

This seems to me highly selfish behaviour, but also a lack of planning to prevent people doing this.

I imagine reading your posts from early December would show you doubting there was any serious problems with the 2nd wave though, so are unable to comprehend this Isle of Wight tragedy was avoidable.

Cornwall was also in Tier 1 in December and is now in Tier 4.

You do realise there is a new variant that is much more transmissible right?

Strangely enough our trade body has been in constant dialogue with the DCMS and repeatedly requested evidence of why our sector is one of those being singled out.

Like yourself, all they have ever been able to offer is anecdotal evidence.

Even when we have been able to debunk what they say, all we ever hear is that it is too late and the decisions have been made.

So like them, I will challenge you, can you point me in the direction of the evidence that the virus was being transmitted more in pubs than in any other venues please?

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22 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Cornwall was also in Tier 1 in December and is now in Tier 4.

You do realise there is a new variant that is much more transmissible right?

Strangely enough our trade body has been in constant dialogue with the DCMS and repeatedly requested evidence of why our sector is one of those being singled out.

Like yourself, all they have ever been able to offer is anecdotal evidence.

Even when we have been able to debunk what they say, all we ever hear is that it is too late and the decisions have been made.

So like them, I will challenge you, can you point me in the direction of the evidence that the virus was being transmitted more in pubs than in any other venues please?

The article I posted referred to groups of people coming to the Isle of Wight to go to pubs, restaurants, stay in hotels and see family and friends.

The point of it is that people from higher tier areas mixed with pretty covid free areas. I think this is selfish and was shambolicly non-enforced.

Your "show me the evidence that pubs spread Covid" debate was with other posters.

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Just now, ariotofmyown said:

The article I posted referred to groups of people coming to the Isle of Wight to go to pubs, restaurants, stay in hotels and see family and friends.

The point of it is that people from higher tier areas mixed with pretty covid free areas. I think this is selfish and was shambolicly non-enforced.

Your "show me the evidence that pubs spread Covid" debate was with other posters.

And as I pointed out, article was complete dog poo, basically trying to apportion the blame to people 'swarming' across the sea and 'piling' into pubs in search of alcohol.

Even if people were going over to pubs there were still Covid rules to follow. Is there any evidence that this was not being done, leading to a rise in cases?

Why were the people returning to see their families not described as swarming over the sea and piling into the family homes?

The spread of the virus probably could have been stopped by closing the borders but if that is the premise of your argument perhaps you should be aiming your anger at China for not closing their borders as soon as the virus was discovered.

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46 minutes ago, Uptherams said:

No, don't tell porkies old man. 

Hang about - you can't be both pro-lockdown and anti-lockdown at the same time, can you, young whippersnapper with the exuberance of youth? You can't just be anti-everything I say - that's @G STAR RAM's job.

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3 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

How does this sit with you advocating the 'safe' use of pubs, bars or restaurants then or have I misunderstood you?

I dont think pubs, bars and restaurants should have preferential treatment.

If we are in lockdown it is right that they should be closed. 

As lockdown is lifted I do not think they should be singled out for special treatment, unless there is specific evidence that they are more of a risk than other places that are open.

 

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5 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Hang about - you can't be both pro-lockdown and anti-lockdown at the same time, can you, young whippersnapper with the exuberance of youth? You can't just be anti-everything I say - that's @G STAR RAM's job.

Be interested to hear what you think I am anti in relation to this?

I like to think I am keeping a pretty open mind and have changed my mind, and held my hands up several times when I have been wrong.

From what I can see, it is you that is completely stuck in your anti living life views?

Once again though happy for you to point me in the right direction if Im in the wrong.

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4 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I dont think pubs, bars and restaurants should have preferential treatment.

If we are in lockdown it is right that they should be closed. 

As lockdown is lifted I do not think they should be singled out for special treatment, unless there is specific evidence that they are more of a risk than other places that are open.

 

Ah, understood and fully agree. I went to a few pubs during the initial lockdown and some were pretty poorly ordered, but others were making an extremely good job of keeping folk safe. Same sort of set up as you've described - seated patrons only, table service, no bar, tables and seats wiped down for each new group, one way systems etc. By and large most folk also being quite respectful.

The issue is, some pubs were absolutely awful as was the behaviour of their patrons. A few pubs and their idiot customers ruining things for all. It's why we can't have nice things, more's the pity. In the end, me and my lot took to doing socially distanced park-life before that became an issue too 😕

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4 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Ah, understood and fully agree. I went to a few pubs during the initial lockdown and some were pretty poorly ordered, but others were making an extremely good job of keeping folk safe. Same sort of set up as you've described - seated patrons only, table service, no bar, tables and seats wiped down for each new group, one way systems etc. By and large most folk also being quite respectful.

The issue is, some pubs were absolutely awful as was the behaviour of their patrons. A few pubs and their idiot customers ruining things for all. It's why we can't have nice things, more's the pity. In the end, me and my lot took to doing socially distanced park-life before that became an issue too 😕

Yeah, as I say, I can only go from my personal experiences and my 2 local pubs that I frequent were both immaculate whenever I attended.

If, as you say, other pubs are not following rules then surely there should be the evidence that this is where the virus is spreading.

From memory, when the Government did release figures of where they thought the virus was spreading, hospitality venues were somewhere around the 5% mark.

The highest percentages were somewhere between 20 and 30% I think, being schools and workplaces, from memory.

Therefore, how can it possibly be justified to close down hospitality venues and leave schools and workplaces open?!

I will hunt down the article because I am sure there will be someone waiting to pick me up on it and say there is no evidence for what I say!

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3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Yeah, as I say, I can only go from my personal experiences and my 2 local pubs that I frequent were both immaculate whenever I attended.

If, as you say, other pubs are not following rules then surely there should be the evidence that this is where the virus is spreading.

From memory, when the Government did release figures of where they thought the virus was spreading, hospitality venues were somewhere around the 5% mark.

The highest percentages were somewhere between 20 and 30% I think, being schools and workplaces, from memory.

Therefore, how can it possibly be justified to close down hospitality venues and leave schools and workplaces open?!

I will hunt down the article because I am sure there will be someone waiting to pick me up on it and say there is no evidence for what I say!

Don't entirely disagree with you mate. I think there was a lot of resistance on here as I recall to the schools thing and I have a lot of sympathy for anyone being forced to work in unsafe conditions, especially with this new strain running riot. I advocated a hard lockdown from the off as you may recall, but unfortunately what we got was a series of half measures.

I've come to think, however, that without closing our borders, we were always going to take a hiding. I remember predicting 100k deaths in the UK at one point. How depressing to see that I wasn't that far wrong. To my way of thinking though, hard lockdowns aside, herd immunity was the only other option and I firmly believe that the death count would then have been catastrophic. The only saving grace is that we ought to be able to take forward the lessons learned, as I don't doubt that we will see something similar again in our lifetimes.

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31 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Hang about - you can't be both pro-lockdown and anti-lockdown at the same time, can you, young whippersnapper with the exuberance of youth? You can't just be anti-everything I say - that's @G STAR RAM's job.

That's the problem with you lot. It's either one thing or another. Specialty is projecting what you hope others think.

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8 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Don't entirely disagree with you mate. I think there was a lot of resistance on here as I recall to the schools thing and I have a lot of sympathy for anyone being forced to work in unsafe conditions, especially with this new strain running riot. I advocated a hard lockdown from the off as you may recall, but unfortunately what we got was a series of half measures.

I've come to think, however, that without closing our borders, we were always going to take a hiding. I remember predicting 100k deaths in the UK at one point. How depressing to see that I wasn't that far wrong. To my way of thinking though, hard lockdowns aside, herd immunity was the only other option and I firmly believe that the death count would then have been catastrophic. The only saving grace is that we ought to be able to take forward the lessons learned, as I don't doubt that we will see something similar again in our lifetimes.

I dont think you could really call the first lockdown half measure.

It was, and probably will be, the biggest restriction on our freedoms, hopefully in our lifetime.

Dont disagree with closing the borders but I fear that by time it was even considerd it was probably already too late.

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1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Yeah, as I say, I can only go from my personal experiences and my 2 local pubs that I frequent were both immaculate whenever I attended.

If, as you say, other pubs are not following rules then surely there should be the evidence that this is where the virus is spreading.

From memory, when the Government did release figures of where they thought the virus was spreading, hospitality venues were somewhere around the 5% mark.

The highest percentages were somewhere between 20 and 30% I think, being schools and workplaces, from memory.

Therefore, how can it possibly be justified to close down hospitality venues and leave schools and workplaces open?!

I will hunt down the article because I am sure there will be someone waiting to pick me up on it and say there is no evidence for what I say!

Will be interesting to see this article. I would have thought that given you will have much higher numbers going to schools for example, then percentages will be much higher.

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Just now, BIllyD said:

Will be interesting to see this article. I would have thought that given you will have much higher numbers going to schools for example, then percentages will be much higher.

So assuming numbers in pubs are limited you agree that percentages will be lower and therefore no reason to close them

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3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

So assuming numbers in pubs are limited you agree that percentages will be lower and therefore no reason to close them

No, I'd close anywhere the risk of transmission is higher, pubs being top of the list for me.

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2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Not sure if this is the original article that I read but the figures are mentioned in here:-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/54293460

Thanks, it's very much dependant on being able to track where they caught it and other things as highlighted in the article. A quick google shows show other stats as well...

https://fullfact.org/health/its-wrong-to-say-that-only-3-of-covid-19-cases-are-caused-by-restaurants-and-pubs/
 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-uk-cases-pubs-restaurants-covid-nadhim-zahawi-b904636.html%3famp

 

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