Coronavirus

[GboroRam]

51 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

Ask JFK.

Ask Martin Luther King.

Ask Churchill.

Ask Obama.

Ask Hitler maybe (probably don't, he was a bit too good).

Hell, even though I despised the woman, ask Thatcher because she was a brilliant orator.

Even John Major was light years about this clown we have leading the country.

Ask any great world leader who demands respect and loyalty. 

Boris does neither.

That presser sounded like the first night at a new Toastmasters when the bell is going off so many times  because of a lack of eloquence and a reliance on double clutches that people are weeping with ear pain.

It was utterly pathetic. 

It's  also incredibly relevant when the listener cannot focus on the message because he's umming and erring like a schoolboy trying to explain why his exam results suck.

The ability to communicate effectively is ONE of the defining characteristics of a great leader.

Boris is a bumbling fool and he demonstrates that every time he tries to talk.

And remember, the guy has an autocue and still can't pull it off.

 

Only question I would ask is what kind of totalitarian regime are Australia and New Zealand then?

[Norman]

56 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

I touched on this yesterday when I pointed out that the countries faring the worst are some of the biggest liberal democracies

You're spot on that the attitude of society is one of the factors here. We have spent decades happily doing pretty much what we like with fairly minor state intervention (beyond a mostly sensible set of laws) - so when things get draconian in response to an unprecedented crisis, the balanced amongst us think "that sucks, but I can see why we have to do that" and largely comply. But then there is another sizeable part of society who simply don't want to give up their freedoms, and will continue to do what the hell they like (empowered by the fact that we don't live under martial law and therefore they will get away with it 9 times out of 10)

But then the other major factor is that these liberal democracies are governed by the corrupt. Everyone knows that. And we all know that the mechanisms for deciding our government (eg FPTP, electoral college etc)  are archaic and do nothing to help accountability and local represensentation

But then we also know that we are powerless to change that, and there is an unwritten social contract that says we trade our freedoms (mentioned above) in return for accepting corrupt government as "the way it is". To be clear I'm not being partisan here - no matter which party is in charge it's the same.

So when we see the likes of Cummings and all these politicians getting away with things that we're being told not to do, it cements that foundation in people's minds that government is corrupt When we see billions being spent on non-tendered contracts to government cronies who don't deliver...when we see the Home Secretary found by an inquiry to be guilty of workplace bullying but she keeps her job because she "didn't see it as bullying"...you can all fill in dozens more examples going back years. Don't get me started on the lobbying process (which is corrupt by definition)

I suppose the point I am getting to is that corrupt governments have a nasty habit of making decisions that benefit their donors and the people they are in hock to, and not the decsions that benefit the electorate. So the perfect storm ensues - in a pandemic the government make decisions and take actions that reveal their corruption, which empowers society to disobey said government. The unwritten social contract dissolves

Pretty sure there will be books written about the way this pandemic destroyed neoliberal societies so comprehensively

 

 

 

 

Agree with all of that.

I can't mention the B word, but that is another part of the story. 

It ended with ports being open with no queues, massive trade deals achieved that people said were impossible....i could go on. 

Now I'm not saying it's all rosy in the British garden on that front, but certain politicians and media outlets told people they were stupid, selfish, thick, racist, blah blah blah. 

So the majority of this country probably don't give a duck what they're told. Another reason why you can't compare us to anywhere else.

This isn't a post to debate whether it was right or wrong, or discuss the trade deals or repercussions, so please don't. It just points out what mindset and vast split poilitically, as well as through societies, we are currently experiencing. The level of mistrust on both sides must be at a record high. 

[Stive Pesley]

2 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Only question I would ask is what kind of totalitarian regime are Australia and New Zealand then?

I don't know enough about the Oceania political landscape, but there have been dozens of posts discussing the geographic advantages of those two countries. On their own that's not enough obviously - there must be other reasons.

Are these societies generally more compliant and trusting of government, and/or less prone to selfish acts of personal freedom over acting in the general interest?

[Norman]

17 hours ago, Eddie said:

Not really.

It takes 3-4 weeks for the infection to run its course - so we probably need another 2-3 years of moronic behaviour until we reach that stage, assuming no second round of infections.

When you take into account the vaccination drive, this just isn't true. 

I mean the tipping point must be arriving very soon. The point where more have had it, or are vaccinated against it, than there are those that have not had it. 

[Stive Pesley]

1 minute ago, Norman said:

This isn't a post to debate whether it was right or wrong, or discuss the trade deals or repercussions, so please don't. It just points out what mindset and vast split poilitically, as well as through societies, we are currently experiencing. The level of mistrust on both sides must be at a record high. 

Feels like we may be having a breakthrough in our perception here. For too long we've had issues like the B word and now Covid used to pit us against each other, and that's blinded us. Everyone too focussed on arguing about the issue at hand rather than looking at the bigger picture. Now we're starting to see that it's the failure of our outdated political systems that is behind absolutely everything that divides us. If we were a progressive society, our political systems would change and adapt to the world around us. But as we're stuck in the 19th century and those in charge have actively prevented any kind of modernisation in order to protect their place at the trough - it's hard to see how we force change now

The fact that our politicians routinely vote themselves a payrise whilst telling us all the reasons why we sadly cant afford to pay the key workers in society more is just an unfathomable embarassment. 

 

 

 

 

[1of4]

So some of the areas with high numbers of virus cases, have got no facilities to administer the vaccine. What is Nadhim Zahawi, the minister in charge of the distribution of the virus been doing. He's made a statement that they are working very hard to rectify the problem and then quoting how many vaccine doses have already been given. His words sound very much like those used by Matt Hancock last year, when he was trying to boast how well the tests for the virus was going, while there were people being offered tests at sites hundreds of miles away from where they lived and they were the lucky ones, who managed to get the offer of a test.

The infrastructure for where and how the immunisation programme will be carried out, should have been put in place months ago. 

[Norman]

7 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

I don't know enough about the Oceania political landscape, but there have been dozens of posts discussing the geographic advantages of those two countries. On their own that's not enough obviously - there must be other reasons.

Are these societies generally more compliant and trusting of government, and/or less prone to selfish acts of personal freedom over acting in the general interest?

It's mad to compare. 

Cities with the most outbreaks had temperatures between 5 and 11 degrees and specific humidity in March. 

Then you have transport, flights, vitamin D levels in the average person, multicultaralism, average age, the amount of unhealthy people in society, amount of society in care homes, average commute, average amount of people in each household, indoor acitivities due to the weather. 

Average temperature, average humidity, winter temperatures that enable the spread far more easily, non-compliance, a split in politics that means 50 percent of this country don't listen to the other side.

And population density, external holidays taken, internal tourism, external tourism rates and from where, international University students and from where. 

But let's go for the simple answer. New Zealand. 

[ariotofmyown]

1 hour ago, Stive Pesley said:

I touched on this yesterday when I pointed out that the countries faring the worst are some of the biggest liberal democracies

You're spot on that the attitude of society is one of the factors here. We have spent decades happily doing pretty much what we like with fairly minor state intervention (beyond a mostly sensible set of laws) - so when things get draconian in response to an unprecedented crisis, the balanced amongst us think "that sucks, but I can see why we have to do that" and largely comply. But then there is another sizeable part of society who simply don't want to give up their freedoms, and will continue to do what the hell they like (empowered by the fact that we don't live under martial law and therefore they will get away with it 9 times out of 10)

But then the other major factor is that these liberal democracies are governed by the corrupt. Everyone knows that. And we all know that the mechanisms for deciding our government (eg FPTP, electoral college etc)  are archaic and do nothing to help accountability and local represensentation

But then we also know that we are powerless to change that, and there is an unwritten social contract that says we trade our freedoms (mentioned above) in return for accepting corrupt government as "the way it is". To be clear I'm not being partisan here - no matter which party is in charge it's the same.

So when we see the likes of Cummings and all these politicians getting away with things that we're being told not to do, it cements that foundation in people's minds that government is corrupt When we see billions being spent on non-tendered contracts to government cronies who don't deliver...when we see the Home Secretary found by an inquiry to be guilty of workplace bullying but she keeps her job because she "didn't see it as bullying"...you can all fill in dozens more examples going back years. Don't get me started on the lobbying process (which is corrupt by definition)

I suppose the point I am getting to is that corrupt governments have a nasty habit of making decisions that benefit their donors and the people they are in hock to, and not the decsions that benefit the electorate. So the perfect storm ensues - in a pandemic the government make decisions and take actions that reveal their corruption, which empowers society to disobey said government. The unwritten social contract dissolves

Pretty sure there will be books written about the way this pandemic destroyed neoliberal societies so comprehensively

 

 

 

 

Brilliant post

[sonofmidnight]

Apologies if anyone has posted about this before. Someone in Belper has been posting anti vaccination posters through people's letter boxes! There is more information on the spotted Belper facebook page. All I can say in my opinion it is full of misinformation and very irresponsible. It is unbelievable when this virus is wreaking havoc that people are doing this. 

[1of4]

Hearing news reports that more children of "essential workers" are going into school then during previous two lockdowns.

I know there is a number of teachers who post on here. I was wondering how safe they feel doing their job? Especially if as been claimed that the mutated virus is easily passed on by children.

Does the increase of numbers coming  into school make it harder to then also do the distance learning for those children who have remained at home?

Should teachers be in the top priority group for receiving the vaccine?

[Van der MoodHoover]

6 hours ago, BIllyD said:

I don't think that's right. The way I read it, she would be welcomed to apply.
 

"If you are not educated to NVQ Level 3/A-Level standard but have demonstrable and significant work experience in a healthcare setting we would like you to apply, but you will only be eligible for a Vaccinator level role."

No previous in healthcare. Just good intentions. NVQ Level 3 is what junior is doing and passing the whole course is equivalent to 3 A levels which is where I think she took her information. I don't know whether she actually confirmed with anyone tbf 

[Stive Pesley]

1 hour ago, Sinistra ram rousse said:

Apologies if anyone has posted about this before. Someone in Belper has been posting anti vaccination posters through people's letter boxes! There is more information on the spotted Belper facebook page. All I can say in my opinion it is full of misinformation and very irresponsible. It is unbelievable when this virus is wreaking havoc that people are doing this. 

We had a guy doing this in our area a couple of months back. There was various CCTV footage of him delivering the leaflets and he looked a bit deranged if I'm honest.

But then we're all struggling in different ways - it's been a brutal year. I highly doubt they are posting these leaflets to deliberately misinform. They've convinced themselves it's the truth and they've just come up with a really unhelpful coping strategy.

Far better in the long run for people to just bin them and move on rather than try and argue it out with people (but i know that's easier said than done).

[BIllyD]

12 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

No previous in healthcare. Just good intentions. NVQ Level 3 is what junior is doing and passing the whole course is equivalent to 3 A levels which is where I think she took her information. I don't know whether she actually confirmed with anyone tbf 

I'm not going to profess to be 100% sure but they way I read it is either NVQ level 3 or an A level either will do. Why you need an A level is another question of course.

These are for paid jobs, not volunteering, which they are not recruiting for at the moment, which seems a bit bizarre. 

[BIllyD]

2 hours ago, Sinistra ram rousse said:

Apologies if anyone has posted about this before. Someone in Belper has been posting anti vaccination posters through people's letter boxes! There is more information on the spotted Belper facebook page. All I can say in my opinion it is full of misinformation and very irresponsible. It is unbelievable when this virus is wreaking havoc that people are doing this. 

@GboroRamgovernments fault ?? 

[Sith Happens]

I just dont get anti-vaxxers.

I sort of get the anti-covid protesters although think they are utter morons, but why would an anti-vaxxer benefit from trying to convince others?

Isnt it just a case of if you dont want it dont have it, dont try and encourage others to believe your views on it. Anyone who tries to persuade anyone else though is the worst kind of person.

[Wolfie]

4 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

I touched on this yesterday when I pointed out that the countries faring the worst are some of the biggest liberal democracies

You're spot on that the attitude of society is one of the factors here. We have spent decades happily doing pretty much what we like with fairly minor state intervention (beyond a mostly sensible set of laws) - so when things get draconian in response to an unprecedented crisis, the balanced amongst us think "that sucks, but I can see why we have to do that" and largely comply. But then there is another sizeable part of society who simply don't want to give up their freedoms, and will continue to do what the hell they like (empowered by the fact that we don't live under martial law and therefore they will get away with it 9 times out of 10)

But then the other major factor is that these liberal democracies are governed by the corrupt. Everyone knows that. And we all know that the mechanisms for deciding our government (eg FPTP, electoral college etc)  are archaic and do nothing to help accountability and local represensentation

But then we also know that we are powerless to change that, and there is an unwritten social contract that says we trade our freedoms (mentioned above) in return for accepting corrupt government as "the way it is". To be clear I'm not being partisan here - no matter which party is in charge it's the same.

So when we see the likes of Cummings and all these politicians getting away with things that we're being told not to do, it cements that foundation in people's minds that government is corrupt When we see billions being spent on non-tendered contracts to government cronies who don't deliver...when we see the Home Secretary found by an inquiry to be guilty of workplace bullying but she keeps her job because she "didn't see it as bullying"...you can all fill in dozens more examples going back years. Don't get me started on the lobbying process (which is corrupt by definition)

I suppose the point I am getting to is that corrupt governments have a nasty habit of making decisions that benefit their donors and the people they are in hock to, and not the decsions that benefit the electorate. So the perfect storm ensues - in a pandemic the government make decisions and take actions that reveal their corruption, which empowers society to disobey said government. The unwritten social contract dissolves

Pretty sure there will be books written about the way this pandemic destroyed neoliberal societies so comprehensively

 

ALL governments are currupt, regardless of where they are on the political spectrum.

[G STAR RAM]

3 hours ago, Sinistra ram rousse said:

Apologies if anyone has posted about this before. Someone in Belper has been posting anti vaccination posters through people's letter boxes! There is more information on the spotted Belper facebook page. All I can say in my opinion it is full of misinformation and very irresponsible. It is unbelievable when this virus is wreaking havoc that people are doing this. 

What is the misinformation?

[ariotofmyown]

29 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

What is the misinformation?

Come on, was it you who posted them?

[Alph]

So Severn Trent

They decide people who worked from home through whole year are key workers. So now these people are able to go into work.

But only on certain days because the office (that is "Covid Secure") has social distancing measures and a capacity limit. 

So my wife is a key worker on some days but not others. Some days she will work from home and on other days she will go to the office where her desk was used by someone else the day before who is now working from home

All sending our kids to school

I don't understand how this virus keeps spreading ? 

[Sith Happens]

3 minutes ago, Alpha said:

So Severn Trent

They decide people who worked from home through whole year are key workers. So now these people are able to go into work.

But only on certain days because the office (that is "Covid Secure") has social distancing measures and a capacity limit. 

So my wife is a key worker on some days but not others. Some days she will work from home and on other days she will go to the office where her desk was used by someone else the day before who is now working from home

All sending our kids to school

I don't understand how this virus keeps spreading ? 

Why would any company change their policy right now if people have been successfully working from home?

Totally get trying to get people back in if/when numbers drop etc, and in a safe way but to do it now is plain daft.

Probably some project manager given an objective in October of getting X amount of staff back to office and getting a bonus, so push forward regardless.