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1 hour ago, Norman said:

Albert, one day someone in Oz with no symptoms will walk in to a stadium and infect hundreds, rapidly. That will turn into thousands, and most won't have symptoms. The track and trace will be largely pointless. 

It will happen. We were estimated to be at 100k a day infections at the end of March. Our poor testing regime still manged to get 5x as many positives as Australia at this point. 

The virus had gone too far here. Germany did a better job, but still couldn't manage to track and trace a few hundred cases a day when they opened up their economy. Now they are at 8k a day and have no hope of getting that down without more lockdowns.

When Australia are at 250 cases a day (and not in a strict lockdown or about to impose one) , I will listen to their response. But as most don't have symptoms, I'm going to guess you will just be as inept as the rest of us and trying to keep a lid on it without National Lockdowns.

Think that is an interesting point there about what may happen in the future in a place like Australia.

Will their checks and processes be enough to prevent a future surge in infections which forces major lockdowns?

The experiences of places like Japan, NZ, Taiwan, South Korea suggest that it's possible.

In Western Europe the virus was spread everywhere before any action was taken, which now makes the idea of controlling it again almost impossible without more major lockdowns, that will damage the economy even further.

We've shown we are incapable of implementing an effective track and trace system regardless, so another lockdown would probably be a waste of time as infections would just surge again when we open up.

But if we don't lockdown, the bodies will probably pile up again.

It must be possible to have a government who can articulate this dilemma, but I don't think the current regime is in anyway capable of doing this.

 

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49 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

You don't live in Australia either so you have no idea about what is going on there. @Albert will probably say something like they've had only 5 deaths vs ours 50k, but you can "prove" anything with "numbers". It's Team Cummings for me all the way. Did you know he warned about the threat of pandemics on his scarily accurate blogs last year?

There is nothing that other countries can teach us about anything. And as for the so-called World Heath Organisation, I've called them out for the frauds that they are since Day 1, like when they were warning about Covid at the start of the year and that we needed to lockdown asap. Yeah right, we showed them experts!

Dont remember commenting on what was happening in Australia?

I may have said I dont think comparing Australia with Europe doesn't work in my opinion. I think the numbers reflect that but happy for that opinion to be challenged.

If you think the WHO warnings about Covid at the beginning of the year were sufficient then I will respectfully disagree with you.

I dread to think how many cases a day we were at by time their 'warnings' made people sit up and take notice.

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2 hours ago, Albert said:

What reason do you have to say this, apart from wanting a cheap out?

As above. 

There is plenty of debate to be had, you just don't have an argument with any kind of solid basis to go with, so you're more than happy to just skulk off with any excuse you can cobble together. 

If that is what you think, fine.

From reading your posts though that is the opinion I have formed.

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3 hours ago, Albert said:

Again though, my point isn't that Australia's response has been perfect. Far from it, I certainly wouldn't rate it as highly as New Zealand's (which also had a fairly significant cluster a few months back, which they also managed to control). The point is, however, that gaining control, and then using testing and tracing to maintain that, is definitely possible. 

How do you gain control when there are hundreds of thousands of cases and many are asymptomatic. 

In theory your idea sounds great, in reality I think you're living in a dream world.

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23 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

How do you gain control when there are hundreds of thousands of cases and many are asymptomatic. 

In theory your idea sounds great, in reality I think you're living in a dream world.

Short circuit lockdown? 

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1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

A 4 month lockdown failed, how is a 2 week lockdown going to be any different?

It didn't fail to gain control though. You do remember when we had 50k excess deaths right? And when we were getting 1k deaths per day? They weren't great times.

Our glorious leadership managed to waste the time though, giving huge contracts to their incompetent mates.

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34 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

It didn't fail to gain control though. You do remember when we had 50k excess deaths right? And when we were getting 1k deaths per day? They weren't great times.

Our glorious leadership managed to waste the time though, giving huge contracts to their incompetent mates.

So we gained control but you are then criticising the Government.

I think you should try and get your argument straight before posting.

You start off talking about Coronavirus and then resort back to political bashing, even though your two arguments contradict each other.

Maybe stick to posting about one thing at a time?

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2 hours ago, TexasRam said:

Seriously why do you crave a lockdown so much? I think in the UK for whatever reason it’s shown not to have worked, I’m really intrigued why you desire one so much. 

I'm intrigued why you hate the NHS so much that you want to risk it crumbling under the pressure of our normally crazy winter plus an out of control pandemic virus. 

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12 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

So we gained control but you are then criticising the Government.

I think you should try and get your argument straight before posting.

You start off talking about Coronavirus and then resort back to political bashing, even though your two arguments contradict each other.

Maybe stick to posting about one thing at a time?

We lockdown too late.

But lockdown was totally necessary.

But the government failed to put the required things in place to allow for an successful reopening, hence we are back to where we started.

Is that clear enough for you?

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2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

A 4 month lockdown failed, how is a 2 week lockdown going to be any different?

I don't know if the UK could do it, to be honest (that's not to say I don't think it is possible, I just don't think there's the political will).

It would have to be a much tougher 2 week lockdown than the 4 month one was. It would need to be followed up with much better testing, a vast increase of capacity to test almost everyone who has symptoms or comes into contact with someone with a positive test, and far more aggressive tracing. 

It would also need the public to buy into following the rules, which I can't see happening. 

Get used to the current situation, I'd recommend. I don't see any definitive improvement - the economy will be allowed to remain at least partially open, so the virus will remain with us for a long time. No government will throw the NHS to the wolves like we did to case homes. We'll never be able to privatise it later if we did. 

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7 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

We lockdown too late.

But lockdown was totally necessary.

But the government failed to put the required things in place to allow for an successful reopening, hence we are back to where we started.

Is that clear enough for you?

So did we get it under control or not, I'm almost as confused as your argument...

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2 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

I don't know if the UK could do it, to be honest (that's not to say I don't think it is possible, I just don't think there's the political will).

It would have to be a much tougher 2 week lockdown than the 4 month one was. It would need to be followed up with much better testing, a vast increase of capacity to test almost everyone who has symptoms or comes into contact with someone with a positive test, and far more aggressive tracing. 

It would also need the public to buy into following the rules, which I can't see happening. 

Get used to the current situation, I'd recommend. I don't see any definitive improvement - the economy will be allowed to remain at least partially open, so the virus will remain with us for a long time. No government will throw the NHS to the wolves like we did to case homes. We'll never be able to privatise it later if we did. 

I think there is a definite political will for a lockdown, certainly much more than there is a public will.

Regarding the testing, we are supposedly testing 300,000 per day and we are supposedly having 100,000 cases per day so is capacity a major problem?

That's an awful lot of tests on people that dont have it.

I dont think the public will buy into a lockdown again because its already been proved that it doesnt work.

The bit about privatising the NHS is just the usual sort of waffle thrown into these debates for no particular reason.

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17 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

The bit about privatising the NHS is just the usual sort of waffle thrown into these debates for no particular reason.

The NHS is at breaking point every winter, without a pandemic taking up thousands of bed spaces. 

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35 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

I'm intrigued why you hate the NHS so much that you want to risk it crumbling under the pressure of our normally crazy winter plus an out of control pandemic virus. 

Haha those tactics now, a bit like the how many deaths card you like so much. Hate the NHS good one, why would I hate an organisation whom have done so much for my family, friends and is also my wife’s employer? I don’t believe a lockdown will do anything to help the NHS. Anyway you didn’t answer my question? 

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Where does this whole NHS is at breaking point come from? My sister is a GP and her husband is a consultant in a hospital. Neither of them have said its at breaking point. Both are pragmatic about the situation. Both says its what they are trained to do. Both say its hard work at the minute and also its hard work for everyone else as well outside of the NHS. 

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1 minute ago, TexasRam said:

Haha those tactics now, a bit like the how many deaths card you like so much. Hate the NHS good one, why would I hate an organisation whom have done so much for my family, friends and is also my wife’s employer? I don’t believe a lockdown will do anything to help the NHS. Anyway you didn’t answer my question? 

Ahem. 

Seriously why do you crave a lockdown so much? I think in the UK for whatever reason it’s shown not to have worked, I’m really intrigued why you desire one so much. 

Why do think I'm craving a lockdown? Why do you think I desire one? 

Seems to me to be the best of a set of bad options. 

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