1of4 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 42 minutes ago, Van Cone De Head said: Didn’t know anything about it till I was 16,went to Hamburg with my mum and Dad for a holiday which was based around my Dad meeting his fathers family. It was a pretty interesting and unusual trip and emotional for my Dad. https://www.ushmm.org/ This is the site I use most to get info. I had to laugh when I found out I had a great uncle Adolf(really)and he got away. Was he living in Argentina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coneheadjohn Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 20 minutes ago, 1of4 said: Was he living in Argentina They were in London,I’ll explore that at some point. Uncle Adolf(got a ring to it)got away at the start of it all early 30’s I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 What I still fail to understand is why Jews had / have such a stigma attached to them in any case. It was a standard playground insult in the 1960’s if someone was being mean “don’t be a yid, lend me your whatever” I had a Jewish friend, so this kind of disturbed me in a way that you can’t express or understand when your are 9 I guess It stemmed from historic misplaced jealousy and maybe Christian fundamentalism. Jews were inevitably in the financial business because the only assets they could have in the mediaeval world had to be portable in case there was a purge. so if you needed a loan it was probably a Jew who had ready cash/jewels/portable surety. .. but how does this translate to the Holocaust ? . Frightening .. and why I so despise mob culture, social media ranting, fake news, loud mouthed declarers of a so called truth. There are businessmen and power brokers in every field. I know and have known many Jews and they are exactly and precisely the same as everyone else .. except maybe they have an excess of self deprecating good humour. I read somewhere that the unfair terms of the treaty of Versailles bred Hitler. An impoverished nation punished after the first war needed someone to blame. When I hear Trump ranting about Mexicans or the left ranting about Bankers .. it is demonising of a group .. That is how it all starts.... Give the dissatisfied masses something to focus their hate on. Why are some so stupid and gullible ? how do they get away with it ? And keep getting away with it ! ramble over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 24 minutes ago, jono said: What I still fail to understand is why Jews had / have such a stigma attached to them in any case. It was a standard playground insult in the 1960’s if someone was being mean “don’t be a yid, lend me your whatever” I had a Jewish friend, so this kind of disturbed me in a way that you can’t express or understand when your are 9 I guess It stemmed from historic misplaced jealousy and maybe Christian fundamentalism. Jews were inevitably in the financial business because the only assets they could have in the mediaeval world had to be portable in case there was a purge. so if you needed a loan it was probably a Jew who had ready cash/jewels/portable surety. .. but how does this translate to the Holocaust ? . Frightening .. and why I so despise mob culture, social media ranting, fake news, loud mouthed declarers of a so called truth. There are businessmen and power brokers in every field. I know and have known many Jews and they are exactly and precisely the same as everyone else .. except maybe they have an excess of self deprecating good humour. I read somewhere that the unfair terms of the treaty of Versailles bred Hitler. An impoverished nation punished after the first war needed someone to blame. When I hear Trump ranting about Mexicans or the left ranting about Bankers .. it is demonising of a group .. That is how it all starts.... Give the dissatisfied masses something to focus their hate on. Why are some so stupid and gullible ? how do they get away with it ? And keep getting away with it ! ramble over Indeed yes, the capitulation of Germany at the end of WW1 was blamed on "the enemy within" which in Hitlers mind meant Jews, Communists and anyone weak-minded enough to be considered "defeatist". Those years essentially developed his personal antisemitism, but it could have remained personal fringe ravings. What is the true Black Swan event is that Nazi'ism COULD have remained a lunatic fringe party had there not been a banking crisis in the early 1930's. 2 of the 4 "high street" german banks failed - and were not state bailed out - so they worsened an economic recession into the Great Depression. One of these banks - Danatbank - had a Jewish head. So Hitler was able to build a narrative that Jewish bankers were impoverishing German businessmen. And people believed him and that narrative. He was a truly evil man but it could an extreme combination of unlikely events to give him the means. We should be careful to learn from history as we have had arguably a Black Swan economic event of our own......let us fervently hope that nothing goes so badly wrong we start looking for people to blame...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 2 hours ago, Van Cone De Head said: They were in London,I’ll explore that at some point. Uncle Adolf(got a ring to it)got away at the start of it all early 30’s I believe. So you're not really John Cone......more accuratley Yann Coneberg? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 31 minutes ago, jono said: What I still fail to understand is why Jews had / have such a stigma attached to them in any case. For many Christians the Jews were guilty of deicide. For a genuinely religious person, that's naturally a serious allegation and it's a 'crime' that followed the Jewish people down through the centuries. Absurd when you think about it, but it was definitely a factor historically. Also Jewish populations, within whatever country they were living in, tended not to get caught up in any local nationalistic fervour that was sweeping through wherever it was. For some flag-waving hyper nationalists that led them to suspect the Jewish communities of being disloyal or even plotting against the state. Those are two possible reasons beyond what you've already mention. Neither of them remotely justifiable obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said: Indeed yes, the capitulation of Germany at the end of WW1 was blamed on "the enemy within" which in Hitlers mind meant Jews, Communists and anyone weak-minded enough to be considered "defeatist". Those years essentially developed his personal antisemitism, but it could have remained personal fringe ravings. What is the true Black Swan event is that Nazi'ism COULD have remained a lunatic fringe party had there not been a banking crisis in the early 1930's. 2 of the 4 "high street" german banks failed - and were not state bailed out - so they worsened an economic recession into the Great Depression. One of these banks - Danatbank - had a Jewish head. So Hitler was able to build a narrative that Jewish bankers were impoverishing German businessmen. And people believed him and that narrative. He was a truly evil man but it could an extreme combination of unlikely events to give him the means. We should be careful to learn from history as we have had arguably a Black Swan economic event of our own......let us fervently hope that nothing goes so badly wrong we start looking for people to blame...... History is so so important ! As I get older and see news items from time to time .. you become able to recognise patterns and get a sense that if we don’t this right then it’s going to end badly because something similar has happened before. i think our black Swann is a huge thing. It’s a global shift, you can’t attribute it to one party or another It isn’t political,in a left/right sense, it’s just history, shift of power and evolving events. The old west 50/100 years ago which was so wealthy (on Ill gotten gains perhaps ) started being responsible, just, sophisticated and caring. Then other parts of the world caught up financially and technologically, they got their stuff back, they learned other stuff, made their own way and we ran out of money to pay for the decency we have all come to expect. No manufacturing, automation, no cheap resources, competition and growing populations. We live in interesting times. With issues that are more complex and global than our 1950/60 ancestors but more importantly are from a different relative power and position perspective it’s a hairy time at the moment .. and in times like these evil lurks. Extremes get a voice they should not have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 20 minutes ago, Highgate said: For many Christians the Jews were guilty of deicide. For a genuinely religious person, that's naturally a serious allegation and it's a 'crime' that followed the Jewish people down through the centuries. Absurd when you think about it, but it was definitely a factor historically. Also Jewish populations, within whatever country they were living in, tended not to get caught up in any local nationalistic fervour that was sweeping through wherever it was. For some flag-waving hyper nationalists that led them to suspect the Jewish communities of being disloyal or even plotting against the state. Those are two possible reasons beyond what you've already mention. Neither of them remotely justifiable obviously. It’s interesting isn’t it that nationalistic thing.. I have been to a fair few Barmitvahs, weddings and so on, and certainly in the UK there is a particular custom of a Toast to the queen. It was explained to me as a need to say “thanks for having us” and “we will be and are loyal” because of past sufferings elsewhere,which historically squares with your point. and on Deicide .. ironic considering JC was a Jew .. I never worked that one out lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, jono said: It’s interesting isn’t it that nationalistic thing.. I have been to a fair few Barmitvahs, weddings and so on, and certainly in the UK there is a particular custom of a Toast to the queen. It was explained to me as a need to say “thanks for having us” and “we will be and are loyal” because of past sufferings elsewhere,which historically squares with your point. and on Deicide .. ironic considering JC was a Jew .. I never worked that one out lol Definitely a Jew, but literally God as far as the Christians were concerned. Although the fact he was crucified suggests that it was the Romans who did it anyway...given that was their preferred technique of execution. The toast to the Queen is very interesting, I didn't know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 48 minutes ago, Highgate said: Definitely a Jew, but literally God as far as the Christians were concerned. Although the fact he was crucified suggests that it was the Romans who did it anyway...given that was their preferred technique of execution. The toast to the Queen is very interesting, I didn't know that. The queen thing is only my personal experience Across various parts of a familes that were from a mix of Manchester and North London , I wonder if Conehead John can verify ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coneheadjohn Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Van der MoodHoover said: So you're not really John Cone......more accuratley Yann Coneberg? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 will give the programme a watch , may have missed out if not for this topic ,,, with this topic , the Katie Hopkins one and similar debates on free speech ,, there’s a bit of me that kind of feels safer knowing where these loons are and just how barking they can be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kevin Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Don't know how anyone could deny it happened ,programme was a bit naff IMO although a couple of interesting items especially the American Holocaust Memorial inscription . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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