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22 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Telling the local mayor live on air that you're not going to give them any cash after you've forced them to lockdown is pretty damn incompetent. Burnham wanted financial support for Manchester, he's doing what he was elected to do, looking after his city. Shameful from the government.

And threatening to revolt unless the claimed size of aid isn’t forthcoming ? Same stuff .. Goose and Ganders 
 

fight your corner yes, I’d be right behind him but play poker as he has been doing ? No thanks

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2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

So you think a Labour politician calling the scientists behind the Grear Barrington Declaration crackpot is fine

You lose my dressing room when you mention the Great Barrington Declaration. 

The Lancet, you know the world's oldest and best-known peer-reviewed general medical journal?

They said it was "a dangerous fallacy unsupported by scientific evidence"

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32153-X/fulltext

So I'll leave that one there. I'll read peer-reviewed medical journals - and you carry on listening to the gossip columnist's Talk Radio show 😀

We're not really on the same intellectual page are we?

 

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9 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

You lose my dressing room when you mention the Great Barrington Declaration. 

The Lancet, you know the world's oldest and best-known peer-reviewed general medical journal?

They said it was "a dangerous fallacy unsupported by scientific evidence"

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32153-X/fulltext

So I'll leave that one there. I'll read peer-reviewed medical journals - and you carry on listening to the gossip columnist's Talk Radio show 😀

We're not really on the same intellectual page are we?

 

On 9 October 2020, several media outlets reported that dozens of obviously bogus names were among the then 175,000 signatures of support for the declaration, including "Mr Banana Rama", "Dr Johnny Fartpants", "Dr Person Fakename", "Harold Shipman", "Professor Notaf Uckingclue", and "Prof Cominic Dummings".[34][35][36] More than 100 psychotherapists, numerous homeopaths, physiotherapists, massage therapists, and other non-relevant people were found to be signatories, including a performer of Khoomei – a Mongolian style of overtone singing – described as a "therapeutic sound practitioner".

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27 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

You lose my dressing room when you mention the Great Barrington Declaration. 

The Lancet, you know the world's oldest and best-known peer-reviewed general medical journal?

They said it was "a dangerous fallacy unsupported by scientific evidence"

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32153-X/fulltext

So I'll leave that one there. I'll read peer-reviewed medical journals - and you carry on listening to the gossip columnist's Talk Radio show 😀

We're not really on the same intellectual page are we?the 

Sorry for the late response, been watching the match.

Not really on here to question the intellect of other posters that I know nothing about, I'm 41 years old not 12.

Just for for reference though, if I was assessing other posters intellect, I pay more attention to posters that read/listen to a variety of views and form an educated opinion, rather than those that read/listen to what they want to hear.

Re the Great Barrington Declaration, well it's unlikely to be supported by scientific evidence given that we've not been in this situation before.

One piece of scientific evidence that we do have though is that a lockdown in this country has not succeeded in anything other than kicking the can down the road whilst harming the economy and leading to an increase in non Covid related deaths.

Enjoy reading The Lancet, I'm off to watch the second half.

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32 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

On 9 October 2020, several media outlets reported that dozens of obviously bogus names were among the then 175,000 signatures of support for the declaration, including "Mr Banana Rama", "Dr Johnny Fartpants", "Dr Person Fakename", "Harold Shipman", "Professor Notaf Uckingclue", and "Prof Cominic Dummings".[34][35][36] More than 100 psychotherapists, numerous homeopaths, physiotherapists, massage therapists, and other non-relevant people were found to be signatories, including a performer of Khoomei – a Mongolian style of overtone singing – described as a "therapeutic sound practitioner".

Well I mean that's it then, if there were dozens of bogus signatures among 175,000 then I think it should be completely disregarded 😂😂😂

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26 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Well I mean that's it then, if there were dozens of bogus signatures among 175,000 then I think it should be completely disregarded 😂😂😂

If dozens were fake they weren't vetted when recorded. Yes, some scientists and medical professionals have signed it, but it has all the gravitas of a 175,000 signatory petition on change.org.

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25 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

If dozens were fake they weren't vetted when recorded. Yes, some scientists and medical professionals have signed it, but it has all the gravitas of a 175,000 signatory petition on change.org.

Yeah not very well renowned scientists though so should probably just ignore it and trash our economy instead based on the Sage advice.

Mind you I thought we all decided the Sage advice was no good either after it was revealed that Dominic Cummings was sitting in on the meetings.

It's hard to keep up with who we should be listening to.

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1 hour ago, GboroRam said:

On 9 October 2020, several media outlets reported that dozens of obviously bogus names were among the then 175,000 signatures of support for the declaration, including "Mr Banana Rama", "Dr Johnny Fartpants", "Dr Person Fakename", "Harold Shipman", "Professor Notaf Uckingclue", and "Prof Cominic Dummings".[34][35][36] More than 100 psychotherapists, numerous homeopaths, physiotherapists, massage therapists, and other non-relevant people were found to be signatories, including a performer of Khoomei – a Mongolian style of overtone singing – described as a "therapeutic sound practitioner".

I'd be cautious of writing off work just because of some joke names, though it is worrying that they were so lax in vetting who was actually on their list before reporting the figures. That's very much a funny side point in this all. 

The real issue with the Great Barrington declaration is that it is espousing fringe science, and by our current understanding of the disease, would be extremely dangerous. Most notable, the assumptions underpinning it simply aren't supported at this time, and the primary authors' previous predictions regarding the same subjects have been incorrect on a number of occasions. 

Don't get me wrong, fringe science deservers some focus to allow proper development of all sides of the discussion. Fringe science does indeed often end up becoming the mainstream. You don't gamble people's lives on that being the case though. 

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26 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

If dozens were fake they weren't vetted when recorded. Yes, some scientists and medical professionals have signed it, but it has all the gravitas of a 175,000 signatory petition on change.org.

The whole thing is a sham - a handful of economic scientists and mathematical modellers bending to the wishes of the right-wing economic think-tank that pays them.

It's like the regular papers issued by the tobacco industry in the 1950's and 60's suggesting that there was no ill effects whatsoever from smoking, or the regular drivel from the oil industry in recent years suggesting that climate change is fiction.

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1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

Yeah not very well renowned scientists though so should probably just ignore it and trash our economy instead based on the Sage advice.

Mind you I thought we all decided the Sage advice was no good either after it was revealed that Dominic Cummings was sitting in on the meetings.

It's hard to keep up with who we should be listening to.

The economy is being trashed because advice wasn't listened to, and the gained made by the last lockdowns were squandered. Following the Great Barrington declaration would likely do even more damage to the economy, as sectors of it buckle on the pressure the virus would put on it. 

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8 minutes ago, Albert said:

The economy is being trashed because advice wasn't listened to, and the gained made by the last lockdowns were squandered. Following the Great Barrington declaration would likely do even more damage to the economy, as sectors of it buckle on the pressure the virus would put on it. 

No it isnt. The economy is being trashed because viable businesses are being closed down without any scientific evidence to support the closures.

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41 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

No it isnt. The economy is being trashed because viable businesses are being closed down without any scientific evidence to support the closures.

...are you just using the phrase 'scientific evidence' to add weight to your point here? There most definitely is evidence to support lockdown measures as something that works, that's never been the issue. 

Whether the choices the UK government are making are the best in that regard is a different question of course. 

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Just now, Albert said:

...are you just using the phrase 'scientific evidence' to add weight to your point here? There most definitely is evidence to support lockdown measures as something that works, that's never been the issue. 

Whether the choices the UK government are making are the best in that regard is a different question of course. 

Nope I'm using the phrase scientific evidence as the Government tell us we are being guided by the science. We aren't. 

Example. The business I work for operates a 24 hour adult gaming centre.

We now have to close between 10pm and 5am.

Result, our takings for that site are 40% down and 1 or 2 members of staff are facing redundancy. 

Between the hours of 10pm and 5am customer numbers are 4 or 5 at one time.

We spent tens of thousands on measures making sure the venue is safe, providing masks for customers, perspex sheets between machines, which are cleaned every time someone has finished playing on them.

A business being hampered for absolutely zero effect.

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7 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Nope I'm using the phrase scientific evidence as the Government tell us we are being guided by the science. We aren't. 

Example. The business I work for operates a 24 hour adult gaming centre.

We now have to close between 10pm and 5am.

Result, our takings for that site are 40% down and 1 or 2 members of staff are facing redundancy. 

Between the hours of 10pm and 5am customer numbers are 4 or 5 at one time.

We spent tens of thousands on measures making sure the venue is safe, providing masks for customers, perspex sheets between machines, which are cleaned every time someone has finished playing on them.

A business being hampered for absolutely zero effect.

Let's be honest here, we already know that the UK government have ignored the advice in the past, and I don't think you'd accuse me of being complimentary to the UK government's response overall. 

The issue though is about the inconsistent and ill thought through government response. 

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1 minute ago, Albert said:

Let's be honest here, we already know that the UK government have ignored the advice in the past, and I don't think you'd accuse me of being complimentary to the UK government's response overall. 

The issue though is about the inconsistent and ill thought through government response. 

What sectors of the economy would buckle under the strain of fully re-opening the economy?

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