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12 minutes ago, maxjam said:

I don’t know if the supply chains have stayed open or not, or even if the aid workers have managed to continue in their work. I wonder if we have any newer information on this. I know BIll Gates was asking Bojo not to reduce the international aid budget. 

I’ve done a fair bit of humanitarian work through my job, normally immediately after a natural disaster or war. Some of the stuff I have seen is pretty horrific. The things people do to obtain food, also unfortunately the things people do to control the distribution of food. 

 

12 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Prof Sunetra Gupta was her name.

Thats the prof I was talking about, thanks. 

 

12 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Yes it was a starting point for discussion and despite the highly qualified authors and thousands upon thousands of other such cosignatories it was ridiculed in the media for a number of fake names amongst the 175k+ supporting the Declaration. 

The Wiki for it is here and details a long list of pro's and con's;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Barrington_Declaration

Again, I am not stating that it is the answer - but it may have been a good starting point for a debate.

Unfortunately we didn’t have the testing capability to even consider it viable at the time. It fell at the first hurdle. 

Maybe going forward as the situation evolves we will consider other aspects of the paper. I hope so, it would be pretty dire if we cocked up anymore than we already have.

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Please could someone wake me up when this thread is anything other than one poster who never ever ever ever ever posts anything about Derby County, yet somehow spends at least 60 hours a week on a DCFC forum purely & endlessly arguing the toss about the coronavirus, repeatedly going over the same 4-5 points and forensically analysing people's opinions to the degree that he's lost all sense of personality, all the while damning anyone who seemingly hasn't devoted their entire adult life to winning internet arguments and doesn't have time to put together three thousand character responses to every single goddamn post?

I mean, it's sort of impressive, and I genuinely bow down to and am in awe of his prowess and dedication to the cause, but also his 'killing' of other posters' arguments is stretched to the point where his posts effectively (and quite suitably) act as a chloroform soaked mask held against the mouth and nose for 8 hours at a time. Not just him tbf, but the whole thread - rather than encouraging proper debate it's now acting as a deterrent to any reasonable conversation and putting people off posting.

Who even is Albert? Why exactly did he join this forum? Is it an alias? Who knows? Surely the main reason anyone is here is because of Derby County? Yet there's nothing, nothing to suggest that's why he's here? What's the end goal? What's the point in all of this?

If it's to inform and educate, it's failing big time, despite any good intentions.

Edited by Coconut
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4 hours ago, Coconut said:

Please could someone wake me up when this thread is anything other than one poster who never ever ever ever ever posts anything about Derby County, yet somehow spends at least 60 hours a week on a DCFC forum purely & endlessly arguing the toss about the coronavirus, repeatedly going over the same 4-5 points and forensically analysing people's opinions to the degree that he's lost all sense of personality, all the while damning anyone who seemingly hasn't devoted their entire adult life to winning internet arguments and doesn't have time to put together three thousand character responses to every single goddamn post?

I mean, it's sort of impressive, and I genuinely bow down to and am in awe of his prowess and dedication to the cause, but also his 'killing' of other posters' arguments is stretched to the point where his posts effectively (and quite suitably) act as a chloroform soaked mask held against the mouth and nose for 8 hours at a time. Not just him tbf, but the whole thread - rather than encouraging proper debate it's now acting as a deterrent to any reasonable conversation and putting people off posting.

Who even is Albert? Why exactly did he join this forum? Is it an alias? Who knows? Surely the main reason anyone is here is because of Derby County? Yet there's nothing, nothing to suggest that's why he's here? What's the end goal? What's the point in all of this?

If it's to inform and educate, it's failing big time, despite any good intentions.

Big yes on the above

there are lots on here I ague/ debate / exchange opinions with that I’m sure we will never agree with BUT I have a sense of who they are and what they are about from varied topics and posts I find myself often agreeing with them on DCFC / football related stuff or the other way round,

from what I can see Albert is here for Covid and Covid only and it feels very much like you describe, to the point where I’ve joked on whether he’s actually an algorithm, ive reached the point where it’s not worth arguing but also by the same token have to put up some kind of resistance as it feels like propaganda and white noise over any differing view off the narrative 

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5 hours ago, Coconut said:

Please could someone wake me up when this thread is anything other than one poster who never ever ever ever ever posts anything about Derby County, yet somehow spends at least 60 hours a week on a DCFC forum purely & endlessly arguing the toss about the coronavirus, repeatedly going over the same 4-5 points and forensically analysing people's opinions to the degree that he's lost all sense of personality, all the while damning anyone who seemingly hasn't devoted their entire adult life to winning internet arguments and doesn't have time to put together three thousand character responses to every single goddamn post?

I mean, it's sort of impressive, and I genuinely bow down to and am in awe of his prowess and dedication to the cause, but also his 'killing' of other posters' arguments is stretched to the point where his posts effectively (and quite suitably) act as a chloroform soaked mask held against the mouth and nose for 8 hours at a time. Not just him tbf, but the whole thread - rather than encouraging proper debate it's now acting as a deterrent to any reasonable conversation and putting people off posting.

Who even is Albert? Why exactly did he join this forum? Is it an alias? Who knows? Surely the main reason anyone is here is because of Derby County? Yet there's nothing, nothing to suggest that's why he's here? What's the end goal? What's the point in all of this?

If it's to inform and educate, it's failing big time, despite any good intentions.

And has never once, as far as I can see, conceded that an alternate poster might actually have a point on anything. 
Bores the hell out of me. 

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2020/nov/24/qantas-boss-says-all-international-travellers-on-airline-will-have-to-have-vaccination

Qantas CEO saying you have to have a Covid vaccination to be able to fly international flights with them. Wonder if this is the first of many or there will be too much of a backlash for others to follow. 

What are peoples thoughts on this. I can see why they are doing it but not sure I agree with it. 

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5 hours ago, Coconut said:

Please could someone wake me up when this thread is anything other than one poster who never ever ever ever ever posts anything about Derby County, yet somehow spends at least 60 hours a week on a DCFC forum purely & endlessly arguing the toss about the coronavirus, repeatedly going over the same 4-5 points and forensically analysing people's opinions to the degree that he's lost all sense of personality, all the while damning anyone who seemingly hasn't devoted their entire adult life to winning internet arguments and doesn't have time to put together three thousand character responses to every single goddamn post?

I mean, it's sort of impressive, and I genuinely bow down to and am in awe of his prowess and dedication to the cause, but also his 'killing' of other posters' arguments is stretched to the point where his posts effectively (and quite suitably) act as a chloroform soaked mask held against the mouth and nose for 8 hours at a time. Not just him tbf, but the whole thread - rather than encouraging proper debate it's now acting as a deterrent to any reasonable conversation and putting people off posting.

Who even is Albert? Why exactly did he join this forum? Is it an alias? Who knows? Surely the main reason anyone is here is because of Derby County? Yet there's nothing, nothing to suggest that's why he's here? What's the end goal? What's the point in all of this?

If it's to inform and educate, it's failing big time, despite any good intentions.

You are right and its not just Albert.

Its like war and peace sometimes, just doesnt seem the right platform for the type of debate.

Yesterday more great news about vaccines and its just lost amongst the lengthy debates, we had 2 pages on how much tax businesses pay, whats that got to do with Coronavirus?

I tried to start the other thread which would avoid these debates but it died a death, i guess people either have nothing to say or it was too late and people have been put off venturing into the Jim Smith room by this thread.

Its a shame as its something thats affecting all of us, most of is are having personal issues of some sort, be it lockdown, job concerns, not seeing family, even not getting on holiday and so on, but its just not something that you can discuss because it gets swamped. At least when this thread was a pseudo politics thread the posts were generally short so other posts didnt quite get lost in the same way, now you have a whole page taken up by one or two posts.

 

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3 minutes ago, Cardinal said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2020/nov/24/qantas-boss-says-all-international-travellers-on-airline-will-have-to-have-vaccination

Qantas CEO saying you have to have a Covid vaccination to be able to fly international flights with them. Wonder if this is the first of many or there will be too much of a backlash for others to follow. 

What are peoples thoughts on this. I can see why they are doing it but not sure I agree with it. 

I suggested this may happen, that vaccines may almost become some sort of immunity passport, either that or proof of being virus free. I did read, albeit in the tabloid media, that it could happen for sporting events etc here, that you would have a QR code on your phone or something similiar to show.

A lot of flights you need to show you are virus free now anyway (through means of a test) so i dont see it being that much different. Seems like its replacing one with another.

As someone who is keen to have the vaccine i think it seems a good idea.

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7 hours ago, jimmyp said:

I don’t know if the supply chains have stayed open or not, or even if the aid workers have managed to continue in their work. I wonder if we have any newer information on this. I know BIll Gates was asking Bojo not to reduce the international aid budget. 

I’ve done a fair bit of humanitarian work through my job, normally immediately after a natural disaster or war. Some of the stuff I have seen is pretty horrific. The things people do to obtain food, also unfortunately the things people do to control the distribution of food.

Its a huge concern.

Regardless of the deaths we are storing up in this country, which by all accounts will be significant, the fallout in poorer nations could be catastrophic especially as countries inevitably slash their foreign aid budgets to boost their own economies.

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6 hours ago, Coconut said:

Please could someone wake me up when this thread is anything other than one poster who never ever ever ever ever posts anything about Derby County, yet somehow spends at least 60 hours a week on a DCFC forum purely & endlessly arguing the toss about the coronavirus, repeatedly going over the same 4-5 points and forensically analysing people's opinions to the degree that he's lost all sense of personality, all the while damning anyone who seemingly hasn't devoted their entire adult life to winning internet arguments and doesn't have time to put together three thousand character responses to every single goddamn post?

I mean, it's sort of impressive, and I genuinely bow down to and am in awe of his prowess and dedication to the cause, but also his 'killing' of other posters' arguments is stretched to the point where his posts effectively (and quite suitably) act as a chloroform soaked mask held against the mouth and nose for 8 hours at a time. Not just him tbf, but the whole thread - rather than encouraging proper debate it's now acting as a deterrent to any reasonable conversation and putting people off posting.

Who even is Albert? Why exactly did he join this forum? Is it an alias? Who knows? Surely the main reason anyone is here is because of Derby County? Yet there's nothing, nothing to suggest that's why he's here? What's the end goal? What's the point in all of this?

If it's to inform and educate, it's failing big time, despite any good intentions.

It takes two to tango. Well, maybe four in this case.

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6 hours ago, Coconut said:

Please could someone wake me up when this thread is anything other than one poster who never ever ever ever ever posts anything about Derby County, yet somehow spends at least 60 hours a week on a DCFC forum purely & endlessly arguing the toss about the coronavirus, repeatedly going over the same 4-5 points and forensically analysing people's opinions to the degree that he's lost all sense of personality, all the while damning anyone who seemingly hasn't devoted their entire adult life to winning internet arguments and doesn't have time to put together three thousand character responses to every single goddamn post?

I mean, it's sort of impressive, and I genuinely bow down to and am in awe of his prowess and dedication to the cause, but also his 'killing' of other posters' arguments is stretched to the point where his posts effectively (and quite suitably) act as a chloroform soaked mask held against the mouth and nose for 8 hours at a time. Not just him tbf, but the whole thread - rather than encouraging proper debate it's now acting as a deterrent to any reasonable conversation and putting people off posting.

Who even is Albert? Why exactly did he join this forum? Is it an alias? Who knows? Surely the main reason anyone is here is because of Derby County? Yet there's nothing, nothing to suggest that's why he's here? What's the end goal? What's the point in all of this?

If it's to inform and educate, it's failing big time, despite any good intentions.

Agree - although I am probably equally as guilty for engaging.

Probably time to back off this thread for a bit, it serves no purpose other than to wind others up.  That and I spent multiple posts defending my use of the number 11 yesterday instead of 11.7 😛

Nice little chat with @jimmyp at the end of day though, I greatly respect the humanitarian work he spoke of.  Whilst its easy to get caught up in our own not insignificant drama the fallout from the pandemic could be truly catastrophic elsewhere in the world.

Anyway... I'm off to check the latest manager odds threads!

Edited by maxjam
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11 hours ago, maxjam said:

Firstly, I took offence at 'Dismissing deaths just because they are largely from the vulnerable in our society is also, to be blunt, simply abhorrent.'  That horrible argument has been thrown around several times on this thread - usually in reply to opening up the economy *whilst* shielding the vulnerable.  No one has ever suggested throwing a section of society under a bus.

It's in response to you consistently downplaying death figures due to the age of the people dying, suggesting they'd have been killed by other means, etc. 

As noted, the concern around your 'shielding' argument is that there's no evidence to suggest it would work, and no working example to call upon. You've not even defined what this would mean or look like in the UK scenario. 

11 hours ago, maxjam said:

Lockdowns have worked so well that we're now stuck in a never-ending tier system until the vaccine is rolled out.  Jobs are being lost and debt is being accumulated at record rates.  Furthermore, we are literally throwing people under a bus - people that would otherwise have probably survived by cancelling Doctors appointments and cancer treatments.  The money we have spent and the lengths we have gone to in protecting the vast majority would have been better targetted at the elderly and vulnerable. 

This is a result of a failed management strategy that declined to control it earlier. A circuit breaker lockdown back in September when it was recommended would likely have avoided this eventuality. At the time you and a few others were saying it wasn't going to get like this... 

As to your comment regarding cancelling appointments, do you have any data to suggest this is actually occurring. The NHS is working to maintain capacity for people who are in critical need. The concern isn't necessarily for them, it's for the missed elective and preventative treatments, which have been cancelled. 

The point you're also ignoring is that 'protecting the vast majority' is protecting the elderly and vulnerable. You're basically advocating for less care for those that need it, and some nebulous, undefined shielding strategy. 

11 hours ago, maxjam said:

All I have been asking for is better conversations and debate around employing a different approach.  Its to late for that now though, with the vaccines the end is hopefully in sight now.  The debates will inevitably come later and we'll probably be better prepared next time.  Or not.

Did you discuss the point?  All I recall is you giving a vague opinion.

Well, we have seen a range of responses around the World. Much as was suggested prior to the pandemic, elimination has been the most successful in protecting lives and livelihoods. It's hard to suggest that other strategies could have worked better on current data. 

11 hours ago, maxjam said:

Yup, we started off comparing the UK and Australia, then you dragged Taiwan, Vietnam and other countries into the argument changing the parameters.

Parameters weren't changed at all. Your argument was that the characteristics of Australia made it possible, but each of the countries discussed are vastly different, all with different characteristics. The point was that it was achievable in all of them despite that. 

11 hours ago, maxjam said:

There are multiple reasons why the UK, much of the EU and US are struggled to deal with covid whilst others have been more successful.  One key reason, and one I tried to bring up over the weekend but the post got removed so I'll briefly sum it up as the differing political situations in certain countries.

This is basically saying that the response failed due to not being able to implement an effective one. Australia, politically, is similar to the UK, however. That said, let's not stray too far into politics. 

11 hours ago, maxjam said:

Other ad hoc arguments that you dismissed included individual countries economies, obesity, life expectancy, geographical location etc.  I make no apology for being concerned about 1m missed mammograms or 75% reduction in cancer referrals - you may not seen their deaths announced on the news every night but I am of the firm believe that they will dwarf the covid numbers.

I too am very concerned about cancelled elective and preventative medicine, which is why I'm such a proponent of elimination strategies. Countries that have never had this issue. For the UK, however, it's the case load that has led to this eventuality, simply 'opening up', and 'shielding the vulnerable' is only going to make that situation worse, as discussed numerous times on here. Just another knock-on effect of the failed response to Covid-19 in the UK, and the people who have pushed so hard against earlier restrictions. 

11 hours ago, maxjam said:

The numbers are bad and no one is is defending the Government or arguing that the situation couldn't have been handled better - but a mild winter and flu season led to there being more people around that were at higher risk of a more deadly strain this year, potentially born out in the fact that the average age of covid victims is above the national life expectancy.

Maybe if we had shielded the elderly better instead of sending them back to care homes...

Back to dismissing deaths I see. We have already discussed this at length. 

11 hours ago, maxjam said:

Really?  You should have said something!  Well the epidemiologists have done such a great job so far that perhaps someone from a related field might bring new ideas to the table.

The epidemiologists weren't listened to, that's the problem. I'm not sure how listening to someone who is unqualified for the role, who made numerous, basic errors in even outlining his argument, is a winning strategy. 

11 hours ago, maxjam said:

I think that the first lockdown was essential, it was a new disease and we had minimal data.  It bought us time over the summer to get a better plan in place.  The tier system and this second lockdown have cost us billions and will cripple us financially for decades, in an attempt at shielding everyone when a better plan would have been to keep people in jobs, the economy moving and focus any shielding on the vulnerable.

A better plan was to let this burn out of control, despite it causing damage to society that you yourself are complaining about, like the issue around preventative and elective medicine? Seriously? 

You keep saying 'shield the vulnerable'. Outline for us how this would work, and give us an example of a country that has successfully achieved this with a high case load elsewhere. 

12 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Can you link me to the data which shows capacity was reached leading to patients being turned away and not treated please.

Did I say capacity was reached? 

Elective procedures were indeed cancelled to allow greater capacity. It seems you're trying to play your 'gotcha' game again, rather than actually engage in the discussion. 

11 hours ago, Archied said:

More strictly programmed robotic responses , 

you never did respond to whether you had military connections or background

I don't recall you ever asking if I had military connections. I do not. 

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1 minute ago, Albert said:

It's in response to you consistently downplaying death figures due to the age of the people dying, suggesting they'd have been killed by other means, etc. 

As noted, the concern around your 'shielding' argument is that there's no evidence to suggest it would work, and no working example to call upon. You've not even defined what this would mean or look like in the UK scenario. 

This is a result of a failed management strategy that declined to control it earlier. A circuit breaker lockdown back in September when it was recommended would likely have avoided this eventuality. At the time you and a few others were saying it wasn't going to get like this... 

As to your comment regarding cancelling appointments, do you have any data to suggest this is actually occurring. The NHS is working to maintain capacity for people who are in critical need. The concern isn't necessarily for them, it's for the missed elective and preventative treatments, which have been cancelled. 

The point you're also ignoring is that 'protecting the vast majority' is protecting the elderly and vulnerable. You're basically advocating for less care for those that need it, and some nebulous, undefined shielding strategy. 

Well, we have seen a range of responses around the World. Much as was suggested prior to the pandemic, elimination has been the most successful in protecting lives and livelihoods. It's hard to suggest that other strategies could have worked better on current data. 

Parameters weren't changed at all. Your argument was that the characteristics of Australia made it possible, but each of the countries discussed are vastly different, all with different characteristics. The point was that it was achievable in all of them despite that. 

This is basically saying that the response failed due to not being able to implement an effective one. Australia, politically, is similar to the UK, however. That said, let's not stray too far into politics. 

I too am very concerned about cancelled elective and preventative medicine, which is why I'm such a proponent of elimination strategies. Countries that have never had this issue. For the UK, however, it's the case load that has led to this eventuality, simply 'opening up', and 'shielding the vulnerable' is only going to make that situation worse, as discussed numerous times on here. Just another knock-on effect of the failed response to Covid-19 in the UK, and the people who have pushed so hard against earlier restrictions. 

Back to dismissing deaths I see. We have already discussed this at length. 

The epidemiologists weren't listened to, that's the problem. I'm not sure how listening to someone who is unqualified for the role, who made numerous, basic errors in even outlining his argument, is a winning strategy. 

A better plan was to let this burn out of control, despite it causing damage to society that you yourself are complaining about, like the issue around preventative and elective medicine? Seriously? 

You keep saying 'shield the vulnerable'. Outline for us how this would work, and give us an example of a country that has successfully achieved this with a high case load elsewhere. 

Did I say capacity was reached? 

Elective procedures were indeed cancelled to allow greater capacity. It seems you're trying to play your 'gotcha' game again, rather than actually engage in the discussion. 

I don't recall you ever asking if I had military connections. I do not. 

 

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As much as Boris has blundered his way through things, I actually thought he was the most leaderish I've seen him last night. Once you get past the "squeeze the disease", he struck the right tone with the cautious optimism and plea for people not to get carried away.

Just a shame he's surrounded by clowns and leeches which will undermine the message.

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6 hours ago, Coconut said:

Please could someone wake me up when this thread is anything other than one poster who never ever ever ever ever posts anything about Derby County, yet somehow spends at least 60 hours a week on a DCFC forum purely & endlessly arguing the toss about the coronavirus, repeatedly going over the same 4-5 points and forensically analysing people's opinions to the degree that he's lost all sense of personality, all the while damning anyone who seemingly hasn't devoted their entire adult life to winning internet arguments and doesn't have time to put together three thousand character responses to every single goddamn post?

I mean, it's sort of impressive, and I genuinely bow down to and am in awe of his prowess and dedication to the cause, but also his 'killing' of other posters' arguments is stretched to the point where his posts effectively (and quite suitably) act as a chloroform soaked mask held against the mouth and nose for 8 hours at a time. Not just him tbf, but the whole thread - rather than encouraging proper debate it's now acting as a deterrent to any reasonable conversation and putting people off posting.

Who even is Albert? Why exactly did he join this forum? Is it an alias? Who knows? Surely the main reason anyone is here is because of Derby County? Yet there's nothing, nothing to suggest that's why he's here? What's the end goal? What's the point in all of this?

If it's to inform and educate, it's failing big time, despite any good intentions.

I find this summation interesting. Can I ask, do you actually support the likes of @maxjam posting disinformation videos, without further comment etc? I can get that as arguments evolve, they can get more complicated, with more to read through before understanding them, but ultimately that is the nature of forums. 

As to why I'm here, you could check my history if you wish. I've been a poster on here for a long time, but haven't posted much in recent years, as I've taken a back seat mostly to read. As I'm overseas, there's not really a lot for me to add to the discussion, save for the occasional moment when I get a chance to watch matches lives. 

I used to post far more frequently, mostly around stats, but much like this thread it just became a repetitive case of a few posters following me around telling me that numbers didn't belong in the sport. Wasn't really worth the effort, and I moved on to other pursuits with time, and eventually stopped posting much all together. 

As to why post on this thread, when I get my teeth sunk into a discussion I tend to just go with it. I have a bit of time in the evenings and occasionally the mornings to respond if I feel like it. That said, it's replaced some of the time I'd read other threads. 

As to 'inform and educate', ultimately, some people have their head in the sand, and will stay that way. The original point was to point out some errors, but the discussion has evolved to focus on whether I'm a bot, or when I go to bed, so that's interesting. 

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4 minutes ago, tinman said:

As much as Boris has blundered his way through things, I actually thought he was the most leaderish I've seen him last night. Once you get past the "squeeze the disease", he struck the right tone with the cautious optimism and plea for people not to get carried away.

Just a shame he's surrounded by clowns and leeches which will undermine the message.

I didn't watch it but some of the new rules seem to make a bit more sense now, especially addressing the ludicrous situation of cinemas and theatres open, but outdoor sports venues closed to spectators. All pubs not having the same kicking out time too, with an hour to finish up. They also actually said what metrics would be used for setting the tiers.  Setting this out until March suggests at something like a plan too, hopefully with some light at the end of the tunnel.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Cummings has gone and there now seems to be some logic and explanation too.  I read one article by a former special advisor and his regime sounded appalling. When the inquiries do come, I imagine it will blame Cummings for much of the botched response. Why he was allowed to wield so much power in a democracy is slightly scary though.

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18 minutes ago, tinman said:

As much as Boris has blundered his way through things, I actually thought he was the most leaderish I've seen him last night. Once you get past the "squeeze the disease", he struck the right tone with the cautious optimism and plea for people not to get carried away.

Just a shame he's surrounded by clowns and leeches which will undermine the message.

I did muster a giggle at 'Tis the season to be Jolly Careful'

 

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6 hours ago, Coconut said:

Please could someone wake me up when this thread is anything other than one poster who never ever ever ever ever posts anything about Derby County, yet somehow spends at least 60 hours a week on a DCFC forum purely & endlessly arguing the toss about the coronavirus, repeatedly going over the same 4-5 points and forensically analysing people's opinions to the degree that he's lost all sense of personality, all the while damning anyone who seemingly hasn't devoted their entire adult life to winning internet arguments and doesn't have time to put together three thousand character responses to every single goddamn post?

I mean, it's sort of impressive, and I genuinely bow down to and am in awe of his prowess and dedication to the cause, but also his 'killing' of other posters' arguments is stretched to the point where his posts effectively (and quite suitably) act as a chloroform soaked mask held against the mouth and nose for 8 hours at a time. Not just him tbf, but the whole thread - rather than encouraging proper debate it's now acting as a deterrent to any reasonable conversation and putting people off posting.

Who even is Albert? Why exactly did he join this forum? Is it an alias? Who knows? Surely the main reason anyone is here is because of Derby County? Yet there's nothing, nothing to suggest that's why he's here? What's the end goal? What's the point in all of this?

If it's to inform and educate, it's failing big time, despite any good intentions.

Interestingly, thats my life at the moment- well 4 days a week.  Can't see the Christmas release that's planned for shopping pandemonium and mixing households will stop me having to do that anytime soon.  Personally getting rather fed up with it now. It's like washing a dog down, then letting it out in a field to roll in mud and poo straight after.

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8 minutes ago, Albert said:

I find this summation interesting. Can I ask, do you actually support the likes of @maxjam posting disinformation videos, without further comment etc? I can get that as arguments evolve, they can get more complicated, with more to read through before understanding them, but ultimately that is the nature of forums. 

As to why I'm here, you could check my history if you wish. I've been a poster on here for a long time, but haven't posted much in recent years, as I've taken a back seat mostly to read. As I'm overseas, there's not really a lot for me to add to the discussion, save for the occasional moment when I get a chance to watch matches lives. 

I used to post far more frequently, mostly around stats, but much like this thread it just became a repetitive case of a few posters following me around telling me that numbers didn't belong in the sport. Wasn't really worth the effort, and I moved on to other pursuits with time, and eventually stopped posting much all together. 

As to why post on this thread, when I get my teeth sunk into a discussion I tend to just go with it. I have a bit of time in the evenings and occasionally the mornings to respond if I feel like it. That said, it's replaced some of the time I'd read other threads. 

As to 'inform and educate', ultimately, some people have their head in the sand, and will stay that way. The original point was to point out some errors, but the discussion has evolved to focus on whether I'm a bot, or when I go to bed, so that's interesting. 

Detail is boring mate. We just want simple opinions and slogans...

"Look, we just have to live with the disease, there is nothing we can do to stop it. Protect the vulnerable and let's just get back to normal. Then we'll get herd immunity. Some people will die yeah, but loads more die every year of the flu. For nearly everyone, Covid is no worse than the common cold and anyway, why have we stopped hospitals doing their normal work. Loads more people will die if our economy crashes vs the number that Covid kills. We don't ban cars do we, but people still die in traffic accidents yeah? Besides, I don't know anyone who has had a positive test, let alone die, and you can't believe what the media tell you. They caused all this. And those so-called experts with their predictions of what will happen, give me strength."

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