Chester40 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 11 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: Resignation? We can dream. I'm guessing lots of charts carefully chosen to prove they have done everything correctly. I'll give it a swerve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 12 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: Resignation? I've got him down for March, but he certainly looked not at all well yesterday in his role as the harbinger of doom. Very fraught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Just now, maxjam said: How were the Government responsible for the BLM riots? Political sensitivities saw the police retreat rather than break them up. Likewise, what about the thousands of people packed onto beaches in the summer or Oxford Street before Christmas etc. We police by consent in this country there is literally nothing the Police (and therefore the Government) could do to break up thousands upon thousands of people massed together other than keep us in total lockdown for the best part of a year - their alternative was the tier system and social distancing but people simply abused that. The more liberal the democracy and the more factions we have in society, the higher some countries death tolls. You can blame the Government for a lot of things but their job has not been made easy by the society we live in. The BLM protests are a difficult one because the scale of the issue was seen by many of the protesters as large enough to risk inflating the Covid case figures. But could the government have dealt with it differently? Maybe showing a different type of leadership could have convinced some of the protesters that the risks of covid were higher than the benefits of the protests. Probably not, I accept (I threw that one in as some people do raise it as criticism of those who are anti-government daring to say that the response was inadequate). But the government could have done anything they wanted. Talks with prominent people in the movement to agree a plan to address the main issues. Troops on the street to suppress the protesters. Whatever they wanted. It may be that the best thing they could have done is what they did. But it was their call, their decision - and they are responsible for the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyp Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 51 minutes ago, maxjam said: I expect we will be hearing from Mr Sunak about how much more money they are going to give out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 12 minutes ago, GboroRam said: The BLM protests are a difficult one because the scale of the issue was seen by many of the protesters as large enough to risk inflating the Covid case figures. But could the government have dealt with it differently? Maybe showing a different type of leadership could have convinced some of the protesters that the risks of covid were higher than the benefits of the protests. Probably not, I accept (I threw that one in as some people do raise it as criticism of those who are anti-government daring to say that the response was inadequate). But the government could have done anything they wanted. Talks with prominent people in the movement to agree a plan to address the main issues. Troops on the street to suppress the protesters. Whatever they wanted. It may be that the best thing they could have done is what they did. But it was their call, their decision - and they are responsible for the results. Without getting to political, I think there would have been carnage if the largely white Tories deployed armed police/troops to suppress BLM riots - they had to back off and let it run its course. Similarly, imo they would have received widespread social rebellion if they had prevented people from packing the beaches or Christmas shopping. We are just to much of a diverse freedom loving country to submit to overly authoritarian control - things literally have to get 'that bad' before people take notice and willingly comply. Even now, as things are apparently on the verge of spiralling out of control again there is still resistance. Coming down too hard on various groups has every likelihood of causing an adverse reaction and making things worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 14 minutes ago, maxjam said: Without getting to political, I think there would have been carnage if the largely white Tories deployed armed police/troops to suppress BLM riots - they had to back off and let it run its course. Similarly, imo they would have received widespread social rebellion if they had prevented people from packing the beaches or Christmas shopping. We are just to much of a diverse freedom loving country to submit to overly authoritarian control - things literally have to get 'that bad' before people take notice and willingly comply. Even now, as things are apparently on the verge of spiralling out of control again there is still resistance. Coming down too hard on various groups has every likelihood of causing an adverse reaction and making things worse. I do agree, in the main. But why are we resisting control measures that are in place to stop the virus spiralling out of control? What key message hasn't been properly got across to the population? Other countries have managed to bring the population with them, rather than pitch confused, non-intuitive rules on everyone - I think that's largely behind the failures. Same with safety of vaccines - I don't think anyone is saying no innoculation will cause zero harm to any patient. We fail to be transparent, and we have too large a group of disinformation suppliers prepared to object to the most sensible of measures in fear, or in mistrust of any rules that are put upon people. It's a car crash, in honesty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 I think the trouble is that the Government assumes everyone else will follow instructions and behave impeccably. They don't. Politicians don't, members of the public don't, NHS workers don't. It's hard to know whether this is down to ignorance or other factors. Take the following example: My friend's dad (in his 90s) was admitted to Derby hospital on Saturday evening after passing out at home. Tests were carried out including a COVID test, which came back positive. He had been vaccinated two weeks ago, was expecting his second jab later this week, but obviously isn't immune in the meantime. He had a temperature but no other COVID symptoms so was deemed okay to send home. They sent him home in a shared ambulance with several other patients. His daughter lives in Kent and his son in France and they knew nothing of this until after he returned home and he rang them to say his carer is having to self isolate so he now has no support for ten days. This is just one example and there are any number of issues. But resources are stretched so thinly, and people are just trying to do the best they can in very difficult circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 9 minutes ago, GboroRam said: I do agree, in the main. But why are we resisting control measures that are in place to stop the virus spiralling out of control? What key message hasn't been properly got across to the population? Other countries have managed to bring the population with them, rather than pitch confused, non-intuitive rules on everyone - I think that's largely behind the failures. Same with safety of vaccines - I don't think anyone is saying no innoculation will cause zero harm to any patient. We fail to be transparent, and we have too large a group of disinformation suppliers prepared to object to the most sensible of measures in fear, or in mistrust of any rules that are put upon people. It's a car crash, in honesty. I dunno why do people like Piers Corbyn exist? I honestly think a large part of it has to do with censorship. Even today Talk Radio have been banned from youtube for giving lockdown skeptics a platform ? It started with the real conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones but has now progressed to the point where main stream alternative opinions are being shutdown - and whilst on the one hand you may applaud only hearing from sources backing the official narrative, if you aren't even allowed to hear the alternative (and debunk them where necessary) it simply leads to further mistrust and increase resistance to following the rules. Healthy debate would have prevented some of the mistrust imo, but thats probably best left to another thread. On another forum ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 1 hour ago, GboroRam said: I do agree, in the main. But why are we resisting control measures that are in place to stop the virus spiralling out of control? What key message hasn't been properly got across to the population? Other countries have managed to bring the population with them, rather than pitch confused, non-intuitive rules on everyone - I think that's largely behind the failures. Same with safety of vaccines - I don't think anyone is saying no innoculation will cause zero harm to any patient. We fail to be transparent, and we have too large a group of disinformation suppliers prepared to object to the most sensible of measures in fear, or in mistrust of any rules that are put upon people. It's a car crash, in honesty. I totaly disagree with you on your comment about too large a group of disinformation spreaders,,, I really don’t think you grasp the gravity of that language and rhetoric and the mistrust it breeds in the government and the media ,the indiscriminate scramble to censor anything that questions the official line in my view is right up there in the list of reasons that many ordinary people in the street feel the need to count they’re fingers after shaking hands with boris and his ilk , I know as a 60 year old man that if I’m told I’m not allowed to hear an alternative view on things that have massive bearing on my life and the lives of my family then I bloody well want to hear it but hey ho it comes along with this new fangled deplatforming society =================== sorry max jam , posted in reply before seeing your reply , wouldn’t have bothered as you said what I felt needed saying and got it across better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Deaths after Pfizer vaccinations in Iceland stand at 4 now. There is very little about it, except our health minister responding to questions on the matter. Her stance is that there is nothing that indicates any connection between the deaths and receiving the vaccine. i will leave the local link, so as @Eddie can brush up on his Icelandic. https://www.visir.is/g/20212057145d/hefur-ekki-a-hyggjur-af-thvi-ad-til-kynningarnar-faeli-folk-fra-bolu-setningu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob The Badger Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 8 hours ago, Tamworthram said: So this, even though it’s just word, would have made you feel much better than feeling sickened? If so, fair enough, if it makes some people feel better whilst not actually changing anything so be it. I like your first and final paragraphs but would leave out the middle one. Of course you would do that because you're clearly a Tory even though you don't want to admit it to the extent of pretending that you have no allegiance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob The Badger Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 4 hours ago, ariotofmyown said: Resignation? After 5 months trying to get a house in Cornwall we got an offer accepted today, so I doubt this day could get any better. So, I highly doubt things could get any better. He's probably going to announce Derby are thought responsible for Covid-19 and his new advisor, Steve Gibson, will be investigating the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 23 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said: Of course you would do that because you're clearly a Tory even though you don't want to admit it to the extent of pretending that you have no allegiance. Thanks for clearing up my political allegiance for me, I have been confused for some time. Now I know I'm a Tory at least I'll know not to applaud a labour leader again? In my naivety I would love to see a more mature attitude from both sides of the house (there isn't much that's more pathetic than how both sides behave during PM's question time) hence why I liked your first and final paragraphs. To paraphrase: we support the government with these measures at this time of national emergency but make no mistake we intend to hold the government to account. I just don't see that your middle paragraph added any value at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EtoileSportiveDeDerby Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 5 hours ago, maxjam said: Eat out to help out anouncement, oh wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob The Badger Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 If Johnson was on a sponsored talk getting £10 for every time he said 'er' world poverty would be wiped out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 2 percent of the population have it right now. When you take into account 9 months of infections, those that have had it and never knew etc.....we must be well on the way to herd immunity. Current estimates are well above a million a week. Estimates were 100,000 a day back in March. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 2 hours ago, ramit said: Deaths after Pfizer vaccinations in Iceland stand at 4 now. There is very little about it, except our health minister responding to questions on the matter. Her stance is that there is nothing that indicates any connection between the deaths and receiving the vaccine. i will leave the local link, so as @Eddie can brush up on his Icelandic. https://www.visir.is/g/20212057145d/hefur-ekki-a-hyggjur-af-thvi-ad-til-kynningarnar-faeli-folk-fra-bolu-setningu Piss off. It took me years to learn how to pronounce eyjafjallajokull - I'm quitting while I'm ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 30 minutes ago, Norman said: 2 percent of the population have it right now. When you take into account 9 months of infections, those that have had it and never knew etc.....we must be well on the way to herd immunity. Current estimates are well above a million a week. Estimates were 100,000 a day back in March. Not really. It takes 3-4 weeks for the infection to run its course - so we probably need another 2-3 years of moronic behaviour until we reach that stage, assuming no second round of infections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIllyD Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 7 hours ago, GboroRam said: "The response has been entirely Boris and his chums. Can't pin it on anyone else. Every failing that has happened in this country is down to their decisions." I thought it was obvious from the context but I will clarify, they make the decisions, they have to stand by them. If they make bad decisions, they have to own them. The state of the country is entirely on them. If people aren't listening, they aren't getting the message across correctly. I have previously said that I don't blame the government for everything, but I do blame them for the response. Well that's where we will have to differ, holding the government responsible for not maintaining social distancing for example is not something I would blame them for. The message was clear and is still clear for me, not very difficult to understand, if people didn't understand it they couldn't have done a lot more than they have. Could have turned the country into a dictatorship I suppose, maybe that would have worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 13 minutes ago, BIllyD said: Well that's where we will have to differ, holding the government responsible for not maintaining social distancing for example is not something I would blame them for. The message was clear and is still clear for me, not very difficult to understand, if people didn't understand it they couldn't have done a lot more than they have. Could have turned the country into a dictatorship I suppose, maybe that would have worked. The fact that I could have predicted the posters that would say that any message given by the Government was hard to understand or unclear is quite telling. Whether it was down to their political leanings or my perception of their intelligence is unclear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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