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1 hour ago, Rev said:

Riots?

I've seen a few riots in my time, and I couldn't categorize the BLM marches as a riot.

I've seen rowdier crowds at Glyndebourne!

That’s a way of looking at it , another is that the police stood back whilst statues were ripped down and thrown into the docks and such like , could it be that the reason for you not considering them a riot is the police let them crack on ? Agree with the protest / riots taking place in this situation or not is one thing but let’s not pretend they were all best behaviour peace loving gatherings

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1 hour ago, Rev said:

Riots?

I've seen a few riots in my time, and I couldn't categorize the BLM marches as a riot.

I've seen rowdier crowds at Glyndebourne!

Ah my bad.  It so hard to distinguish rioters from protesters these days without delving into the politics of such disturbances.

However you define them, they were just an example of people disregarding the threat of covid transmission whilst expressing the freedom they both enjoy and feel entitled to in the UK - as did the the people flocking to the beach or packing streets and shops in the run up to Christmas. 

I can't imagine the populous of certain other regions of the world feeling as confident with their personal liberties - which conversely allows them more 'freedom' now.

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12 minutes ago, Archied said:

That’s a way of looking at it , another is that the police stood back whilst statues were ripped down and thrown into the docks and such like , could it be that the reason for you not considering them a riot is the police let them crack on ? Agree with the protest / riots taking place in this situation or not is one thing but let’s not pretend they were all best behaviour peace loving gatherings

I don't agree with them taking place, an unnecessary risk in the moment of an uncertain pandemic, but it's a big stretch from a best behaviour peace loving gathering to a riot, surely?

10 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Ah my bad.  It so hard to distinguish rioters from protesters these days without delving into the politics of such disturbances.

However you define them, they were just an example of people disregarding the threat of covid transmission whilst expressing the freedom they both enjoy and feel entitled to in the UK - as did the the people flocking to the beach or packing streets and shops in the run up to Christmas. 

I can't imagine the populous of certain other regions of the world feeling as confident with their personal liberties - which conversely allows them more 'freedom' now.

They simply weren't riots though, which was my point.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Bob The Badger said:

If Johnson was on a sponsored talk getting £10 for every time he said 'er' world poverty would be wiped out.

Why is that relevant? Of all the things wrong with the world and the state we're in, the only thing you reference is the number of times the Prime Minister says 'er'.

Stop judging people on their persona.

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13 minutes ago, rad1919 said:

Why is that relevant? Of all the things wrong with the world and the state we're in, the only thing you reference is the number of times the Prime Minister says 'er'.

Stop judging people on their persona.

Exactly, we should be judging this government on their raging incompetence, not the fact that the PM is known overseas as Bojo the clown. 

In all seriousness, in times like these, people making jokes about such minor things at least gives them something to have a quick smile about. 

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11 minutes ago, rad1919 said:

Why is that relevant? Of all the things wrong with the world and the state we're in, the only thing you reference is the number of times the Prime Minister says 'er'.

Stop judging people on their persona.

What's interesting in this instance is that his 'persona' is one he actually chooses. 

He deliberately presents himself as unpolished, casual, informal, off the cuff... I've read various reports about how he carefully cultivates a slightly dishevelled 'rough around the edges' persona...of which I think the 'errrr' is a part...he is showing he isn't reading a script he is presenting a work in progress because he is a man of the people not a politician. 

Some people believe its almost a double bluff and he wants us to believe he is a consummate professional hiding behind a scruffy, exterior...when in fact he really is lazy and lacking in any attention to detail and prefers to work in very broad strokes and grab headlines with little to back it up. 

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13 minutes ago, Chester40 said:

What's interesting in this instance is that his 'persona' is one he actually chooses. 

He deliberately presents himself as unpolished, casual, informal, off the cuff... I've read various reports about how he carefully cultivates a slightly dishevelled 'rough around the edges' persona...of which I think the 'errrr' is a part...he is showing he isn't reading a script he is presenting a work in progress because he is a man of the people not a politician. 

Some people believe its almost a double bluff and he wants us to believe he is a consummate professional hiding behind a scruffy, exterior...when in fact he really is lazy and lacking in any attention to detail and prefers to work in very broad strokes and grab headlines with little to back it up. 

I believe he just really is the buffoon with no attention to detail. It would just be too hard to keep up the pretense otherwise. I remember him on Have I got news for you, donkeys years ago & he was exactly the same then.

He's in way over his head as PM but is still not to blame for people not following the rules and choosing to be "confused" as a defence (not aimed at you)

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27 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

I believe he just really is the buffoon with no attention to detail. It would just be too hard to keep up the pretense otherwise. I remember him on Have I got news for you, donkeys years ago & he was exactly the same then.

He's in way over his head as PM but is still not to blame for people not following the rules and choosing to be "confused" as a defence (not aimed at you)

There's a lot more to this than people just not following the rules. It's the strategy behind this all that's been a disaster. 

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We're now into the country's third lockdown is this one going to be wasted like the previous two or is this incompetent rabble we call a government going to use the time to achieve something? 

What did they do during the first lockdown, when the majority of the nation were willing to self isolate?.

 They waste the opportunity and the time during lockdown to put in place a robust plan to stop the virus spreading. If they had we may not have seen the virus carry on speading aftef the end of lockdown and so possibly stopped it mutating. All it achieved was to stop the under funded NHS being swamped with coronavirus cases and gradually bring the r rate down.  

And what did our government do to mark their great achievement? The told us all to go out and gave us a 50% off voucher to have a celebratory meal. Which help fill up pubs and restaurants which may have contributed to the r rate  not going any lower. Along with giving people the false belief the worst of the virus was over.

As for the second lockdown all that achieved was to keep the virus numbers down so Johnson could play Santa and tell us all to go and celebrate Christmas. That didn't quite go to plan did it!

Yes as a poster has said some people haven't followed instructions regarding social distancing and mask wearing. But this doesn't justify the failure of our government, who at every turn been to slow to react.

Even now with the administering of the vaccine, why are they only now recruiting the staff needed to carry out the inoculations. These people should have been recuited weeks ago in readiness for when the vaccine came online. Just one more example of the government's incompetence.

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5 hours ago, 1of4 said:

Even now with the administering of the vaccine, why are they only now recruiting the staff needed to carry out the inoculations. These people should have been recuited weeks ago in readiness for when the vaccine came online. Just one more example of the government's incompetence.

Mrs VdM thought about applying but only has 2 A levels instead of the 3 required as.a minimum.

No discretion for "experience" or other professional body accreditations to be considered. 

Seems somewhat arbitrary and simplistic when you're trying to achieve a mass recruitment. 

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1 hour ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Mrs VdM thought about applying but only has 2 A levels instead of the 3 required as.a minimum.

No discretion for "experience" or other professional body accreditations to be considered. 

Seems somewhat arbitrary and simplistic when you're trying to achieve a mass recruitment. 

I don't think that's right. The way I read it, she would be welcomed to apply.
 

"If you are not educated to NVQ Level 3/A-Level standard but have demonstrable and significant work experience in a healthcare setting we would like you to apply, but you will only be eligible for a Vaccinator level role."

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I'm backing schools to shut, safety of the staff and children is paramount. I understand many of the schools dont have the required resources and funding to carry out many lessons online, however the majority of the staff have been superb. My nephew's teachers have been first class from what I've been told in organising plans for if the schools were to shut. Sadly I can't say the same for universities.

My partner goes to Uni of Derby and they've been absolutely appalling since the start of the pandemic. They cancelled the remainder of the last academic year and gave the students their predicted grades. I was all for doing that, it was the right thing to do. Six months go and the start of this academic year has been a complete shambles. No organisation or consistency on when the lecturers can be delivered. Poor communication from the staff who keep stating Covid 19 as an excuse for every challenged question they receive. It feels like zero effort has been made to help people paying 9 grand a year for a medical course. I've listen to a couple of the online lectures and the standard of the education being delivered is horrible. It's difficult to teach 300-400 people at the same time, however not being arsed to turn up for lectures or emailing students late at night to change schedules is just crap. Student shouldn't be paying for this year, if it was an online course you'd asked for a refund.

We've all managed this pandemic in our own way and everyone's had difficulties. Unfortunately I feel as if some institutions like universities just can't be bothered to adapt to this situation like schools. There's no apologies either. It's really poor.

Edited by SouthStandDan
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10 hours ago, BIllyD said:

Heard that Derby hospital is struggling to cope under the strain, wonder if some posters still believe it's being exaggerated 😢

ICU are operating at 75% above its normal capacity. 

Numbers in hospital having tested positive is over 400 (includes Burton).

Or so I've heard...

Fighting on.

Edited by JoetheRam
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21 hours ago, maxjam said:

The more liberal the democracy and the more factions we have in society, the higher some countries death tolls.  You can blame the Government for a lot of things but their job has not been made easy by the society we live in.

I touched on this yesterday when I pointed out that the countries faring the worst are some of the biggest liberal democracies

You're spot on that the attitude of society is one of the factors here. We have spent decades happily doing pretty much what we like with fairly minor state intervention (beyond a mostly sensible set of laws) - so when things get draconian in response to an unprecedented crisis, the balanced amongst us think "that sucks, but I can see why we have to do that" and largely comply. But then there is another sizeable part of society who simply don't want to give up their freedoms, and will continue to do what the hell they like (empowered by the fact that we don't live under martial law and therefore they will get away with it 9 times out of 10)

But then the other major factor is that these liberal democracies are governed by the corrupt. Everyone knows that. And we all know that the mechanisms for deciding our government (eg FPTP, electoral college etc)  are archaic and do nothing to help accountability and local represensentation

But then we also know that we are powerless to change that, and there is an unwritten social contract that says we trade our freedoms (mentioned above) in return for accepting corrupt government as "the way it is". To be clear I'm not being partisan here - no matter which party is in charge it's the same.

So when we see the likes of Cummings and all these politicians getting away with things that we're being told not to do, it cements that foundation in people's minds that government is corrupt When we see billions being spent on non-tendered contracts to government cronies who don't deliver...when we see the Home Secretary found by an inquiry to be guilty of workplace bullying but she keeps her job because she "didn't see it as bullying"...you can all fill in dozens more examples going back years. Don't get me started on the lobbying process (which is corrupt by definition)

I suppose the point I am getting to is that corrupt governments have a nasty habit of making decisions that benefit their donors and the people they are in hock to, and not the decsions that benefit the electorate. So the perfect storm ensues - in a pandemic the government make decisions and take actions that reveal their corruption, which empowers society to disobey said government. The unwritten social contract dissolves

Pretty sure there will be books written about the way this pandemic destroyed neoliberal societies so comprehensively

 

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, rad1919 said:

Why is that relevant?

Ask JFK.

Ask Martin Luther King.

Ask Churchill.

Ask Obama.

Ask Hitler maybe (probably don't, he was a bit too good).

Hell, even though I despised the woman, ask Thatcher because she was a brilliant orator.

Even John Major was light years about this clown we have leading the country.

Ask any great world leader who demands respect and loyalty. 

Boris does neither.

That presser sounded like the first night at a new Toastmasters when the bell is going off so many times  because of a lack of eloquence and a reliance on double clutches that people are weeping with ear pain.

It was utterly pathetic. 

It's  also incredibly relevant when the listener cannot focus on the message because he's umming and erring like a schoolboy trying to explain why his exam results suck.

The ability to communicate effectively is ONE of the defining characteristics of a great leader.

Boris is a bumbling fool and he demonstrates that every time he tries to talk.

And remember, the guy has an autocue and still can't pull it off.

 

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52 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

I touched on this yesterday when I pointed out that the countries faring the worst are some of the biggest liberal democracies

You're spot on that the attitude of society is one of the factors here. We have spent decades happily doing pretty much what we like with fairly minor state intervention (beyond a mostly sensible set of laws) - so when things get draconian in response to an unprecedented crisis, the balanced amongst us think "that sucks, but I can see why we have to do that" and largely comply. But then there is another sizeable part of society who simply don't want to give up their freedoms, and will continue to do what the hell they like (empowered by the fact that we don't live under martial law and therefore they will get away with it 9 times out of 10)

But then the other major factor is that these liberal democracies are governed by the corrupt. Everyone knows that. And we all know that the mechanisms for deciding our government (eg FPTP, electoral college etc)  are archaic and do nothing to help accountability and local represensentation

But then we also know that we are powerless to change that, and there is an unwritten social contract that says we trade our freedoms (mentioned above) in return for accepting corrupt government as "the way it is". To be clear I'm not being partisan here - no matter which party is in charge it's the same.

So when we see the likes of Cummings and all these politicians getting away with things that we're being told not to do, it cements that foundation in people's minds that government is corrupt When we see billions being spent on non-tendered contracts to government cronies who don't deliver...when we see the Home Secretary found by an inquiry to be guilty of workplace bullying but she keeps her job because she "didn't see it as bullying"...you can all fill in dozens more examples going back years. Don't get me started on the lobbying process (which is corrupt by definition)

I suppose the point I am getting to is that corrupt governments have a nasty habit of making decisions that benefit their donors and the people they are in hock to, and not the decsions that benefit the electorate. So the perfect storm ensues - in a pandemic the government make decisions and take actions that reveal their corruption, which empowers society to disobey said government. The unwritten social contract dissolves

Pretty sure there will be books written about the way this pandemic destroyed neoliberal societies so comprehensively

 

 

 

 

You should write one of those books - I think you described it very well.

 

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